A heartbreaking reality

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    Feb 22, 2014 2:55 AM GMT
    Watch this video




    I think internalizing the sense of inferiority in minority kids from a very young age is the cruelest face of racism. Fight against racism has to start from there.

    It is not totally unrelated to a lot of discussions in this forum. Except that usually people don't think about why they feel the way that they do about different races.
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    Feb 22, 2014 3:31 AM GMT
    The apple don't fall far from the tree...
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    Feb 22, 2014 4:41 AM GMT
    So what's the takeaway here? American kids are dumb and racist? icon_razz.gif
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    Feb 22, 2014 6:59 AM GMT
    hellass saidSo what's the takeaway here? American kids are dumb and racist? icon_razz.gif


    Joking about this is not cool.
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    Feb 22, 2014 7:06 AM GMT
    Sad.....
    Great post..

    A few here would Still fail the test icon_rolleyes.gif
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Feb 22, 2014 7:24 AM GMT
    I understand the concept, but it is a bad test. They should have used real humans to get real results. What you are seeing the child interpret is not human being related. In their mind the objects are inanimate and they are looking at them like you would look at a white hat and a black hat. Or if you put two white people or two black people in front of them, one dressed in black and the other white and asked which was the bad person, they would point to the one dressed in black. Their minds are not old enough yet to take the leap from a nonhuman object and correlate it into terms of humanity. The doll is just the doll. You could try the experiment with a white stuffed dog and a black stuff dog and the results would be the same. Bad test to be giving a child and then to ask which one looks most like them is absolutely uncalled for. They are not mentally relating a doll to their own human likeness. icon_mad.gif Never, ever hurt a child for any reason.
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    Feb 22, 2014 7:34 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidI understand the concept, but it is a bad test. They should have used real humans to get real results. What you are seeing the child interpret is not human being related. In their mind the objects are inanimate and they are looking at them like you would look at a white hat and a black hat. Or if you put two white people or two black people in front of them, one dressed in black and the other white and asked which was the bad person, they would point to the one dressed in black. Their minds are not old enough yet to take the leap from a nonhuman object and correlate it into terms of humanity. The doll is just the doll. You could try the experiment with a white stuffed dog and a black stuff dog and the results would be the same. Bad test to be giving a child and then to ask which one looks most like them is absolutely uncalled for. They are not mentally relating a doll to their own human likeness. icon_mad.gif



    What you are saying about kids looking at dolls as inanimate objects is absolutely wrong. In fact, there was a recent study (which was shown on CNN) that showed how infants understand the difference between a bad doll and a good doll, before they can even talk! The kids in this study are 3-4 years old and older.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Feb 22, 2014 7:39 AM GMT
    morningsmile said
    AMoonHawk saidI understand the concept, but it is a bad test. They should have used real humans to get real results. What you are seeing the child interpret is not human being related. In their mind the objects are inanimate and they are looking at them like you would look at a white hat and a black hat. Or if you put two white people or two black people in front of them, one dressed in black and the other white and asked which was the bad person, they would point to the one dressed in black. Their minds are not old enough yet to take the leap from a nonhuman object and correlate it into terms of humanity. The doll is just the doll. You could try the experiment with a white stuffed dog and a black stuff dog and the results would be the same. Bad test to be giving a child and then to ask which one looks most like them is absolutely uncalled for. They are not mentally relating a doll to their own human likeness. icon_mad.gif



    What you are saying about kids looking at dolls as inanimate objects is absolutely wrong. In fact, there was a recent study (which was shown on CNN) that showed how infants understand the difference between a bad doll and a good doll, before they can even talk! The kids in this study are 3-4 years old and older.


