The shocking numbers behind corporate welfare

  • metta

    Posts: 39165

    Feb 25, 2014 7:29 PM GMT
    The shocking numbers behind corporate welfare

    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/2/corporate-welfaresubsidiesboeingalcoa.html


    I understand SOME of these subsidies are necessary in order for US companies to be able to compete with other international companies that are subsidized by other governments. But I think that the government should at least get a percentage of the profits or shares in these corporations in return for the subsidies. And then we could use that money to help reduce our government debt.
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    Feb 25, 2014 7:32 PM GMT
    metta8 saidThe shocking numbers behind corporate welfare

    http://america.aljazeera.com/opinions/2014/2/corporate-welfaresubsidiesboeingalcoa.html


    I understand SOME of these subsidies are necessary in order for US companies to be able to compete with other international companies that are subsidized by other governments. But I think that the government should at least get a percentage of the profits or shares in these corporations in return for the subsidies. And then we could use that money to help reduce our government debt.


    It's interesting they don't talk about GE or firms like Solyndra in this article. It's ridiculous subsidies are provided in the first place when they just make these companies less competitive not more. That said, the "analysis" here is more than a little disingenuous as well since it doesn't really show how or why these funds were provided to these companies in the first place.

    It'd be one thing to have the governments take a piece of of profits afterwards in return for money upfront - but that's not what you are suggesting. You believe that that governments should take profits after the fact even though these firms fulfilled their end of the bargain - be it hiring people, training people and the taxes they pay afterwards.

    Subsidies go generally to firms that pay the most to lobbyists - and there's no one who does better than those companies listed in addition to companies like GE for things like "green energy" etc. No, these subsidies are not necessary.
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    Feb 25, 2014 7:50 PM GMT
    OMG, yes, it is shocking, I am sure the release of this report has corporate America on public notice, I had no idea they were getting this much welfare (um, government assistance) icon_eek.gif

    Hollywood, "the biz" has been getting tax breaks for a long time now, moving work out of CA icon_evil.gif


    Subsidy Tracker Top 100 Parent Companies
    http://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/top-100-parents

    Discover Where Corporations are Getting Taxpayer Assistance Across the United States
    http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/subsidy-tracker

    Subsidizing the Corporate One Percent
    http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/sites/default/files/docs/pdf/subsidizingthecorporateonepercent.pdf
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    Feb 25, 2014 7:51 PM GMT
    scruffLA said
    OMG, yes, it is shocking, I am sure the release of this report has corporate America on public notice, I had no idea they were getting this much welfare (um, government assistance) icon_eek.gif

    Hollywood, "the biz" has been getting tax breaks for a long time now, moving work out of CA icon_evil.gif


    Subsidy Tracker Top 100 Parent Companies
    http://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/top-100-parents

    Discover Where Corporations are Getting Taxpayer Assistance Across the United States
    http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/subsidy-tracker


    Hollywood has been getting a whack ton of subsidies in California:
    http://pando.com/2014/02/20/hollywood-handouts-how-subsidies-to-the-entertainment-industry-are-fleecing-taxpayers/
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    Feb 25, 2014 8:03 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    scruffLA said
    OMG, yes, it is shocking, I am sure the release of this report has corporate America on public notice, I had no idea they were getting this much welfare (um, government assistance) icon_eek.gif

    Hollywood, "the biz" has been getting tax breaks for a long time now, moving work out of CA icon_evil.gif


    Subsidy Tracker Top 100 Parent Companies
    http://subsidytracker.goodjobsfirst.org/top-100-parents

    Discover Where Corporations are Getting Taxpayer Assistance Across the United States
    http://www.goodjobsfirst.org/subsidy-tracker


    Hollywood has been getting a whack ton of subsidies in California:
    http://pando.com/2014/02/20/hollywood-handouts-how-subsidies-to-the-entertainment-industry-are-fleecing-taxpayers/



    I do know Michigan promised 42%, but they had to rescind that offer when they really couldn't afford it

