Insecurity and Loneliness

  • Karl

    Posts: 5787

    Jan 28, 2014 3:22 PM GMT
    Have you ever been through such a tough time of insecurity and loneliness when you were in your 20s?
    Feel free to share some of your thoughts .


    Here's mine :

    "When I was young
    I never needed anyone
    Making love is just for fun
    Those days are gone"

    - Celine Dion 's All By Myself -

    The lyrics above is exactly how I felt when I was 20.
    Before that I used to be a happy boy, I smiled and be happy all the time.
    Then I started to worry , I thought a lot, I played Radiohead's Creep too many times a day, lasted for almost a year.
    I thought I was a kind of person who is nobody's type.
    I made a playlist called "loneliness", listened to it and cried every night.

    I'm 21 now, I'm not sad or feel so lonely as I used to be , I'm concentrating on my career and I'm not looking for anyone now.
    But something has changed, I smile less , talk less and always feel lost in the crowd , I can only feel comfortable when I'm alone.
    But it's good for me.

    How about you ?

  • Jan 28, 2014 7:10 PM GMT
    There's no need to limit that experience by age. Being gay in itself is a very difficult, lonely and anonymous life that, unfortunately, many guys regret coming out after discovering this group of gay men you've waited a lifetime to find are nasty, rude cowards who are even more rejecting and hurtful than the straight bullies you had to put up with in high school. The betrayal of gay men towards other gay men is heartbreaking. It prevents a lot of us from even trying to date anyone again or even make other gay friends, because there are so few gay men in general (2-4% of the male population), it's easy to see this pattern and come to the conclusion that coming out and being gay are lives that are lonely and isolating. As much as it's difficult to find friends, it's next to impossible to find someone to spend your life with who is genuine and honest, and is mutually interested. The age thing with gay men is different in that we have no milestones in life that our straight peers do (mostly regarding having to grow up because now you've got a spouse and child motivating you to be responsible). We can get married but it means nothing when the majority of us don't even know how to find another gay guy to go out with who actually calls back again. Marriage legalization did nothing to change our dating habits or the way we discard each other after discovering whatever minor flaw and then never speaking or acknowledging each other again.

    The problem with many gay men isn't that they're seething and furious at the way their lives have turned out. It's that they've taken out that anger on each other rather than the root cause of it. And what we do is we somehow feel better by hurting each other with insults or words because there's nobody else for us to go after: straight men would just laugh at us for insulting them and women don't really care what we think since we're not 'in the game' with them. So yeah...it's a lot harder for us because at first you're so excited to find other gay people and then you realize you can't trust them, but then you see that without trusting anyone you'll never meet anyone, and so I think that's where a lot of us are. Gay men don't seem very interested or attracted to other gay men, and most gay men are certainly not sexually compatible and don't match up accordingly...it's a life of few friends, fantasizing about not-gay men who are just that, a fantasy, and resenting the few gay men who're out there who are not nice people, not compatible, not interested and after trying out a few cities, it's basically the same kinds of gay guys wherever you go.
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    Jan 28, 2014 7:45 PM GMT
    I think I had that problem more during my teenage years. Ironically the realization I was attracted to men was the least of my worries. I was too busy dealing with homelessness, watching my back because I pissed off gang members in my school, and somewhat being a loner because I had no one to talk to about those issues.

    but on the bright side, I turned into a pretty kickass 23 year old icon_biggrin.gif
  • davidchill45

    Posts: 55

    Jan 28, 2014 10:45 PM GMT
    toronto647 saidThere's no need to limit that experience by age. Being gay in itself is a very difficult, lonely and anonymous life that, unfortunately, many guys regret coming out after discovering this group of gay men you've waited a lifetime to find are nasty, rude cowards who are even more rejecting and hurtful than the straight bullies you had to put up with in high school. The betrayal of gay men towards other gay men is heartbreaking. It prevents a lot of us from even trying to date anyone again or even make other gay friends, because there are so few gay men in general (2-4% of the male population), it's easy to see this pattern and come to the conclusion that coming out and being gay are lives that are lonely and isolating. As much as it's difficult to find friends, it's next to impossible to find someone to spend your life with who is genuine and honest, and is mutually interested. The age thing with gay men is different in that we have no milestones in life that our straight peers do (mostly regarding having to grow up because now you've got a spouse and child motivating you to be responsible). We can get married but it means nothing when the majority of us don't even know how to find another gay guy to go out with who actually calls back again. Marriage legalization did nothing to change our dating habits or the way we discard each other after discovering whatever minor flaw and then never speaking or acknowledging each other again.

    The problem with many gay men isn't that they're seething and furious at the way their lives have turned out. It's that they've taken out that anger on each other rather than the root cause of it. And what we do is we somehow feel better by hurting each other with insults or words because there's nobody else for us to go after: straight men would just laugh at us for insulting them and women don't really care what we think since we're not 'in the game' with them. So yeah...it's a lot harder for us because at first you're so excited to find other gay people and then you realize you can't trust them, but then you see that without trusting anyone you'll never meet anyone, and so I think that's where a lot of us are. Gay men don't seem very interested or attracted to other gay men, and most gay men are certainly not sexually compatible and don't match up accordingly...it's a life of few friends, fantasizing about not-gay men who are just that, a fantasy, and resenting the few gay men who're out there who are not nice people, not compatible, not interested and after trying out a few cities, it's basically the same kinds of gay guys wherever you go.



