What Drives Success?

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    Jan 28, 2014 2:00 AM GMT
    Three things drive success: (1) a deep sense of inferiority; (2) paradoxically, a superiority complex; and (3) impulse control. This according to a January 25, 2014, the NYT article.

    Comprehensive data published by the Russell Sage Foundation in 2013 showed that the children of Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese immigrants experienced exceptional upward mobility regardless of their parents’ socioeconomic or educational background.

    Take New York City’s selective public high schools like Stuyvesant and Bronx Science, which are major Ivy League feeders. For the 2013 school year, Stuyvesant High School offered admission, based solely on a standardized entrance exam, to nine black students, 24 Hispanics, 177 whites and 620 Asians. Among the Asians of Chinese origin, many are the children of restaurant workers and other working-class immigrants.

    Those who talk of America’s “decline” miss this crucial point. America has always been at its best when it has had to overcome adversity and prove its mettle on the world stage. For better and worse, it has that opportunity again today.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/opinion/sunday/what-drives-success.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0
  • PR_GMR

    Posts: 3831

    Jan 28, 2014 2:09 AM GMT
    That... and those Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese parents give their kids serious ass-whoopings if they don't make their grade. icon_razz.gif
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    Jan 28, 2014 2:13 AM GMT
    The article did report that "Indian-Americans earn almost double the national figure (roughly $90,000 per year in median household income versus $50,000). Iranian-, Lebanese- and Chinese-Americans are also top-earners."
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    Jan 28, 2014 2:17 AM GMT
    The inferiority/superiority complex makes sense, because as a minority, you really have to greatly exceed even the highest expectations. It's not good enough to just be good, you have to be exceptional to get ahead.
  • Adozark

    Posts: 299

    Jan 28, 2014 2:18 AM GMT
    I saw this article the other day.

    I wouldn't say that this is necessarily true, I'm sure that people who have those three will likely be successful, but there are plenty of people who are successful without it.

    Greed is sure a pretty good motivator, or relative poverty.

    Partly relative poverty motivates me. I'm not poor, nor did I grow up in anything close to it, but my job puts me around plenty of people who are very wealthy. They drive exotic cars and take expensive vacations.

    For me this motivates me because wealth seems in reach, I feel like wealth, just like real estate is about location: The closer you are to the source, the more you are likely to have it.

    Though it should be noted that motivation and economic mobility are not one in the same as many people would have you believe.

    That's just my $.02 though. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jan 28, 2014 2:18 AM GMT
    The article also reported that certain African Americans do better than Asians:

    "There are some black and Hispanic groups in America that far outperform some white and Asian groups. Immigrants from many West Indian and African countries, such as Jamaica, Ghana, and Haiti, are climbing America’s higher education ladder, but perhaps the most prominent are Nigerians. Nigerians make up less than 1 percent of the black population in the United States, yet in 2013 nearly one-quarter of the black students at Harvard Business School were of Nigerian ancestry; over a fourth of Nigerian-Americans have a graduate or professional degree, as compared with only about 11 percent of whites."
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    Jan 28, 2014 2:54 AM GMT
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    Jan 28, 2014 2:56 AM GMT
    ^Funny!. The article said about Asian parents:

    "A central finding in a study of more than 5,000 immigrants’ children led by the sociologist Rubén G. Rumbaut was how frequently the kids felt “motivated to achieve” because of an acute sense of obligation to redeem their parents’ sacrifices. Numerous studies, including in-depth field work conducted by the Harvard sociologist Vivian S. Louie, reveal Chinese immigrant parents frequently imposing exorbitant academic expectations on their children (“Why only a 99?”), making them feel that “family honor” depends on their success."
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    Jan 28, 2014 9:02 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidThree things drive success: (1) a deep sense of inferiority; (2) paradoxically, a superiority complex; and (3) impulse control. This according to a January 25, 2014, the NYT article.

    Comprehensive data published by the Russell Sage Foundation in 2013 showed that the children of Chinese, Korean and Vietnamese immigrants experienced exceptional upward mobility regardless of their parents’ socioeconomic or educational background.

    Take New York City’s selective public high schools like Stuyvesant and Bronx Science, which are major Ivy League feeders. For the 2013 school year, Stuyvesant High School offered admission, based solely on a standardized entrance exam, to nine black students, 24 Hispanics, 177 whites and 620 Asians. Among the Asians of Chinese origin, many are the children of restaurant workers and other working-class immigrants.

