To the Christians: Please Explain...

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2014 8:07 PM GMT
    2 Samuel 12:11-14

    Thus says the Lord: 'I will bring evil upon you out of your own house. I will take your wives while you live to see it, and will give them to your neighbor. He shall lie with your wives in broad daylight. You have done this deed in secret, but I will bring it about in the presence of all Israel, and with the sun looking down.'
    Then David said to Nathan, "I have sinned against the Lord." Nathan answered David: "The Lord on his part has forgiven your sin: you shall not die. But since you have utterly spurned the Lord by this deed, the child born to you must surely die." [The child dies seven days later.]

    So God himself brings a completely innocent rape victim to a rapist. Then he kills an innocent child. So......am I missing something here?
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    Jan 30, 2014 8:13 PM GMT
    That's assuming that the Bible is completely God's word, which it isn't, much of it includes the views of men who only believed that they were writing in God's word.
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    Jan 30, 2014 8:13 PM GMT
    god is basically saying "your wife is a whore and if you don't pimp her out to the town for some extra cash and give 10% to my church, you will burn in hell"
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    Jan 30, 2014 8:16 PM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidEvangelical/Born Again types focus on the New Testament, as Jesus had a new message. The Old Testament is about Israel and the Jews.


    Right
  • 1AlanZSky

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    Jan 30, 2014 8:16 PM GMT
    I have no idea... I think I will stick to the present.
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    Jan 30, 2014 8:27 PM GMT
    Scruffy, you're going to get many different answers, depending on the Christian.

    Here's mine (being Christian).
    'Behold, this is how people thought of Me in those days, limited by their own prejudices. Thus then, a lesson, that you do not think of Me this way.'

    It's a matter of perception; the book has an interesting, and some would say, dreadful power. What a person takes from it and how they apply it determines, and tells others, like a giant shout, the kind of Christian they are.

  • HottJoe

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    Jan 30, 2014 8:31 PM GMT
    The new testament is no better. Imagine if some cult leader today made people disavow their families and follow him into the desert, to live and die on his terms. Jesus did crazy things and mainly shouted at people and called himself their magic king. He supported slavery, subjugation of women, civil disobedience and so on. The idea that Jesus was a flawless human who never harmed a soul is just spin. If Jesus were alive today, he'd probably get himself killed again, and for all the same reasons.
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    Jan 30, 2014 8:34 PM GMT
    kiwiLifter saidEvangelical/Born Again types focus on the New Testament, as Jesus had a new message. They aren't overly fussed about the Old Testament which is about Israel and the Jews.


    so the old message didn't work too good? i'm confused
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    Jan 30, 2014 8:36 PM GMT

    I'll admit to being a tad confused here. The title did say, 'to the Christians'. If we are to be bashed on this topic then it seems counterproductive to post here.

    -confuzzled

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    Jan 30, 2014 9:12 PM GMT
    Quit trying to apply logic to spiritualism/religious beliefs. It doesn't work and never will.
  • HottJoe

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    Jan 30, 2014 9:12 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    I'll admit to being a tad confused here. The title did say, 'to the Christians'. If we are to be bashed on this topic then it seems counterproductive to post here.

    -confuzzled


    So, nonbelievers shouldn't ask for an explanation for biblical hate speech? I get that Christians don't want to have to defend their beliefs, but a lot of people are harmed in the name of these types of beliefs. I figure as long as Christians are out to convert people, their dogma and motives should be questioned.

    For instance, during the time of slavery in the US, slaves were taught christianity to keep them subjugated and to give them false hope that they'll be rewarded for their labor after they're dead. But, you know what? It's monstrous to say that the reward of a slave's labor comes after their death. How sick and twisted can our Christian culture be, and how can we not question that???

    There is no reward for slave labor, there is only justice. And Christians just write off these kinds of atrocities and say that God will give people justice after they're dead. That's bullshit and a failure of man.

    It makes me queasy to think that people use Christianity to promote love, when they are inadvertently selling out their fellow man, treating the planet like a landfill, and not getting salvation and immorality in the sky. I'll never understand how people can just look past the motives of priests and governments and Jesus Christ himself, who used religion to control people.
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:17 PM GMT


    "So, nonbelievers shouldn't ask for an explanation for biblical hate speech?"

    Of course they should, and Scruffy just did. He asked Christians. Are you one? No?

    Then ask a question. All I read was your declarations about how horrible Christianity is. What question would you like to ask?
  • HottJoe

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    Jan 30, 2014 9:21 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    "So, nonbelievers shouldn't ask for an explanation for biblical hate speech?"

    Of course they should, and Scruffy just did. He asked Christians. Are you one? No?

    Then ask a question. All I read was your declarations about how horrible Christianity is. What question would you like to ask?

    I want to know why Christians push a book of hate speech onto people and make them feel like they need to be saved by the very thing designed to trap them.
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:24 PM GMT
    kiwiLifter said
    Where it gets interesting is the New Testament - the whole Salvation program, Jesus as a personal saviour, being Born Again etc.