    Very thought provoking--

    I naively believed that when I came out, there would be this almost open-arms-of-brotherhood within the 'gay community'--whatever in the hell that is.

    I was wrong--very wrong. Like I read somewhere a few years back, gays tend to eat their own.

    Like you said in so many words--to have to face the lack of social acceptance during your formative years (or however many years it took you to come out--everyone takes their own journey) only to have it heaped back at you by other gay men--I mean, it's disheartening to say the least.
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    Jan 28, 2014 10:47 PM GMT
    I think it's just a case of young gay angst. I'm pretty sure I was like that when I was 21. I thought I would end up alone, but give it a couple of more years and you will find someone.
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    Jan 29, 2014 5:00 AM GMT
    I did go through a time like that too but perhaps not up to your magnitude. Still dealing with it, but I'd say as I get older, it gets easier and easier. I learn to accept myself more and care less about what others think of me.

    I hope you surround yourself with good company. Or if possible, talk to a professional.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jan 29, 2014 5:29 AM GMT
    toronto647 said...Gay men don't seem very interested or attracted to other gay men, and most gay men are certainly not sexually compatible and don't match up accordingly...


    There's a lot of truth in all that you said. Fortunately it isn't the whole truth. Unfortunately it's close enough.

    The real question is, what are we going to do about it?
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    Jan 29, 2014 5:45 AM GMT
    Varus saidI think it's just a case of young gay angst. I'm pretty sure I was like that when I was 21. I thought I would end up alone, but give it a couple of more years and you will find someone.
    I'll be 23 in a few days. Still miserable.
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:02 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidThere is nothing unusual about this. Men in their twenties are typically, relatively unhappy because of so many things in the air--love, career, money, education, and so on. You will feel better in your thirties and beyond.
    I.. highly doubt it.
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:13 AM GMT
    Varus saidI thought I would end up alone, but give it a couple of more years and you will find someone.


    I think this belief that we're going to find someone only adds fuel to the fire of loneliness. It's just not true, either. We're not all going to find someone. I'd say that self-acceptance can be more helpful than thinking there's someone "out there" to make it go away.
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:16 AM GMT
    Karl saidHave you ever been through such a tough time of insecurity and loneliness when you were in your 20s?
    Feel free to share some of your thoughts .


    Here's mine :

    "When I was young
    I never needed anyone
    Making love is just for fun
    Those days are gone"

    - Celine Dion 's All By Myself -

    The lyrics above is exactly how I felt when I was 20.
    Before that I used to be a happy boy, I smiled and be happy all the time.
    Then I started to worry , I thought a lot, I played Radiohead's Creep too many times a day, lasted for almost a year.
    I thought I was a kind of person who is nobody's type.
    I made a playlist called "loneliness", listened to it and cried every night.

    I'm 21 now, I'm not sad or feel so lonely as I used to be , I'm concentrating on my career.
    But something has changed, I smile less , talk less and always feel lost in the crowd , I can only feel comfortable when I'm alone.
    But it's good for me.

    How about you ?



    "All By Myself"
    - Eric Carmen
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:18 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidThere is nothing unusual about this. Men in their twenties are typically, relatively unhappy because of so many things in the air--love, career, money, education, and so on. You will feel better in your thirties and beyond.


    More empty promises. Some people go through phases, yes. Others can struggle for a lifetime. There is no age at which one magically feels better.
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:28 AM GMT
    unfounded7 said
    woodsmen saidThere is nothing unusual about this. Men in their twenties are typically, relatively unhappy because of so many things in the air--love, career, money, education, and so on. You will feel better in your thirties and beyond.


    More empty promises. Some people go through phases, yes. Others can struggle for a lifetime. There is no age at which one magically feels better.


    Well, lets think about it. from the time you started your first sexual experience with a man to the age you are right now, you've probably bypassed someone who really wanted to get to know you, and yes, even love you, IF you are willing to give them a chance, but for some strange reason you didn't reciprocate their feelings. Sometimes we can't blame life as the reason to our unhappiness.

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    Jan 30, 2014 1:34 AM GMT
    Varus said
    Well, lets think about it. from the time you started your first sexual experience with a man to the age you are right now, you've probably bypassed someone who really wanted to get to know you, and yes, even love you, IF you are willing to give them a chance, but for some strange reason you didn't reciprocate their feelings. Sometimes we can't blame life as the reason to our unhappiness.


    Are you saying to pretend to reciprocate feelings for someone you don't feel them for just so you won't be lonely? That's what it sounds like.
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:36 AM GMT
    Karl said, " Have you ever been through such a tough time of insecurity and loneliness when you were in your 20s?
    Feel free to share some of your thoughts."

    Here Karl; how I felt for several periods of time in my 20s...

