LDS, Gay, and don't know what to do.

  • junknemesis

    Posts: 682

    Dec 19, 2008 2:19 PM GMT
    Hello, I'm a 25 year old guy who is a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. (aka; LDS or mormon) I'm a student up in Idaho and I'm having a bit of a hard time. I wish I could befriend other gay guys, but since there is a big stigma on homosexuality here, it's near impossible to fine out who-is-who. The harsh penalties incurred up at the college I'm at prevent anyone from comming-out openly, and enjoying relationships with other great people of the same gender. It's heartbreaking to constantly hear how "bad" it is to be in love with someone when your both guys, and the inability to express these feelings leads to hopelessness and a weakening of spiritual faith. I am going through all these things. I wouldnt say that i'm actually in love with anyone right now, but the feelings have started about certain people and I had to work to smother them into non-existance. They moved out though, went home and I won't be seeing them again. Besides he was str8 anyway. What I'm getting at, is I don't know what to do in this situation. I USED to be open and out a few years ago before my baptism, and now I have discovered the closet that I had thought ultimatly destroyed has re-built itself around me in a sadistic Rose Red kind of way. For a time I thought I was actually gaining interest in girls, but it wasnt true, or whatever it was, it didnt last. Eveyone tells me I nee dto go out and be dating, but I feel nothing emotionally stronger the friendship with the girls up here (or anywhere). But the people I DO care about, well I would be expelled from the college if I was caught actually having a relationship with one.
    However good the education I can get here, however positive the environment is supposed to be, and the potential for great preperation for a career in my future, I will be suffering if I stay. If I leave to persue emotional fulfillment and happiness in relationships, I will possibly lose out on the aformentioned great things about this college. I feel as though in a
    Catch 22 situation, and according to everyone here in idaho on loving and dating other guys, I'm Damned if I do, and personally I feel Damned if I dont. *sigh* I think I need a hug. icon_sad.gif
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    Dec 19, 2008 2:42 PM GMT


    Hey, here's a hug....HUG and HUG HUG.

    There. Mom used to tell us kids that in any society, you have to fit in to get by, but also said that inside, to be as different as you are and be happy with it, because that day when your insides can be outside will come. So rather than smother yourself, keep your self knowledge like a small secret fire to warm yourself with - it's all in how we look at it.

    As far as an inability to express yourself, there's lots of topics here that you're welcome to post on, many about love and how it gets that way. There's also lots of friends to make here.

    Welcome to RealJock!

    ...and keep up with that college as best you can!
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    Dec 19, 2008 2:44 PM GMT
    junknemesisHowever good the education I can get here, however positive the environment is supposed to be, and the potential for great preperation for a career in my future, I will be suffering if I stay.

    If you feel that you will be suffering in this environment, then it isn't positive. It may be perfect for your fellow students, but it's certainly not optimal for you. You can get a good education almost anywhere you seek one, and there are a multitude of ways to prepare for success in your career. But by delaying dealing with your true self and staying in this environment, you're going to put yourself at a disadvantage in terms of your overall development as a well-rounded human being.

    You're in an unenviable position. I'm not saying it isn't going to be tough to make some changes, but remember that you have the ability and the right to make those changes. Nothing is inevitable. Nothing is predetermined. And there's nothing wrong with changing your mind now that you've gained insight into how this environment really affects you.

    There is no reason you can't have everything you want in terms of education, community support, and personal happiness. Hugs and best of luck.
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    Dec 19, 2008 2:52 PM GMT

    Wow, that's pretty good advice, hobronto. We took a more conservative approach as his college courses may be funded by sources LDS and his education may depend on that. We also come from (being oldies) a time when how he's surviving was what we went through, and so thought to offer up how we coped in similar situations.


    -Doug
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    Dec 19, 2008 2:57 PM GMT
    Hey buddy, here's a hug for ya. Free Smiley Face Courtesy of www.FreeSmileys.org

    Regarding your predicament, many of us have had similar experiences. If you peruse these forums, you'll find a cornucopia of threads debating/discussing homosexuality and religion, the LDS church and gay marriage, tips for when and how to come out, ad infinitum.

    Upon acceptance at your college, you were probably asked to abide by and adhere to a particular code of conduct. To a degree, the "my house, my rules" factor applies to you. This is, after all, a religion-based university, so it probably should not have been unexpected that your university would frown upon homosexual behavior (right, wrong or indifferent).

