For or against dairy products ?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2014 11:34 AM GMT
    There are more and more people talking about this " dairy propaganda" saying that dairy products, and milk in particular is not as good for you as people used to say it was.

    I'm not against exploring alternatives. I've tasted almond milk and it really wasn't bad at all, but I don"t think I can ever give up on cheese.

    Anyway, I'd be curious to hear from people who live on non-dairy products. Why did you do it ? Are there noticeable differences in the way you feel ? Feel free to share any other advice on nutrition.
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    Feb 09, 2014 12:48 PM GMT
    Dairy tends to upset my skin and cause congestion, so I've cut it out for a good two years and seem to get by OK. The only thing I miss is proper cheesecake. For all else there's coconut milk.
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    Feb 09, 2014 5:25 PM GMT
    Consider this.
    We are the only mammals who continue to drink milk past the weaning stage--and we don't even drink our own milk, we drink cow milk that is fortified with vitamin D so that we can actually use the calcium in it.
    We are not really designed to drink milk as adults.

    Having said that, I love my chocolate milk and will never give it up. icon_twisted.gif

    And almond milk to me tastes like white flavored water.
    I won't touch most soy products.
  • frogman89

    Posts: 418

    Feb 09, 2014 5:36 PM GMT
    If you are not lactose intolerant, I don't see why you should give up on dairy products.
    Cow milk provides calcium and phosphorus as well as a number of vitamins (A, B1, B2, C, D and E mostly), around 3.5 % of proteine (a lot of essential amino acids in fact!), 3.5 % of fat and 5 % of milk sugar.
    Hence it delivers the base material for the mineral bone and has a protective effect to it. And it delivers a high amount of essential amino acids.

    If you ask me, dairy products are awesome icon_smile.gif.
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    Feb 09, 2014 6:21 PM GMT
    OK, this comes from a kid who grew up on a small dairy farm and who have had many uncles and cousins that made a fortune in the business. I eat meat and some dairy and love Jersey cows.

    There is evidence in conventional medicine and much more "enthusiasm" w/the homeopathic medical community that dairy consumption will lead to prostate issues.

    Anything other than skim milk dairy products can and will lead to less than desirable blood lipid levels.

    Including animal products in your diet has considerable negative impacts to the global environment and that includes dairy as well as beef and poultry production.

    Also, if you care about it, these animals live short, hard lives in giant dairy production facilities where most of the milk in the US comes from.

    Didn't mean to be a downer but there are hidden realities in a country where we are so far removed from our food supply.
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    Feb 09, 2014 6:22 PM GMT
    I vote for.

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  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2014 6:27 PM GMT
    Love dairy! Cheese and milk.. yes plz
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    Feb 09, 2014 6:33 PM GMT
    I drink a ton of milk. Eat some cheese. etc.
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    Feb 09, 2014 8:43 PM GMT
    Anomalous1 saidConsider this.
    We are the only mammals who continue to drink milk past the weaning stage--and we don't even drink our own milk, we drink cow milk that is fortified with vitamin D so that we can actually use the calcium in it.
    We are not really designed to drink milk as adults.

    Having said that, I love my chocolate milk and will never give it up. icon_twisted.gif

    And almond milk to me tastes like white flavored water.
    I won't touch most soy products.


    Well, it's an interesting point. But, we, as humans have the intellectual abilities to go beyond what nature dictates to us ; and that includes looking for foods that best cover our needs.

    In that sense, it's not that shocking for us to be consuming cow milk if it has the benefits experts claim it had. But, the problem is, maybe there are some side effects we've neglected to consider...
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    Feb 09, 2014 9:13 PM GMT
    Adult's don't "need" milk. You can get calcium from eating other foods. But I have nothing against dairy products like cheese, yogurts, etc.

    For cereal, almond "milk" is just fine with me.
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    Feb 09, 2014 9:14 PM GMT
    I grew up on a dairy farm...And the only milk product I consume is 0% unsweetened all natural yogurt in my smoothies. And the occasional bit of cheese.

