Disturbing Article on Green Leafy Vegetables

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 17, 2014 3:24 PM GMT
    I've been trying to eat more and more green leafy vegetables the past few years. I even bought a very expensive blender last week so I can add even more greens to my morning smoothies.

    I was searching for healthy smoothie ingredients this morning and ran across this disturbing article.

    http://www.thehealthyhomeeconomist.com/how-green-smoothies-can-devastate-your-health/
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    Feb 17, 2014 10:14 PM GMT
    She appears to be a proud member of the Weston A. Price foundation. They promote all sorts of dietary claims that have never been scientifically proven. Their claims may be true, or they may be entirely bogus; who knows. I'd be more inclined to believe her claims if she was a registered dietician.
  • madsexy

    Posts: 4843

    Feb 17, 2014 10:30 PM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal saidShe appears to be a proud member of the Weston A. Price foundation. They promote all sorts of dietary claims that have never been scientifically proven. Their claims may be true, or they may be entirely bogus; who knows. I'd be more inclined to believe her claims if she was a registered dietician.

    A friend here who is an MD but went into nutrition as an RD (for a sports team) told me this about a year ago. I wasn't at risk, though, as I'm not predisposed to enjoy green drinks or even green vegetables more than occasionally and in moderation. But he told me about 3
    cases of his team member "patients" who'd had adverse medical conditions which were traced to it. So it could very well be that the 20% was accurate, figuring that maybe 15 of the total team were getting on the green drink wagon, so 3 of them had the predisposition to have the issues?
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Feb 17, 2014 10:39 PM GMT
    There are always exceptions to every rule.

    All these studies have been done on groups of people who are representative of the population as a whole, but for any one individual, with their own unique genetic heritage and biochemistry/physiology/medical history, etc., even the so called healthiest foods can possibly be harmful, especially in large amounts.

    Some people can have too much of a so called good thing.

    The era of sequencing an individual`s genome opens up the possibility of a very closely defined 'healthy' diet that suits them much more than a general one. Such a diet might need to exclude otherwise healthy foods for that individual.

  • NifeK

    Posts: 19

    Feb 17, 2014 10:47 PM GMT
    Of course the blog itself has a conflict of interest in the first place, in the end it recommends that you consume a product that it links to on amazon....

    More neutral sources such as http://www.whfoods.com/genpage.php?tname=george&dbid=48 actually lists the studies that it refers to in the end in case the reader wants to view those and arrive to their own conclusion
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 17, 2014 11:20 PM GMT
    Well, the real kicker for me is I don't even like green leafy vegetables, but I've been forcing the shit down in the form of smoothies for quite some time because I had read they were one of the "super foods." icon_mad.gif
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    Feb 17, 2014 11:51 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidI'm am so totally confused about all these studies where one study is showing a benefit and the other claiming something is detrimental to one's health. There was a guest on the radio show "CoastToCoastAM" last night who discussed 3 recent studies that claim that taking multivitamin supplements are "a waste of money" - something I was really surprised to hear about.


    The sun is necessary to produce vitamin D, but it's also a known carcinogen. The safer sun depends on latitude, time of the day, time of the year, eye color, skin color, etc. It's tricky and perhaps impossible to determine what is a risk-free exposure.

    Even oxygen, indispensable to our life, is killing us, slowly but surely.

    Why does everything has to be 100% safe, risk-free? Assuming any such thing exists... I have yet to find a food that doesn't have a dark side.

    Everything takes a little bite out of you. Eventually even the most careful accumulates so many bites he dies.

    So let's keep eating leafy vegetables with all disadvantages included. We're damned if we do, even more damned if we don't! icon_lol.gif
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    Feb 18, 2014 12:45 AM GMT
    wait, so i need to stop eating spinach on my daily sandwiches?
  • 1blind_dog

    Posts: 376

    Feb 18, 2014 2:41 AM GMT
    So the lesson is cook your green veggies before eating or adding them to your smoothie?
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:13 AM GMT
    dre4mbo1 saidwait, so i need to stop eating spinach on my daily sandwiches?

    Your time is up; call the undertaker.
  • GWriter

    Posts: 1446

    Feb 18, 2014 3:15 AM GMT
    "The poison is in the dose."
    Unless one suffers from a rare genetic disorder, any natural food should be healthy in moderation. I think a lot of these studies focus on the outliers, or perform tests with extreme doses (usually on animals), which don't really apply to the real world. It seems to me that variety and balance are the keys to good health.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:19 AM GMT
    GWriter said"The poison is in the dose."
    Unless one suffers from a rare genetic disorder, any natural food should be healthy in moderation. I think a lot of these studies focus on the outliers, or perform tests with extreme doses (usually on animals), which don't really apply to the real world. It seems to me that variety and balance are the keys to good health.

    Yes, but talking about the majority is boring and doesn't sell newspapers, grab eyeballs, etc.
  • LJay

    Posts: 11612

    Feb 18, 2014 3:20 AM GMT
    This says a lot about why juicing is not the greatest of ideas. Some people just go overboard.
  • GWriter

    Posts: 1446

    Feb 18, 2014 3:31 AM GMT
    Lumpyoatmeal said
    GWriter said"The poison is in the dose."
    Unless one suffers from a rare genetic disorder, any natural food should be healthy in moderation. I think a lot of these studies focus on the outliers, or perform tests with extreme doses (usually on animals), which don't really apply to the real world. It seems to me that variety and balance are the keys to good health.

    Yes, but talking about the majority is boring and doesn't sell newspapers, grab eyeballs, etc.