    " Long ago, a young man sits and plays his waiting game.
    But things are not the same it seems as in such tender dreams.
    Slowly passing sailing ships and Sunday afternoon.
    Like people on the moon I see are things not meant to be.

    Where do those golden rainbows end? Why is this song so sad?
    Dreaming the dreams I've dreamed my friend, loving the love I love
    to love is just a word I've heard when things are being said.
    Stories my poor head has told me cannot stand the cold.
    And in between what might have been and what has come to pass,
    a misbegotten guess alas and bits of broken glass.
    Where do your golden rainbows end? Why is this song I sing so sad?
    Dreaming the dreams I dream my friend, loving the love I love to love to love to love."
    (a James Taylor song)

    I think it important to consider that both these songs, the one you posted and this one were penned by straight people, so as gay people, we are not quite alone in this as we often think.

    There's more; why are so many gay people so bitter, confused, let down, less accepting than we think we should be?

    Here's an idea. Growing up, our straight counterparts had massive amounts of acceptance and encouragement, and children's imaginary tales from Sleeping Beauty to Cinderella to Rapunzel, then teen romance comics, Romeo and Juliette and the list goes on. We had nothing like that. Nothing at all. Instead we had thorns: sick, wrong, damned, evil, sin, disgusting. Small wonder it's an uphill climb.

    I will say this, though, on here, for example, are wonderful men of all ages who have gone through that fire and come out the other side with hearts that understand the depths of loneliness and despair, the withdrawal and unacceptance of others. Yet their hearts are WARM, their smiles reflecting that warmth, their words bridges across chasms of isolation. They learned from it rather than being beaten by it.
    They are MEN among men, some in the growing stages of filling out pretty amazing boots, and unaware at times that they are doing this. You're such a man, Karl. I saw it in you immediately.

    There are many more, but as you began this topic I'll mention only you right now.

    with very warm and appreciative regards,

    -Doug
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:38 AM GMT
    unfounded7 said
    Varus said
    Well, lets think about it. from the time you started your first sexual experience with a man to the age you are right now, you've probably bypassed someone who really wanted to get to know you, and yes, even love you, IF you are willing to give them a chance, but for some strange reason you didn't reciprocate their feelings. Sometimes we can't blame life as the reason to our unhappiness.


    Are you saying to pretend to reciprocate feelings for someone you don't feel them for just so you won't be lonely? That's what it sounds like.

    No, I think he's saying that making too-quick snap judgements about people may lead you to overlook someone who might have been right for you. Probably happened to me too.
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    Jan 30, 2014 1:39 AM GMT
    unfounded7 said
    Varus said
    Well, lets think about it. from the time you started your first sexual experience with a man to the age you are right now, you've probably bypassed someone who really wanted to get to know you, and yes, even love you, IF you are willing to give them a chance, but for some strange reason you didn't reciprocate their feelings. Sometimes we can't blame life as the reason to our unhappiness.


    Are you saying to pretend to reciprocate feelings for someone you don't feel them for just so you won't be lonely? That's what it sounds like.


    No, but I'm saying that maybe gay men should give some other gay men a chance? It's funny how many of my gay friends are "holding out" for Mr. Perfect yet I keep telling them, he doesn't exist, yet they insist on waiting. In my eyes they are just wasting time for something that's not even there to begin with or ever to come.
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    Jan 30, 2014 2:00 AM GMT
    Varus said
    unfounded7 said
    Varus said
    Well, lets think about it. from the time you started your first sexual experience with a man to the age you are right now, you've probably bypassed someone who really wanted to get to know you, and yes, even love you, IF you are willing to give them a chance, but for some strange reason you didn't reciprocate their feelings. Sometimes we can't blame life as the reason to our unhappiness.


    Are you saying to pretend to reciprocate feelings for someone you don't feel them for just so you won't be lonely? That's what it sounds like.


    No, but I'm saying that maybe gay men should give some other gay men a chance? It's funny how many of my gay friends are "holding out" for Mr. Perfect yet I keep telling them, he doesn't exist, yet they insist on waiting. In my eyes they are just wasting time for something that's not even there to begin with or ever to come.



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    Jan 30, 2014 2:01 AM GMT
    I wasn't saying anything about holding out for Mr Perfect but I'll agree that he doesn't exist. My point was more along the lines of working on self-acceptance to possibly soothe the feeling of loneliness. To stray away from the belief that someone else will fill the void and make the loneliness dissipate.
  • davidchill45

    Posts: 55

    Jan 30, 2014 3:38 PM GMT
    Ajjax said
    woodsmen saidThere is nothing unusual about this. Men in their twenties are typically, relatively unhappy because of so many things in the air--love, career, money, education, and so on. You will feel better in your thirties and beyond.
    I.. highly doubt it.


    Doubt it now--that's OK, but--things really do change as the years go by.

    And remember, this is someone who just turned 49 this past November who is blowing this hot air.

    Though it's been touched on here, and in other threads (and countless talk shows I'm sure)--self acceptance and confidence are some of the most appealing things out there.

    You never know what age you will be when you can finally let out a deep breath and say to yourself "life is awesome--some days, it's GOOD to be me".

    OK--enough of my psychobabble.