    Those who talk of America’s “decline” miss this crucial point. America has always been at its best when it has had to overcome adversity and prove its mettle on the world stage. For better and worse, it has that opportunity again today.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/26/opinion/sunday/what-drives-success.html?src=me&ref=general&_r=0


    Whether Asian or not, these individuals have little to no capacity to create and sustain a civilization much like the vast majority of white persons in this country. They are simply taking advantage of legacies, infrastructures, systems, institutions, etc, etc, created by other people long ago who don't really exist anymore, and are simply gaming economic opportunities for their own benefit because they know how and can work diligently towards that knowledge. They also work in industries built on artificial scarcities and inefficiencies which they do nothing to end, and they perpetuate such things as they are likely as incompetent as the people who made things that way to begin with. Diligence and earning capacity should never be confused for actual productivity, and the gall of such people to judge others who don't make as much as they do, is unbecoming of anyone who thinks they deserve respect. And these people are as driven by pain and pleasure much like most people in this country are, it's just that they have other things that get them off (for example, with many Asians it is status) than what others here can get off by (like sex). The day I see such persons of such backgrounds create large scale enterprises out of nowhere en masse (among other things), is the day where admiration and respect must be given, but that day is likely never to come.
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    Jan 28, 2014 9:26 AM GMT
    Hm interesting, I read an article a long time ago kinda stating this. In the US, Jews and Asian-Americans are seen to be the **top model minorities who achieved the highest rate of success. Reason being, these 2 communities been through so much in their native land. That's why they strive super hard to achieve great success here. Jews endure the WWII/Holocaust effect and most Asian communities (Korean, Chinese, Viet, Japanese) endure the WWII, Korean, Vietnam war effects!!! So yeah, I agreed with most of that article. Once you've seen enough pain in your past, there's no way to go but up !!! And also to add more into it, Asian families have a very strict upbringing and focus a lot on Education. (Same thing with Jews families too).
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    Jan 28, 2014 10:55 AM GMT
    Success is a fairly subjective term, isn't it?
    What if I'm perfectly happy living in a bath tub in the street? Am I still successful?
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    Jan 28, 2014 11:13 AM GMT
    Ajjax saidSuccess is a fairly subjective term, isn't it?
    What if I'm perfectly happy living in a bath tub in the street? Am I still successful?


    What I discovered through the activation of my adrenaline receptors, is that the detached philosopher who is content with poverty and asceticism is merely the inverse of the worldly conqueror, and that they are simply reverse sides of the same coin.
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    Jan 28, 2014 11:16 AM GMT
    Unnamed5 said
    Ajjax saidSuccess is a fairly subjective term, isn't it?
    What if I'm perfectly happy living in a bath tub in the street? Am I still successful?


    What I discovered through the activation of my adrenaline receptors, is that the detached philosopher who is content with poverty and asceticism is merely the inverse of the worldly conqueror, and that they are simply reverse sides of the same coin.


    And with that I know my place in history.
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    Jan 28, 2014 11:18 AM GMT
    Unnamed5 said
    Ajjax saidSuccess is a fairly subjective term, isn't it?
    What if I'm perfectly happy living in a bath tub in the street? Am I still successful?


    What I discovered through the activation of my adrenaline receptors, is that the detached philosopher who is content with poverty and asceticism is merely the inverse of the worldly conqueror, and that they are simply reverse sides of the same coin.
    :0 A fellow cynic! Come, let us gambol together in search of one honest man!
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    Jan 28, 2014 11:41 AM GMT
    Ajjax said
    Unnamed5 said
    Ajjax saidSuccess is a fairly subjective term, isn't it?
    What if I'm perfectly happy living in a bath tub in the street? Am I still successful?


    What I discovered through the activation of my adrenaline receptors, is that the detached philosopher who is content with poverty and asceticism is merely the inverse of the worldly conqueror, and that they are simply reverse sides of the same coin.
    :0 A fellow cynic! Come, let us gambol together in search of one honest man!


    Well that is my unique interpretation and contribution of a story that has been discussed for more than two thousand years. I will hopefully demonstrate it as the years pass by.

    And to state things honestly, I liked you from the start (when I read your first five postings many months ago), but not in that way, so add me as a friend on here.
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    Jan 28, 2014 12:11 PM GMT
    Unnamed5 said
    Ajjax said
    Unnamed5 said
    Ajjax saidSuccess is a fairly subjective term, isn't it?
    What if I'm perfectly happy living in a bath tub in the street? Am I still successful?


    What I discovered through the activation of my adrenaline receptors, is that the detached philosopher who is content with poverty and asceticism is merely the inverse of the worldly conqueror, and that they are simply reverse sides of the same coin.
    :0 A fellow cynic! Come, let us gambol together in search of one honest man!


    Well that is my unique interpretation and contribution of a story that has been discussed for more than two thousand years. I will hopefully demonstrate it as the years pass by.

    And to state things honestly, I liked you from the start (when I read your first five postings many months ago), but not in that way, so add me as a friend on here.
    Antisthenes couldn't have expressed that better himself. Not to say that your philosophy isn't unique.