    I disagree completely. Show that same test with real live black baby and white baby, or test proves nothing.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Feb 22, 2014 7:45 AM GMT
    As a matter of fact, show me the test using real babies, and I'll bet you that you get the opposite results. Just make sure both the babies are cute and they are not crying.
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    Feb 22, 2014 7:58 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk said
    morningsmile said
    AMoonHawk saidI understand the concept, but it is a bad test. They should have used real humans to get real results. What you are seeing the child interpret is not human being related. In their mind the objects are inanimate and they are looking at them like you would look at a white hat and a black hat. Or if you put two white people or two black people in front of them, one dressed in black and the other white and asked which was the bad person, they would point to the one dressed in black. Their minds are not old enough yet to take the leap from a nonhuman object and correlate it into terms of humanity. The doll is just the doll. You could try the experiment with a white stuffed dog and a black stuff dog and the results would be the same. Bad test to be giving a child and then to ask which one looks most like them is absolutely uncalled for. They are not mentally relating a doll to their own human likeness. icon_mad.gif



    What you are saying about kids looking at dolls as inanimate objects is absolutely wrong. In fact, there was a recent study (which was shown on CNN) that showed how infants understand the difference between a bad doll and a good doll, before they can even talk! The kids in this study are 3-4 years old and older.


    I disagree completely. Show that same test with real live black baby and white baby, or test proves nothing.


    Make two identical babies with identical actions and only different skin color, run the test and compare the results! You can't?! That's why they used dolls!

    The results of the same study were used in desegregation cases including Brown v. Board of Education.

    You really think African Americans and other minorities don't struggle with this?!
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    Feb 22, 2014 8:01 AM GMT
    That video is heartbreaking for some
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    Feb 22, 2014 8:51 AM GMT
    hellass saidSo what's the takeaway here? American kids are dumb and racist? icon_razz.gif


    Although not perfect, I believe America is one of the best places to live for equality among races compared to other countries. This study agrees:

    Map-shows-worlds-most-racist-countries.j
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Feb 22, 2014 8:52 AM GMT
    morningsmile said
    AMoonHawk said
    morningsmile said
    AMoonHawk saidI understand the concept, but it is a bad test. They should have used real humans to get real results. What you are seeing the child interpret is not human being related. In their mind the objects are inanimate and they are looking at them like you would look at a white hat and a black hat. Or if you put two white people or two black people in front of them, one dressed in black and the other white and asked which was the bad person, they would point to the one dressed in black. Their minds are not old enough yet to take the leap from a nonhuman object and correlate it into terms of humanity. The doll is just the doll. You could try the experiment with a white stuffed dog and a black stuff dog and the results would be the same. Bad test to be giving a child and then to ask which one looks most like them is absolutely uncalled for. They are not mentally relating a doll to their own human likeness. icon_mad.gif



    What you are saying about kids looking at dolls as inanimate objects is absolutely wrong. In fact, there was a recent study (which was shown on CNN) that showed how infants understand the difference between a bad doll and a good doll, before they can even talk! The kids in this study are 3-4 years old and older.


    I disagree completely. Show that same test with real live black baby and white baby, or test proves nothing.


    Make two identical babies with identical actions and only different skin color, run the test and compare the results! You can't?! That's why they used dolls!

    The results of the same study were used in desegregation cases including Brown v. Board of Education.

    You really think African Americans and other minorities don't struggle with this?!

    who are you? Jimmy Kimmel? all they're doing is messing with kids heads.
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    Feb 22, 2014 9:01 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk said
    morningsmile said
    AMoonHawk said
    morningsmile said
    AMoonHawk saidI understand the concept, but it is a bad test. They should have used real humans to get real results. What you are seeing the child interpret is not human being related. In their mind the objects are inanimate and they are looking at them like you would look at a white hat and a black hat. Or if you put two white people or two black people in front of them, one dressed in black and the other white and asked which was the bad person, they would point to the one dressed in black. Their minds are not old enough yet to take the leap from a nonhuman object and correlate it into terms of humanity. The doll is just the doll. You could try the experiment with a white stuffed dog and a black stuff dog and the results would be the same. Bad test to be giving a child and then to ask which one looks most like them is absolutely uncalled for. They are not mentally relating a doll to their own human likeness. icon_mad.gif



    What you are saying about kids looking at dolls as inanimate objects is absolutely wrong. In fact, there was a recent study (which was shown on CNN) that showed how infants understand the difference between a bad doll and a good doll, before they can even talk! The kids in this study are 3-4 years old and older.