    Milk is essential for strong bone development but the stuff they sell in stores has vitamin A & D added to it because today, cows never see the light of day which naturally adds that to the milk...

    Try other things. But for me, 0% milk...3.5% when I'm feeling particularly naughty and about to eat some homemade cookies.
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    Feb 09, 2014 9:22 PM GMT
    xrichx saidAdult's don't "need" milk. You can get calcium from eating other foods. But I have nothing against dairy products like cheese, yogurts, etc.

    For cereal, almond "milk" is just fine with me.

    Exactly the same here. Although I do have this tiny half pint of heavy cream. I need a tablespoon or two in my morning cup of coffee; the fat rounds out the flavor and takes the edge off its bitterness.

    I don't eat that much of it but the idea of life without cheese is hard to contemplate. (Although I was vegan for a few years and even went without bacon, which I also only eat occasionally.)
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    Feb 09, 2014 9:25 PM GMT
    Erm that crap you buy at the store is no longer milk. It's a highly processed commodity regulated for consistency and visual appeal.

    It doesn't even taste like milk anymore.

    I love LOVE milk but I get real stuff from a farm where the cows are cared for, fed well, give large pastures and the milk is very untouched and natural.

    Case in point the milk I get when it goes bad doesn't taste disgusting. It starts to sour and I can make sour cream or butter from the left over fats in the milk and it tastes amazing.

    the shit you buy at the store is just that shit.
  • Breeman

    Posts: 339

    Feb 09, 2014 9:53 PM GMT
    Dairy in moderation for me. I'm addicted to cheese and cut back as a new year's resolution this year. That stuff is too expensive!!
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    Feb 09, 2014 10:08 PM GMT
    Since 2009 I've had to cut all dairy because it gives me acne. The only milk-derived product I can consume is whey. It seems this comes down to the anabolic/carcinogenic/acne inducing hormone IGF-1.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2715202/

    A potent link to dairy seems to exist for three hormone-responsive glands. Acne, breast cancer and prostate cancer have all been linked epidemiologically to dairy intake. Although mechanisms postulated here remain to be accurately defined, the likely link involves Insulin-like Growth Factor-1 as a general stimulant, synergized by the steroid hormones present in milk. The IGF-1 may be either absorbed from milk, or stimulated by its ingestion, or both. The 5alpha-reduced compound 5alpha-pregnanedione (5α-P) present in milk is a direct precursor of dihydrotestosterone and may act through that pathway in prostate cancer, but 5α-P has also recently been shown to be capable of inducing estrogen receptors in breast cancer cells, upregulating cancer cells' sensitivity to estrogen. The introduction of exogenous hormones and growth factors into tissues that have not evolved defensive feedback inhibition of their corresponding endogenous sources is postulated as a direct stimulatory threat to these organ systems, whether for hyperplasia or neoplasia.
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    Feb 09, 2014 10:16 PM GMT
    YourName2000 saidIn Canada, milk can't have any residue of antibiotics, etc...any cow needing such treatment must be removed from the milk line until the antibiotics have cleared. Growth hormones aren't allowed at all either. So all Canadian milk products are free of any of these concerns, from processed cheese slices on up.

    http://bc.ctvnews.ca/why-milk-costs-more-in-b-c-than-in-the-u-s-1.940777

    I consume a lot of dairy, but almost all of it fermented. I usually have 2 cups of kefir a day; yougurt when I want it; and hard cheese nearly every day. Fermenting can knock out some of the lactose; increases the protein content, and has some other beneficial effects.

    As to concerns about cholesterol/sat fat, I believe that animal fats are only a concern if you're over doing it on carbs. It's the carbs that make the liver sloppy, cause inflammation throughout the body, and cholesterol is just doing what it's supposed to: acting like the body's Polly-Filler to repair such damage.


    ...indeed fermented, cause I'm a lactose intolerant dude.