    My .02 cents is that you should consider transferring to another university. Also, after all of the Prop 8 hoopla, we've discovered that there are factions of the LDS church that do support gay rights, so perhaps you might get in contact with them for some much needed support and guidance. If you are intent on receiving a religion-based education, perhaps they could suggest a more tolerant LDS institution.

    At any rate, best of luck to you. You are wise to resist the closet; it eventually surfaces or resurfaces because it's a core element of your makeup. Those of us who remained closeted for years, or who tried to live the heterosexual life to appease our religious traditions, eventually come to find that it's a losing proposition that only leads to heartbreak (for you and others). Find a situation that is not only tolerates your gayness, but embraces you for who you are.

    *Edit - Wow, and I thought I would be the first reply. I guess I type too slowly. icon_smile.gif
  • asupas

    Posts: 234

    Dec 19, 2008 3:13 PM GMT
    I went through the same thing when I came out and was still a member of the Mormon church. When my sexuality came in conflict with what I'd been raised to believe I had a really hard time dealing with it. I found that reaching out through the internet for other local/closeted guys really helped me. Once that feeling of being alone was gone, my overall depression lifted.
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    Dec 19, 2008 3:15 PM GMT
    Hey buddy... here's a big hug from a fellow however former Mormon.

    I can totally relate to what you're going through as I was raised mormon and encourage since a young adult to squash my gayness and be the kind of man that they believe that God wants me to be.

    You are still young and have years ahead of you to develop relationships openly with men so if you decide that it is in your best interest to stay in the closet for a bit, I totally understand.

    That being said, one thing that I have learned from my experience is that in a positive enviroment where your friends love and accept you, everything seems to work better. You seem to flourish as the best you that you can be.

    If you really like being at school up there, then stick it out a little until you feel the need to come out. If you're not happy and you feel really trapped, then it's time to move on.

    Good luck with it all and regardless of your decision, keep your about about you. Don't stay where you're unhappy
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    Dec 19, 2008 5:27 PM GMT
    Drop the freakin' church man. Your first hint that it's malarkey should've been the part in the doctrines where god lives on the planet "Kolob" and it's supposed to merge with the earth in the second coming.

    Go get your ass on financial aid in a different college, or you can stay with all the other flaming fags up there at BYUI. I guarantee you all they'll do is send you to their special "de-gay" class once a week, which is ironically run by other flaming fags. Luckily, most of the other flaming fags find other dates there LOL!

    Pull your head out of your butt and get over yourself. You're not "damned" either way and it really comes down to whether or not your education from an LDS college or getting laid is more important, and in all honesty, most of the gay guys up there get both just fine.
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    Dec 19, 2008 5:50 PM GMT
    asupas saidI went through the same thing when I came out and was still a member of the Mormon church. When my sexuality came in conflict with what I'd been raised to believe I had a really hard time dealing with it. I found that reaching out through the internet for other local/closeted guys really helped me. Once that feeling of being alone was gone, my overall depression lifted.


    Right on! I know we have spoken before...but I want to again offer you all the support i can in this new adventure.
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    Dec 19, 2008 8:14 PM GMT
    You know, Nemesis, there's nothing stopping you from USING the university for your own ends. Keep in mind what they can do for you. Don't make it easy for them to catch you or abuse you, but live your life the way you want. You've got us to talk to and you can lean on us for support. Let us help you get that degree, THEN leave and tell them F*ck You.
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    Dec 19, 2008 8:21 PM GMT
    A polar bear can't survive in the desert.

    A healthy, happy human being needs to find an environment where he is nourished with regard to all his needs. If one need is unfulfilled - whether the need for intimacy, sex or something else - that gnawing dissatisfaction will grow to the point of being unbearable.

    In the old days we had to just stick it out, grit our teeth and get on with it - there were no other options. But for a young, college age man in the US that is not true. Will it cause a major disruption in your life? Yes. Will you ever regret it? Hell no.

    Get out of there, get to a gay-friendly place and get yourself a boyfriend!

    Sending you loving thoughts and the strength and courage to be your own man.
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    Dec 19, 2008 10:40 PM GMT
    WOW..........I forget that many of you guys don't live in a big city like NYC. I guess I take things for granted. But even here in NYC, there are guys who are in the closet, and basically, they have a split personalityand life....with wifes or girlfriends/famlies that don't know their "other side".

    I feel for you buddy. Keep coming here to RJ. Most of the guys here are solid and you can make friends and chat. And find a way to see the movie "MILK". It may give you some courage and fresh ideas and remind you that you are not alone, even in these modern times.

