POST SURGERY WORKOUT

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    Feb 17, 2014 5:56 PM GMT
    It's three and half months since I had a radical nephrectomy (removal of right kidney and ureter)with some scars, mostly from belly button downward.

    The doctors have now given me the go-ahead to go back to the gym for fitness training.

    Begin warm-up with 20 to 30 minutes aerobics oscillating between 5.5 and 7 km/hour for the first week, and possibly gradually add interval running within two weeks.

    Then some rotational stretches, followed by two weeks of a tour of all the muscle groups every two days at relatively low weights, to trigger memory of muscle (via the brain). Finally some "stationary" planks and lower back exercises for core muscles.

    All Tips & Suggestions on aerobics and weight training welcome!
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Feb 17, 2014 6:05 PM GMT
    take it really slow ... that sounds like some really radical surgery .... it's going to take more then 3 months for your body to recover ... the last thing you want to do is cause it more damage
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:17 AM GMT
    I had a triple coronary artery bypass June 13. June 14, Baylor Heart Hospital had me walking the stairs in the hospital. 2 weeks after surgery, I did an intense, monitored, 6 week cardiac rehab program. Understand, I was cut in half for the "on pump" surgery. It's traumatic, but, it gets better.

    Get to the gym; get moving. You'll recover faster; you'll feel better.

    Baylor calls me one of their most successful patients...ever.

    I can presently take my heart rate out to 190. 167 BPM is the max for my age. My doctors tell me to feel free to take it to 200 BPM and have told me to compete this fall.

    Manage pain you have ahead of time. Tramidol is good for this. As the surgeon says, "stay ahead of any pain."

    It's been 3.5 months. Time to get going.

    Let pain be your guide, but, it's high time to get moving.

    Get 'er done.

    You should be in touch with a physical therapist (not a "trainer") who is in touch with what needs done as part of your rehab. These aren't the folks to ask, although some do work in medical. Most good doctors recommend aggressive rehab right away. As I said, I was walking the stairs in the hospital with the drains still in my chest. Did it hurt? Oh, yeah, but, it's important to get moving, for lots of reasons.
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:23 AM GMT
    hungarian saidI had a Radical prostatectomy last Dec. Went back to the gym 2 months later...avoided squats and lifted slowly. Back to where I was before...The DaVinci Robotic surgery is less evasive hence the rapid recovery. (UPDATE--->PSA undetectable!) GET YOUR PROSTATE CHECKED...! 1 IN 6 MEN GET PROSTATE CANCER!


    But, PSA is not a good indicator of prostate cancer, and they recommend waiting until 60, now, until you get the PSA test. (Mine was a 0.4). Most men will get some level of prostate cancer. Most of them will outlive it.. However...some don't and if it spreads up, and can become a real problem. Most good medical bodies say that prostate / PSA is over-treated.

    New medical research indicates most prostate cancer is relative to the testosterone estrogen ratio (estrogen too high, and testosterone too low) as opposed to the wrongly held belief that's testosterone related. Rather, new research indicates, it's the amount testosterone to the estrogen, that causes the problem (test is too low; e2 is too high). Early on HRT can avoid this.

    Also, masturbation / sex will lower PSA and there's a lower risk of prostate cancer (the icky stuff doesn't collect that way).
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:30 AM GMT
    Geez Chuck, you had bypass surgery? Was it precautionary surgery? Or did you have a heart attack? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just kinda curious about these things as I get older.
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:32 AM GMT
    xrichx saidGeez Chuck, you had bypass surgery? Was it precautionary surgery? Or did you have a heart attack? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just kinda curious about these things as I get older.


    I had an elective 3 CABG. I did not have a MI / heart attack. I made the call as opposed to stenting (you can't get the stents out).

    My cholesterol is 100 LDL, and HDL is 38. My bp is 120/73 at 79 (non-medicated).

    Cost: $219,000.