    We're quite similar in our views it seems, though I'm far less detached as I value virtue over all else. Stoicism may argue that emotional pain is the result of a lapse in judgement -- but what is judgement, what is justice without virtue? I think it is Hypocrisy. I will always be a dog at heart, and yet I would sacrifice virtue if it meant not foregoing a meal, or prolonged suffering for the sake of others. Not quite sure what the hell that says about me other than I need strength of virtue to be happy... Though I think we all do.

    You know, you even resemble old busts of Antisthenes. Quite uncanny actually. Ahaha.

    And for sure man. I remember your face, too. Added!
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    Jan 28, 2014 2:39 PM GMT
    Unnamed5 said "They are simply taking advantage of legacies, infrastructures, systems, institutions, etc, etc, created by other people long ago who don't really exist anymore, and are simply gaming economic opportunities for their own benefit because they know how and can work diligently towards that knowledge"

    In fact, the article reported that the legacies are against non-whites:

    "being an outsider in a society — and America’s most successful groups are all outsiders in one way or another — is a source of insecurity in itself. Immigrants worry about whether they can survive in a strange land, often communicating a sense of life’s precariousness to their children. Hence the common credo: They can take away your home or business, but never your education, so study harder. Newcomers and religious minorities may face derision or hostility. Cubans fleeing to Miami after Fidel Castro’s takeover reported seeing signs reading “No dogs, no Cubans” on apartment buildings."
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    Jan 28, 2014 10:09 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidThose who talk of America’s “decline” miss this crucial point. America has always been at its best when it has had to overcome adversity and prove its mettle on the world stage. For better and worse, it has that opportunity again today.


    Your statement is unsupported by the study. It's also not about different ethnicities - as every population has people who struggle through adversity and who do have these traits - it's the foundation/environment that governments create that allow these individuals to do well.

    Two recent studies highlight the wounds Americans have self inflicted on themselves:
    The Index of Economic Freedom:
    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702303848104579308811265028066?mod=trending_now_1
    "World economic freedom has reached record levels, according to the 2014 Index of Economic Freedom, released Tuesday by the Heritage Foundation and The Wall Street Journal. But after seven straight years of decline, the U.S. has dropped out of the top 10 most economically free countries."

    And the World Bank's Doing Business:
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/u.s.-ranks-behind-rwanda-belarus-azerbaijan-in-ease-of-creating-new-business-world-bank-says/article/2542639
    "A new study by the World Bank and the International Finance Corp. found that the U.S. ranks well behind countries like Rwanda, Belarus and Azerbaijan in terms of how easy it is for an entrepreneur to start a new business. The U.S. did narrowly beat Uzbekistan, though."

    America's decline is very much self inflicted and is very real and it has only been accelerated in recent years particularly with its foreign policy failures and compounded by its domestic regulatory regimes.
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    Jan 28, 2014 10:18 PM GMT
    OMG...Big Government and its strangling of free enterprise! The Heritage Foundation and the WSJ nailed it!

    I DON'T THINK SO.
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    Jan 28, 2014 10:22 PM GMT
    okonomiyaki saidOMG...Big Government and its strangling of free enterprise! The Heritage Foundation and the WSJ nailed it!

    I DON'T THINK SO.


    And the World Bank? Both are indices tracking pretty much all countries over time. Try tracking economic growth against both.

    For the record, I pretty much despise the World Bank but their doing business analytics group has probably had the biggest impact on economic growth over anything that they do with a tiny budget compared to everything else.

    And based on objective standards, it's not only more difficult to start a business in the US, but the US has become increasingly less hospitable to entrepreneur when the rest of the world is moving in the opposite direction.
  • HottJoe

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    Jan 28, 2014 10:26 PM GMT
    Youtube comments and a need to be desired.
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    Jan 29, 2014 2:51 AM GMT
    The more important question is:
    What defines success? What defines success for you/yourself? What IS success?
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    Jan 29, 2014 3:32 AM GMT
    It depends what you mean by success. The article reported that: "material success cannot be equated with a well-lived life. Jewish success is the most historically fraught and the most broad-based. Although Jews make up only about 2 percent of the United States’ adult population, they account for a third of the current Supreme Court; over two-thirds of Tony Award-winning lyricists and composers; and about a third of American Nobel laureates."

    So if success means getting to the U.S. Supreme Court, Jewish success reigns supreme. If success means obtaining the most Tony Awards, Jewish artists would win. If success means winning the most Nobel prizes, Jewish scientists would win.
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    Jan 29, 2014 3:45 AM GMT
    Fear of failure always pushes me to succeed in everything that I do.... and I have a lot of motherfuckers that want to see me fail and I'll die before I let them.
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    Jan 29, 2014 3:47 AM GMT
    Well, regarding that, the article explained: "t’s odd to think of people feeling simultaneously superior and insecure. Yet it’s precisely this unstable combination that generates drive: a chip on the shoulder, a goading need to prove oneself. Add impulse control — the ability to resist temptation — and the result is people who systematically sacrifice present gratification in pursuit of future attainment."