    Maybe there are interent sites specifically for men in your situation, and you can chat and trade ideas and stories.

    BTW Bring pride, satisfaction, and good things to your encounters wth men, and that's what you will get in return.....If you bring shame, guilt, excess and unhappiness into it, you wil be acting out everything your opponents/society/religion expect you to be. Getting back to the core values of any religion will help some people. Drop the rules, rituals, regulations, politics and control aspect of it.

    Later baby.....
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    Dec 19, 2008 10:54 PM GMT
    These guys have said it all, so I will just give you a HUG and hope for your best. There are three universal virtues that I hope you take in, Courage, Truth and Love.

    Lots of love.
    Luther.
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    Dec 19, 2008 11:52 PM GMT
    Get the hell out of southern Idaho, man. Seriously. I work at UI in Moscow (you know, the school you southern folks think is the awful 'party' school of the state). There's a strong Mormon presence around here, as there is throughout the state, but it doesn't seem as stifling here...the LDS guys I know have managed to live as both gay and LDS. The town itself is much more diverse than anything in your area, and you'll find folks who don't care that you're both gay and Mormon.

    Really, your situation sounds like an unhealthy one. Get out. I'd never tell someone to renounce their religious beliefs, but at least get your ass somewhere that you've got a fighting chance of reconciling your spirituality with your sexuality. Til you do, you're not gonna find contentment.

    Hugs to you, by the way.
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    Dec 20, 2008 12:18 AM GMT
    Hey! Best to talk it out with someone. You're in a tough spot right now! You need someone to talk all of this over with!
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    Dec 20, 2008 5:18 AM GMT
    All the folk tales / false belief systems / cults / religion aside, you need to come to like yourself, first. Understand, you've been brainwashed almost since birth, so it's hard to walk away from, but, you have to ask yourself what's true and proper and what's rubbish. After doing that you need to make the choice that's right for you.

    I grew up on a ranch in Nebraska. I know that nothing could be more natural than bi / gay / hetro. It IS VERY MUCH, the way of the world.

    Until you begin to like yourself, rather than accepting all the hogwash, and guilt, and bull crap that is religion / false belief systems YOU are going to make YOURSELF miserable.

    Understand, also, that you have the ability to shape your own destiny. In a world of 7 BILLION folks, you need to find some that you feel comfortable with. You control whether YOU feel good or YOU feel bad. It's completely in your hands. Right now, you're choosing to allow the cult to make you feel miserable, and, only YOU can change that.

    Religions / cults / false-belief systems PREY upon the weak minded. Guilt and misery are part of the motivational tools of any cult / religion / false belief system. You have to come to ask yourself if that there is a compelling need for you to sign off on the false belief systems, and the folks who promote them, and all the manipulation, hatred, intolerance, and malarkey, that they entail. If you like being miserable, do nothing, otherwise, change things. It's really THAT SIMPLE. Get of the pity pot; take action: either come to like your present situation, or, take action to change it.
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    Dec 20, 2008 5:59 AM GMT
    Sorry that youre suffering.

    Make yourself a time table, it might help. If you have dreams/ goal and future to look forward to, it might make the present more livable.

    Be militant about your expectations for yourself.

    Buy yourself a oneway ticket to SF after graduation, its the perfect antidote after the toxic LDS hangover.

    But SF is expensive and competitive and cut throat (dont be fooled) so do stay in school for now and sharpen your skills and get the credentials you need. Let that be your motivation for the 3.8 GPA

    Maybe in 2011 you wil be here, great job, age 27..and gay weddings will be legal and you will be on the beach staring at the pacific, thinking back at how life used to be and how glad you are you made it happen.

    THINK POSITIVE THOUGHTS.


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    Dec 20, 2008 6:20 AM GMT
    Hey... I have been there... Born and raised in the Church, went to BYU, did the mission... all of it... It is a very complicated thing and I understand. There is no easy answer. I would love to talk further offline if you want.. Shoot me a message and I will tell you my story... J
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    Dec 20, 2008 10:43 PM GMT
    KissingPro saidWOW..........I forget that many of you guys don't live in a big city like NYC. I guess I take things for granted. But even here in NYC, there are guys who are in the closet, and basically, they have a split personalityand life....with wifes or girlfriends/famlies that don't know their "other side".

    I feel for you buddy. Keep coming here to RJ. Most of the guys here are solid and you can make friends and chat. And find a way to see the movie "MILK". It may give you some courage and fresh ideas and remind you that you are not alone, even in these modern times.