    Exactly!
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    Feb 18, 2014 4:20 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidI'm am so totally confused about all these studies where one study is showing a benefit and the other claiming something is detrimental to one's health. There was a guest on the radio show "CoastToCoastAM" last night who discussed 3 recent studies that claim that taking multivitamin supplements are "a waste of money" - something I was really surprised to hear about.

    What's good for you today will be bad for you tomorrow, and vice versa. Eat whatever the fuck you want.
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    Feb 18, 2014 4:59 AM GMT
    Plants can't run away from animals who want to eat them. So they make poisons. It's what they do. Then sneaky animals evolved livers. Sneakier ones learned to use fire. It's all a battle.
  • thadjock

    Posts: 2183

    Feb 19, 2014 8:58 PM GMT
    shortbutsweet said
    What's good for you today will be bad for you tomorrow, and vice versa. Eat whatever the fuck you want.


    QFT words to live by
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    Feb 20, 2014 2:25 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    shortbutsweet said
    southbeach1500 saidI'm am so totally confused about all these studies where one study is showing a benefit and the other claiming something is detrimental to one's health. There was a guest on the radio show "CoastToCoastAM" last night who discussed 3 recent studies that claim that taking multivitamin supplements are "a waste of money" - something I was really surprised to hear about.

    What's good for you today will be bad for you tomorrow, and vice versa. Eat whatever the fuck you want.


    I go back and forth on that adage. Perhaps another good rule of thumb is, "everything in moderation."

    Or perhaps the version attributed to Oscar Wilde: "Everything in moderation, including moderation."
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    Feb 20, 2014 4:39 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    mindgarden saidPlants can't run away from animals who want to eat them. So they make poisons. It's what they do. Then sneaky animals evolved livers. Sneakier ones learned to use fire. It's all a battle.


    Heh heh... I love your "sneaky" analogy.

    Most animals that graze on greens and grains are ruminant animals which means they have four-chambered stomachs. So they have four times the digestive capacity to completely break down the cellulose and nutrients in grains compared to humans who only have one stomach. Animals such as cows, sheep, and many more four legged mammals are ruminant animals.

    The process involved in having a four-chambered stomach has to do with some of the chambers and their fermentation of grains. Fermentation helps to break down the structure of grains for improved absorption of nutrients. This is why humans can ferment greens/grains by soaking them in water and/or with some buttermilk for a couple of days. Buttermilk acts like a fermentating agent to break down grains.


    channing-tatum-so-confused-right-now-gif
    So I should start putting buttermilk in my smoothies?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2014 5:22 AM GMT
    My head hurts. I give up. I'm going back to McDonalds. icon_mad.gif
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Feb 20, 2014 5:30 AM GMT
    The answer is to eat a balanced diet and not rely on too much of any one thing.
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    Feb 20, 2014 5:52 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said^

    LOL

    Don't sweat it, Channing!

    Actually, the fermentation with buttermilk for grains applies to foods such as rice, oatmeal, beans and other types of legumes. You could also do this with wheat flour and most types of flour but that can be a bit cumbersome and messy.

    As NifeK pointed out in a contribution to this thread a few posts up, fermentation seems to be the way to help break down green leafy vegetables and grains. He was referring to the fermented juice products sold on amazon.com in the link provided in the web page in your original post.


    It's all about the fermentation process!


    Actually not. But... 99% of the people who use the word "fermentation" don't know what it means. (They haven't taken my class!)

    But... Back in the 70's everyone had their tits in a wringer over tansy ragowort. An invasive weed from Australia or some such place that was spreading around the west coast and killing cows and sheep. But, hey, cows and sheep in Australia (or where ever it was) weren't getting sick. So some intrepid microbiologist isolated the bacteria from Austrailian (or whatever) sheep and force fed it to American cows et voila! Nobody worries about it any more. (They also imported some moths to eat it.)
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    Feb 20, 2014 7:04 AM GMT
    Rather than fermenting the grains I'd go with sprouting them. I have an Easy Sprout Sprouter and it is easy; the hard part for me is remembering to rinse the seeds every 8 or 12 hours. My favorite thing to sprout is lentils.

    http://goo.gl/fRrQ6D
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Feb 20, 2014 8:14 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidButtermilk acts like a fermenting agent to break down grains.

    I missed this statement and I also question its correctness.

    My understanding is that there are several different species of Lactobacillus and the ones that ferment milk don't do squat if you try and ferment vegetables with them, and likewise if you try to ferment grains with them. Similarly, the species of Lactobacillus that ferment grains don't do anything if you try and ferment milk or vegetables with them.

    My theory about this confusion is that all the different species start with the word Lactobacillus and people think that there's just one that does the fermenting, not realizing that there are several and they each have specific (and different) requirements for their environment in order to grow and produce lactic acid.

    I noticed this confusion on forums about pickling where people would recommend jump starting a vegetable ferment by adding some yogurt whey.

    The book I read about fermenting is Wild Fermentation by Sandor Ellix Katz.

    This wikipedia link might also be helpful.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lactobacillus
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4864

    Feb 20, 2014 8:25 AM GMT
    Whatever you eat, someone will say that it's bad for you and you shouldn't eat it.

    Probably it's not a good idea to eat huge quantities of any particular food but rather, have a balanced diet. There really isn't any food that, except for people who have a particular food sensitivity, will cause harm in modest quantities.

    When I was young, rhubarb was a common desert but, even though it was high in oxalic acid which is toxic, so far as I know no one was harmed. Potato eyes are toxic and people who eat a stew of potato eyes can experience problems, yet eating a few potato eyes with potatoes is harmless.