    I've taken red meat pretty much entirely out of my diet and I gobble down 6G of flaxseed, and 6G of fish oil every day. I didn't have enough fat in my diet before, and I have the gene. I'm going to up my vitamin C, as lots of positive research has come back on that. My CK has gone high on statins, and I'm probably not going to take a statin as statins raise more mortalities, and ruin muscle.
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:32 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    xrichx saidGeez Chuck, you had bypass surgery? Was it precautionary surgery? Or did you have a heart attack? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just kinda curious about these things as I get older.


    I had an elective 3 CABG. I did not have a MI / heart attack. I made the call as opposed to stenting (you can't get the stents out).

    My cholesterol is 100 LDL, and HDL is 38. My bp is 120/73 at 79.

    Cost: $219,000.
    Heart Transplant $1,090,000 icon_razz.gif
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:34 AM GMT
    RadRTT said
    chuckystud said
    xrichx saidGeez Chuck, you had bypass surgery? Was it precautionary surgery? Or did you have a heart attack? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just kinda curious about these things as I get older.


    I had an elective 3 CABG. I did not have a MI / heart attack. I made the call as opposed to stenting (you can't get the stents out).

    My cholesterol is 100 LDL, and HDL is 38. My bp is 120/73 at 79.

    Cost: $219,000.
    Heart Transplant $1,090,000 icon_razz.gif


    Yep, welcome to U.S. "medicine."
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:38 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidI would reset all weight limits to a lighter regime in which you could lift with 15 repetitions and slowly build them back up over many months.


    I'm almost back to per-surgery levels. The faster you bring the weights up, the faster you'll prevent and break up callogen. My surgeon, my cardiologist, and my PT, all had me be aggressive in my chest rehab. There really is no benefit in going slowly. That doesn't mean to ignore pain. That means to manage it; train through it; and the pain will go away. That's how rehab works.

    When I had my bicep reattached in 2009, I had my cast off in 12 days. I had a full range of motion in 21. Most folks don't get there until 90 days.

    Rehab is what you make it.
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:40 AM GMT
    RadRTT said
    chuckystud said
    xrichx saidGeez Chuck, you had bypass surgery? Was it precautionary surgery? Or did you have a heart attack? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just kinda curious about these things as I get older.


    I had an elective 3 CABG. I did not have a MI / heart attack. I made the call as opposed to stenting (you can't get the stents out).

    My cholesterol is 100 LDL, and HDL is 38. My bp is 120/73 at 79.

    Cost: $219,000.
    Heart Transplant $1,090,000 icon_razz.gif


    Ain't nothing like waking up on the ventilator realizing you've made it.

    My surgeon called me last week. Although it's an MF, I told him I was glad I did it. It was the best treatment path for an active person like me in the big picture. My surgeon agreed with me.
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:42 AM GMT
    chuckystud said
    xrichx saidGeez Chuck, you had bypass surgery? Was it precautionary surgery? Or did you have a heart attack? You don't have to answer if you don't want to. I'm just kinda curious about these things as I get older.


    I had an elective 3 CABG. I did not have a MI / heart attack. I made the call as opposed to stenting (you can't get the stents out).

    My cholesterol is 100 LDL, and HDL is 38. My bp is 120/73 at 79 (non-medicated).

    Cost: $219,000.

    I've taken red meat pretty much entirely out of my diet and I gobble down 6G of flaxseed, and 6G of fish oil every day. I didn't have enough fat in my diet before, and I have the gene. I'm going to up my vitamin C, as lots of positive research has come back on that. My CK has gone high on statins, and I'm probably not going to take a statin as statins raise more mortalities, and ruin muscle.
    Yeah, I try to be more conscious of the foods I eat these days. Mostly chicken, some fish, and occasional beef.

    Glad to hear you're making a good recovery.
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    Feb 18, 2014 3:44 AM GMT
    Sam54 saidIt's three and half months since I had a radical nephrectomy (removal of right kidney and ureter)with some scars, mostly from belly button downward.