    Maybe there are interent sites specifically for men in your situation, and you can chat and trade ideas and stories.

    BTW Bring pride, satisfaction, and good things to your encounters wth men, and that's what you will get in return.....If you bring shame, guilt, excess and unhappiness into it, you wil be acting out everything your opponents/society/religion ( and yes, even many gay people) expect you to be. Getting back to the core values of any religion will help some people. Drop the rules, rituals, regulations, politics and control aspect of it.

    Later baby.....

    .
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    Dec 21, 2008 12:08 AM GMT
    Listen, in the end we cannot run from who or what we are...it just always comes back...its easy to be principled and religious when it does not apply...so a straight person can of course talk about homosexuality as a deviance...but in truth its not his cross to bare...so be honest and true to yourself, because you unlike everyone else, must live with yourself..and whether you understand that sooner or later, is your choice
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    Dec 21, 2008 5:28 AM GMT
    A Mormon eh? *racks shotgun*

    There are lots of chains on you, man.

    Can't you go to another Uni?
  • junknemesis

    Posts: 682

    Dec 22, 2008 7:19 AM GMT
    Many of you gave comforting and sound advice and I thank you for that. The hugs are appreciated too. icon_smile.gif Although I don't really agree with everything everyone said, I respect your views. Thank you for respecting mine. However difficult this situation is I am doing my best to stay optimistic and you know what? If a good guy came along who liked me I would persue a relationship with him. I could stay here at BYUI and take it for what it's worth, like Mickey said, and make the besy of it. On the other hand I can shop around for other universities and locations that are more accepting of a G-LDS guy. (I would of course not know where to look... lol) Moscow was mentioned. (At first I thought of Russia lol) and I could look into that. I think one major thing is just the environment here. It is kind of like a tie that fits more like a noose. I'm not sure what my final descision will be but I can use this Thread as a sort of journal maybe, and keep you guys up-to-date on stuff that happens. That sounds fun doesnt it? Cause I don't think RJ.com has a journal section, and if I does, I missed it. icon_razz.gif Thanks again or the Hugs and Support.
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    Dec 22, 2008 8:01 AM GMT
    Something that I've learned over my academic career is that, generally speaking, a degree is a degree is a degree. If it's an accredited school and you do well and even learn how to network, then that's all that matters. Sure, going to a school that gets a lot of visibility might open a few extra doors, but succeeding at a no-name school will still provide you with everything that you need. So fuck BYUI; go somewhere that you won't spend your evening cram sessions worrying whether you'll get expelled for being who you are.
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    Dec 22, 2008 8:07 AM GMT
    junknemesis saidMany of you gave comforting and sound advice and I thank you for that. The hugs are appreciated too. icon_smile.gif Although I don't really agree with everything everyone said, I respect your views. Thank you for respecting mine. However difficult this situation is I am doing my best to stay optimistic and you know what? If a good guy came along who liked me I would persue a relationship with him. I could stay here at BYUI and take it for what it's worth, like Mickey said, and make the besy of it. On the other hand I can shop around for other universities and locations that are more accepting of a G-LDS guy. (I would of course not know where to look... lol) Moscow was mentioned. (At first I thought of Russia lol) and I could look into that. I think one major thing is just the environment here. It is kind of like a tie that fits more like a noose. I'm not sure what my final descision will be but I can use this Thread as a sort of journal maybe, and keep you guys up-to-date on stuff that happens. That sounds fun doesnt it? Cause I don't think RJ.com has a journal section, and if I does, I missed it. icon_razz.gif Thanks again or the Hugs and Support.


    START NOW... LOOKING FOR ANOTHER COLLEGE!! Actually if they expell you it'd make for a good admissions interview answer/persoanl statement! Come out in defience! Say, "You will not be taking anymore of this gay boy's money!" lol Seriously.... start looking NOW. Come to my college icon_smile.gif Ever been to Maine? (BTW: yes we have indoor plumbing lol)
  • junknemesis

    Posts: 682

    Dec 22, 2008 9:59 AM GMT
    [quote][cite] Ever been to Maine? (BTW: yes we have indoor plumbing lol)[/quote]


    Wow, I never knew! Indoor plumbing is a great advancement! I'm from Minnesota, and we just discovered the secret of the Artesian Well! icon_smile.gif

    *Disclaimer: The previos statement was said in totall good humor and was not meat to be offensive in anyway*

    **Disclaimer Disclaimer: No Minnesotans were harmed in the making of this post**