    I disagree completely. Show that same test with real live black baby and white baby, or test proves nothing.


    Make two identical babies with identical actions and only different skin color, run the test and compare the results! You can't?! That's why they used dolls!

    The results of the same study were used in desegregation cases including Brown v. Board of Education.

    You really think African Americans and other minorities don't struggle with this?!

    who are you? Jimmy Kimmel? all they're doing is messing with kids heads.


    That study is far from messing with a child's head. The Milgram experiment is an example of messing with a human's "head" (GOD I miss college).

    If anything this study will offer self reflection in later years to their own views on humanity.
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    Feb 22, 2014 9:06 AM GMT
    I had enough of watching that with the kid in the yellow shirt when he lied about which doll he thinks he looks like. He started to go for the dark doll but then went to the lighter and then he had trouble making up a reason for his choice, seemingly because he knew he wasn't being truthful. He looked embarrassed to be truthful about how he saw himself. Oh how sad. I didn't know it was that pronounced. What a horrible way for a kid to grow up, to not be comfortable in their own skin.

    Yet I wonder though if that's not similar to gay people thinking they'd rather be str8. The difference being, of course, that kids probably aren't committing suicide due to their skin.
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    Feb 22, 2014 9:12 AM GMT
    AnOriginal said
    hellass saidSo what's the takeaway here? American kids are dumb and racist? icon_razz.gif


    Although not perfect, I believe America is one of the best places to live for equality among races compared to other countries. This study agrees:

    Map-shows-worlds-most-racist-countries.j

    Can you provide a link to this article?
    I'm skeptical about 'Times of Pakistan'
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    Feb 22, 2014 9:19 AM GMT
    What I will say is I hope their parents encourage their children to love themselves as well as others regardless of ethnicity.

    We created a society that separates humans on so many different levels.

    I'll never forget I once found myself in a Cracker Barrel and I saw a black Santa Claus figurine. It looked so strange to me. I knew consciously there was nothing truly bad or wrong with a black Santa Claus, but I never saw one prior. There's nothing wrong with color, but our perceived culture via media is far from reality.

    I'd also encourage all black actors to refuse to play stereotypical roles, and Asians too.

    As a side note: I'm finding race becomes an annoying issue to those that grow older. It's usually when you're young that you obviously support equality among races and are more liberal in your views. Then as you grow older you feel like it's beating a dead horse... The thing is racism and homophobia will always exist, and is alive for many. Hopefully homophobia will continue to be accepted by more people and the hateful will only talk bad about gays behind closed doors, instead of spreading their hate. I also question how parents act towards minorities vs. Caucasians. I remember Oprah stating how her mothers(I believe it was her mother) eyes would glow when she talked about the white children that she took care of.

    Also the fact the jury questioned Jordan Davis death not being a murder is beyond me. I haven't followed the case closely, but you'd better have a pretty damn good reason for firing 10 bullets at someone. A better reason than supposedly "seeing a gun from a window" that was probably a well thought out defense.



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    Feb 22, 2014 9:23 AM GMT
    Harry7785 said
    AnOriginal said
    hellass saidSo what's the takeaway here? American kids are dumb and racist? icon_razz.gif


    Although not perfect, I believe America is one of the best places to live for equality among races compared to other countries. This study agrees:

    Map-shows-worlds-most-racist-countries.j

    Can you provide a link to this article?
    I'm skeptical about 'Times of Pakistan'


    Hi Harry of course http://m.washingtonpost.com/blogs/worldviews/wp/2013/05/15/a-fascinating-map-of-the-worlds-most-and-least-racially-tolerant-countries/
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    Feb 22, 2014 10:01 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk said
    morningsmile said
    AMoonHawk saidI understand the concept, but it is a bad test. They should have used real humans to get real results. What you are seeing the child interpret is not human being related. In their mind the objects are inanimate and they are looking at them like you would look at a white hat and a black hat. Or if you put two white people or two black people in front of them, one dressed in black and the other white and asked which was the bad person, they would point to the one dressed in black. Their minds are not old enough yet to take the leap from a nonhuman object and correlate it into terms of humanity. The doll is just the doll. You could try the experiment with a white stuffed dog and a black stuff dog and the results would be the same. Bad test to be giving a child and then to ask which one looks most like them is absolutely uncalled for. They are not mentally relating a doll to their own human likeness. icon_mad.gif