    The doctors have now given me the go-ahead to go back to the gym for fitness training.

    Begin warm-up with 20 to 30 minutes aerobics oscillating between 5.5 and 7 km/hour for the first week, and possibly gradually add interval running within two weeks.

    Then some rotational stretches, followed by two weeks of a tour of all the muscle groups every two days at relatively low weights, to trigger memory of muscle (via the brain). Finally some "stationary" planks and lower back exercises for core muscles.

    All Tips & Suggestions on aerobics and weight training welcome!
    Have you considered adding swimming to your routine?
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    Feb 18, 2014 7:32 AM GMT
    Thanks for the response to my query. It seems Chuck hogged up the post!

    Currently, swimming pool is not accessible.
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    Feb 18, 2014 7:43 AM GMT
    Sam54 saidThanks for the response to my query. It seems Chuck hogged up the post!

    Currently, swimming pool is not accessible.


    I've done the surgery and the rehab numerous times, and, have some of the very best experts in the country that I work with. (My heart surgeon is rated 12'th in the U.S. My ortho has a degree in biomedical engineering from MIT, and did his residency at John Hopkins. One of my PT's works with NFL players. Etc.)

    Swimming is low impact, but, very easy to get unbalanced musculary. Do what you like, but, there's likely little reason to hold back. Bone heals in about 8 weeks; most incisions, faster. It's the collagen, according to my doctors that causes most pain issues. The sooner you break that up, the better off you are.

    My ortho says.."Get right back on the horse. You don't want adhesions forming." I was lifting weights in cardiac rehab just two weeks after surgery, and, as I said, walking the stairs in the hospital the day after open heart surgery. Sooner is almost always better, for a long list of reasons, but, you have to make sure you heal. E.g., my sterum was super glued on the outside but wired with stainless steel wires on the inside. That hurts for a long time, but, quit hurting as much as soon as I started lifting again.

    Best person for your rehab, your doctor and a good PT. Most folks here are lay people, including me, but, I've had lots of experience with rehab.
  • frogman89

    Posts: 418

    Feb 18, 2014 10:15 AM GMT
    Sam54 saidIt's three and half months since I had a radical nephrectomy (removal of right kidney and ureter)with some scars, mostly from belly button downward.

    The doctors have now given me the go-ahead to go back to the gym for fitness training.

    Begin warm-up with 20 to 30 minutes aerobics oscillating between 5.5 and 7 km/hour for the first week, and possibly gradually add interval running within two weeks.

    Then some rotational stretches, followed by two weeks of a tour of all the muscle groups every two days at relatively low weights, to trigger memory of muscle (via the brain). Finally some "stationary" planks and lower back exercises for core muscles.

    All Tips & Suggestions on aerobics and weight training welcome!

    Abdominal surgery is very different from thoracic surgery. You can't compare a thoracic scar with an abdominal scar.

    When you lift, the pressures your abdomen has to endure vary extremely. The abdominal scar is under a lot more stress and if you don't raise the strain slowly, it is highly possible that the scar will develop a hernia. That means the scar is insufficient and/or has gaps. Parts of your intestine could get twisted and jammed in those gaps. The consequence: This part of your intestine dies and you have to undergo another surgery. Another scar. Another risk.

    3 1/2 months is enough though to go back to your training. Listen to your body and go slowly. Don't go from A to Z from one day to another.
    Hungarian did it the right way.



    One thing to PSA. It is controversial, yeah. A PSA > 4 < 10 ng/mL is considered a grey area and a PSA > 10 ng/mL is suspect to be cancer and the prostate should be biopsied as a consequence. Yes, PSA is not very specific for cancer, but it can be used a parameter to follow up the success of the therapy.