    Oh please. The so-called "New Yestament" was the first sequel ever written. And like all sequels that followed, it's badly written, with a silly plot and annoying characters. Like that whiny bitch Paul, for instance. Man trips out on LSD and thinks he has a vision and half of Europe later gets slaughtered. Or how about that wily slut Mary? Gets knocked up by a shepherd, and when Joseph comes home one day and sees her baby bump, she thinks quickly and says "Uhhhh----God did it. Yeah, that's the ticket. God knocked me up." And Joseph, the most gullible man in recorded history, actually buys this story.

    And you wonder why we laugh.
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:29 PM GMT
  • HottJoe

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    Jan 30, 2014 9:32 PM GMT
    Yuck, and the idea that God would see to it that his son is killed because that's the only way I can be purified is just disturbing. No, thanks! I don't want anyone dying for me.
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:33 PM GMT
    The bible is full of metaphors, fables and exagerated truths. Unfortunately, both theists and athiests take it quite literally without taking into account who wrote it, the context and the historical time periods including the thousands upon thousands of rewrites to support political positions.

    Like for instance; people believe that Mary was a literal virgin. In that time period, it was expected an quite common for the betrothed to be having sex. Joseph was going to town on Mary.

    It's more important (modern times) to take philosophical and moral lessons from it then literal truths. I.e. Love thy enemy
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:33 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    meninlove said

    "So, nonbelievers shouldn't ask for an explanation for biblical hate speech?"

    Of course they should, and Scruffy just did. He asked Christians. Are you one? No?

    Then ask a question. All I read was your declarations about how horrible Christianity is. What question would you like to ask?

    I want to know why Christians push a book of hate speech onto people and make them feel like they need to be saved by the very thing designed to trap them.


    See my earlier post, then, about how you can tell the differences between Christians by how they interpret and apply Christianity.
    Many Christians don't push Christianity, nor do they want anyone to think or believe god would entrap, because they don't see god or the bible that way. However, I've also met a great many that do. They try to get others to believe and love god out of fear, and god's wrath, jealousy and vengeance which never works, because then god is not god at all, but just a bigger human full of flaws. That's not love, or god. Mom once said (good ol' Mom)'If perfect love casts out fear, then perfect fear casts out love.'

    Perhaps this may explain it better: many Christians see the bible as allegorical and metaphorical. It (the book) also explains the emotional temperament of the writers and their limitations in understanding that Love.

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    Jan 30, 2014 9:33 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidYuck, and the idea that God would see to it that his son is killed because that's the only way I can be purified is just disturbing. No, thanks! I don't want anyone dying for me.



    Jesus lives.
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:35 PM GMT
    IceBuckets saidThe bible is full of metaphors, fables and exagerated truths. Unfortunately, both theists and athiests take it quite literally without taking into account who wrote it, the context and the historical time periods including the thousands upon thousands of rewrites to support political positions.

    Like for instance; people believe that Mary was a literal virgin. In that time period, it was expected an quite common for the betrothed to be having sex. Joseph was going to town on Mary.

    It's more important (modern times) to take philosophical and moral lessons from it then literal truths. I.e. Love thy enemy


    *LIKE*
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    IceBuckets saidThe bible is full of metaphors, fables and exagerated truths. Unfortunately, both theists and athiests take it quite literally without taking into account who wrote it, the context and the historical time periods including the thousands upon thousands of rewrites to support political positions.

    Like for instance; people believe that Mary was a literal virgin. In that time period, it was expected an quite common for the betrothed to be having sex. Joseph was going to town on Mary.

    It's more important (modern times) to take philosophical and moral lessons from it then literal truths. I.e. Love thy enemy


    *LIKE*

    Not bad for a stupid, Catholic 'Murican, eh?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
    One thing I've noticed, and have a question about: why do so many atheists think you can't be a Christian unless you take everything in the bible literally? Is it because the only kind of Christians you know are Fundies?

    ..and one more question: why do so many atheists take the bible literally? No wonder they hate it.

    Interestingly, my Bill who is atheist does none of the above.
  • HottJoe

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    Jan 30, 2014 9:43 PM GMT
    IceBuckets saidThe bible is full of metaphors, fables and exagerated truths. Unfortunately, both theists and athiests take it quite literally without taking into account who wrote it, the context and the historical time periods including the thousands upon thousands of rewrites to support political positions.

    Like for instance; people believe that Mary was a literal virgin. In that time period, it was expected an quite common for the betrothed to be having sex. Joseph was going to town on Mary.

    It's more important (modern times) to take philosophical and moral lessons from it then literal truths. I.e. Love thy enemy

    I'm pretty sure you can get those same lessons from Mr. Rogers reruns. I'm just not sure why one book is sacred, especially since it's a book of myths.
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jan 30, 2014 9:45 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidQuit trying to apply logic to spiritualism/religious beliefs. It doesn't work and never will.


    There may be some rationality in theological discussions, but religion`s powering principle is faith; emotion and feeling. It`s not inferior to logic, etc., just different. Each have their place in our lives.
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    Jan 30, 2014 9:46 PM GMT
    Icebuckets: "Not bad for a stupid, Catholic 'Murican, eh?"

    *jaw drops*

    How dare you say that about my American friends and family? =O

    (I know, others have taken that position, and I'm sorry about that, I got your point)icon_wink.gif