    What you are saying about kids looking at dolls as inanimate objects is absolutely wrong. In fact, there was a recent study (which was shown on CNN) that showed how infants understand the difference between a bad doll and a good doll, before they can even talk! The kids in this study are 3-4 years old and older.


    I disagree completely. Show that same test with real live black baby and white baby, or test proves nothing.


    Yeah well I feel you are wrong also..
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    Feb 22, 2014 11:11 AM GMT
    morningsmile saidWatch this video


    I think internalizing the sense of inferiority in minority kids from a very young age is the cruelest faces of racism.
    Fight against racism has to start from there.

    It is not totally unrelated to a lot of discussions in this forum. Except that usually people don't think about why they feel the way that they do about different races.

    And vice versa, the sense of superiority among majority.
    Then people argue that their "preferences" are something natural. Once the damage has been done during the childhood, it's hard to repair.
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    Feb 22, 2014 4:56 PM GMT
    theantijock saidI had enough of watching that with the kid in the yellow shirt when he lied about which doll he thinks he looks like. He started to go for the dark doll but then went to the lighter and then he had trouble making up a reason for his choice, seemingly because he knew he wasn't being truthful. He looked embarrassed to be truthful about how he saw himself. Oh how sad. I didn't know it was that pronounced. What a horrible way for a kid to grow up, to not be comfortable in their own skin.

    Yet I wonder though if that's not similar to gay people thinking they'd rather be str8. The difference being, of course, that kids probably aren't committing suicide due to their skin.


    Yes, it is very similar for LGBT kids. That's why I could strongly relate to these kids.

    I think parents and everyone else, especially in the media, should think about the message that they are sending to kids by their comments and their behavior towards different races, sexual orientations, etc.
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    Feb 22, 2014 5:29 PM GMT
    Well, that was disturbing.
    I agree with aMoonHawk though. They needed to mix it up more. I would have liked to have seen how the children reacted to a blue and a yellow doll or if their opinions changed quickly if a lighter puppet hit a darker puppet.
    Also, some of the children should have been asked first, "Do you think the dolls are both just as pretty?"
    Some of the children looked like they were trying to give the answer that was expected, not necessarily what they felt themselves.
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    Feb 22, 2014 5:39 PM GMT


    http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/05/19/doll.study.reactions/
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    Feb 22, 2014 5:55 PM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidWell, that was disturbing.
    I agree with aMoonHawk though. They needed to mix it up more. I would have liked to have seen how the children reacted to a blue and a yellow doll or if their opinions changed quickly if a lighter puppet hit a darker puppet.
    Also, some of the children should have been asked first, "Do you think the dolls are both just as pretty?"
    Some of the children looked like they were trying to give the answer that was expected, not necessarily what they felt themselves.


    For the ones who like to question the methodology of the study, you can read here about the study:

    http://www.loc.gov/exhibits/brown/brown-brown.html

    Also, you can learn about the research methodologies by reading online or taking a course. For example, you don't set the question with a bias as suggested above like "Don't you think they are both pretty regardless of race?!" The goal is to study the perception of these kids of race, not to educate them. In a more recent study that CNN reported, the older kids gave the answer that most of us like to hear: "They are all equal, teachers like them equally." The older kids give the answers that they think is the right answer, but kids of 3-4 yr old simply reflect their emotional perception.

    Several studies with different questions have been performed and they all got the same results. Denying a problem doesn't solve it, looking away when you see a disturbing reality might be the easiest reaction, it definitely isn't the solution.



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    Feb 22, 2014 6:04 PM GMT
    ^Nobody has denied the problem or looked away.
    Get off your soapbox.