    Last thing to mention here... Chuckystud, 38 is a very low level of HDL. It is better to have a high level of it. But your LDL/HDL-ratio is good, so your lipid panel is indeed good.
    The statement "Get right back on the horse. You don't want adhesions forming" is a very unprofessional statement made by your ortho. As of now we know nothing about why adhesions form. Some people have surgery once and are massively adhered afterwards. Some people have multiple surgeries and have not a single adhesion. And we do not know why. To say that getting into movement and sports can prevent adhesions to form is absolutely not firm.

    "Let pain be your guide" is not a good advice either. Most damage you cause doesn't make any pain.
    Tramidol is not a good painkiller. Well, technically it is. But it's an opiate and is highly addictive. You should always use non-opiates as painkillers if possible.

    Statins only raise mortality if you take them with fibrates. Statins alone though are a very important column in the therapy of coronary arteriosclerosis and they reduce mortality.

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    Feb 18, 2014 9:55 PM GMT
    Thanks for the response.

    Was interested in what series of abs exercises would be best for the upcoming month (planks? no weights dynamic)?

    Today was my first day, cardio light on the treadmill alternating between 5.5 and 7 km/h with short 2 minute runs to 10 km/h. The rest was performing one exercise (3-4 sets) per muscle group. Will return to gym the day after tomorrow (one day, gym; one day, break).

    I am delighted that Chuck recovered well. He drew from his particular experience, which is chest surgery, to generalize about recovery and fitness training. They removed my right kidney and made a 10 cm incision in my stomach. The scars are healing well. To note, I only register medical opinions from MD's.
  • frogman89

    Posts: 418

    Feb 18, 2014 10:06 PM GMT
    Sam54 saidThanks for the response.

    Was interested in what series of abs exercises would be best for the upcoming month (planks? no weights dynamic)?

    Today was my first day, cardio light on the treadmill alternating between 5.5 and 7 km/h with short 2 minute runs to 10 km/h. The rest was performing one exercise (3-4 sets) per muscle group. Will return to gym the day after tomorrow (one day, gym; one day, break).

    I am delighted that Chuck recovered well. He drew from his particular experience, which is chest surgery, to generalize about recovery and fitness training. They removed my right kidney and made a 10 cm incision in my stomach. The scars are healing well. To note, I only register medical opinions from MD's.

    Here's one.
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    Feb 19, 2014 2:47 AM GMT
    Doctors had me walking the hospital corridors hours after my intentionally non-laparoscopic splenectomy which involved a horizontal nine inch incision. I'd do "rounds" walking the floors with my wheeled IV stand at 3am to distract myself from the pain. I was discharged at 160lbs six days later, then walked the few blocks home, and continued frequently walking the block long, carpeted empty corridors of my apartment building at all hours. Two weeks after surgery when my staples were removed I was told to resume lifting and cardio immediately, which I did in my building's gym. I'd incline walk the treadmill and do Smith Squats without great difficulty but it'd take me 20 agonizing minutes to get from lying to standing after benching. It was pretty painful but I regained full mobility and was completely pain free within a couple months (somewhat of a record), during which time I not once entered any vehicle. I was lucky to live in Manhattan just a few blocks from everything. Experiences may vary.
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    Feb 19, 2014 8:53 AM GMT
    frogman89 said
    Sam54 saidThanks for the response.

    Was interested in what series of abs exercises would be best for the upcoming month (planks? no weights dynamic)?

    Today was my first day, cardio light on the treadmill alternating between 5.5 and 7 km/h with short 2 minute runs to 10 km/h. The rest was performing one exercise (3-4 sets) per muscle group. Will return to gym the day after tomorrow (one day, gym; one day, break).

    I am delighted that Chuck recovered well. He drew from his particular experience, which is chest surgery, to generalize about recovery and fitness training. They removed my right kidney and made a 10 cm incision in my stomach. The scars are healing well. To note, I only register medical opinions from MD's.

    Here's one.


    I gathered from your earlier response. My response was to suggest that I ignore medical opinions from lay people, including myself.

    What I cannot seem to get from anybody here is exercises that would be most beneficial for someone returning to the gym after three and half month hiatus, especially core exercises.

    The