    *noted.
  • Ploktorb

    Posts: 95

    Feb 09, 2014 10:20 PM GMT
    im against dairy products partially.... mostly because Im lactose intolerant and hate cheese and yogurt...but im a little for them too because icecream is so good
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    Feb 09, 2014 10:28 PM GMT
    Anomalous1 saidConsider this.
    We are the only mammals who continue to drink milk past the weaning stage--and we don't even drink our own milk, we drink cow milk that is fortified with vitamin D so that we can actually use the calcium in it.
    We are not really designed to drink milk as adults.

    Having said that, I love my chocolate milk and will never give it up. icon_twisted.gif

    And almond milk to me tastes like white flavored water.
    I won't touch most soy products.


    That's something commonly thought but not actually true. The only people not designed for milk are the lactose intolerant, which runs high particularly among Asians and that's why they aren't quite known for their gourmet cheeses.

    I was just googling the study I read on that, googled milk Asian and the first entry is a wiki on lactose intolerance.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactose_intolerance
    Most mammals normally cease to produce lactase, becoming lactose intolerant, after weaning,[4] but some human populations have developed lactase persistence, in which lactase production continues into adulthood. It is estimated that 75% of adults worldwide show some decrease in lactase activity during adulthood.[5] The frequency of decreased lactase activity ranges from 5% in northern Europe through 71% for Sicily to more than 90% in some African and Asian countries.[6] This distribution is now thought to have been caused by recent natural selection favoring lactase-persistent individuals in cultures in which dairy products are available as a food source.

    here's another article on that

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactase_persistence
    Lactase expression persistence is largely due to natural selection. Natural selection is a component of evolution by which a trait affects the chances of the survival of organisms, and consequently, the trait becomes more prevalent in the population over time. Especially in Europe, the genetic variant -13,910*T has been strongly associated with lactase persistence and has been favored by natural selection in the past 10,000 years.[12] Indeed, the consumption of lactose has been proven to benefit humans through adulthood.

    here's more...

    http://phys.org/news170657572.html
    The genetic change that enabled early Europeans to drink milk without getting sick has been mapped to dairying farmers who lived around 7,500 years ago in a region between the central Balkans and central Europe.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 09, 2014 10:33 PM GMT
    I can't take most of dairy since I was child cause I had eczema, but towards now my body seems to accepts dairy in at a reasonable amount as I aged, but there is a mark. I cant over drink it like fruit Juices.

    That said I do see there is a need on dairy products but not heavy on it, you just can't go completely without it especially it does someways funds our DNA like (*sorry I cant entirely explain but there are dots to it), a essential of all around, as we aged bone density comes in as a issues where dairy usually has it first quality of calciums,of what I think of as it is, so as for our cartilage.

    Thank goodness for some reason I could enjoy cheese now icon_biggrin.gif, but cow's milk still isn't that all a body friendly milk to me, compared to Goats milk. icon_smile.gif

    Like what YN2000 said. fermented should be a better choice.
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    Feb 10, 2014 1:18 AM GMT
    I've cut out dairy from my diet, frankly, unless it just happens to be in other foods that I can't do anything about. I'm fine without it. I feel much better (I'm lactose-intolerant) and get less acne. That's not to say I don't love milk chocolate, ice cream, etc. … yum… so once in a while… an indulgent moment.
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    Feb 10, 2014 3:38 AM GMT
    Generally the only dairy I have is Greek yogurt, and sometimes I go months without that.

    But a few times a year I'll have a glass of milk, ice cream, and cottage cheese. Cheese itself is like crack to me; better than chocolate!

    Everything in moderation.
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    Feb 10, 2014 6:04 AM GMT
    You guys who find dairy products make you ill -- can you tolerate any dairy at all? Hard cheeses? Yogurt? Butter? Ghee?
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    Feb 10, 2014 9:18 AM GMT
    Against
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    Feb 10, 2014 5:07 PM GMT
    I drink low fat milk and still kicking. haha. I love milk and would die, if I can't have milk. It's had no adverse effects on me at all. In fact my doctor says its good for your bones. Keeps them strong and at my age he recommends at least 1 8 oz glass a day.
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    Feb 10, 2014 5:15 PM GMT
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