    States give Hollywood a fortune in tax breaks
    http://www.ocpp.org/2009/20090602StatesGiveHollywood.pdf


    Why do film companies need to be tempted into the state to begin with?
    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/economic-intelligence/2013/04/16/film-tax-credits-dont-give-states-an-economic-boost
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    Feb 25, 2014 8:04 PM GMT
    More here on those subsidies to Hollywood and what a failure they've been:
    http://www.techdirt.com/articles/20121205/09153021240/state-subsidies-to-hollywood-almost-every-program-has-been-dismal-failure-costing-taxpayers.shtml

    There's a really strong case for either the removal of the all subsidies or a windfall tax for successful actors. At least in the oil/energy industry, the government actually ends up making far more in the gas taxes on the back end in addition to royalties up front.
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    Feb 25, 2014 8:57 PM GMT
    This is no doubt how the south became the new business haven for cheap ass employers icon_mad.gif
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    Feb 25, 2014 9:21 PM GMT
    scruffLA saidThis is no doubt how the south became the new business haven for cheap ass employers icon_mad.gif


    Lower taxes and lower regulation (and we're not talking anything related to safety) is what is driving business out of California into Texas.
  • metta

    Posts: 39165

    Feb 25, 2014 9:26 PM GMT
    ^
    We, in California, have more businesses coming in, especially in the high paying tech industry, than leaving. And the ones that left are mostly small, weaker companies. And the people that left are primarily less educated workers. Low wage jobs moving out. Higher paying jobs moving in, even with our regulations, which most Californians support. icon_smile.gif
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    Feb 25, 2014 9:30 PM GMT
    metta8 said^
    We, in California, have more businesses coming in, especially in the high paying tech industry, than leaving. And the ones that left are mostly small, weaker companies. And the people that left are primarily less educated workers. Low wage jobs moving out. Higher paying jobs moving in. icon_smile.gif


    That sounds like wishful thinking...
    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-03/why-are-californias-businesses-disappearing

    And there's this:
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/13723-latest-u-haul-index-shows-californians-leaving-for-texas

    In their study “The Great California Exodus,” Manhattan Institute’s authors Tom Gray and Robert Scardamalia looked not only at how many are leaving, but where they’re going and why. Since 1990 California has lost nearly 3½ million residents, most of them moving to southwestern states such as Texas, Nevada, and Arizona.


    California has been riding on its past success when taxes were far lower and regulations similarly so - and is a good example of the impacts of clustering. Their mismanagement however may show in coming years what an advantage they've squandered as clusters have developed elsewhere especially in tech.
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    Feb 26, 2014 2:18 AM GMT
    riddler78 said
    metta8 said^
    We, in California, have more businesses coming in, especially in the high paying tech industry, than leaving. And the ones that left are mostly small, weaker companies. And the people that left are primarily less educated workers. Low wage jobs moving out. Higher paying jobs moving in. icon_smile.gif


    That sounds like wishful thinking...
    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-03/why-are-californias-businesses-disappearing

    And there's this:
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/13723-latest-u-haul-index-shows-californians-leaving-for-texas

    In their study “The Great California Exodus,” Manhattan Institute’s authors Tom Gray and Robert Scardamalia looked not only at how many are leaving, but where they’re going and why. Since 1990 California has lost nearly 3½ million residents, most of them moving to southwestern states such as Texas, Nevada, and Arizona.


    California has been riding on its past success when taxes were far lower and regulations similarly so - and is a good example of the impacts of clustering. Their mismanagement however may show in coming years what an advantage they've squandered as clusters have developed elsewhere especially in tech.



    Population growth expected to climb from 38 million now to 40 million by 2020, the only "exodus" is someone's wishful thinking, as more people arrive, than are leaving, the business communities must take note, they must create jobs, as it is they who wish to split CA into several "states" I assume to divide control, much like TX who want to secede from the union

    California Population 2013
    http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/california-population-2013/



    20131223_062330_ssjm1224draper90-01_400.
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    Feb 26, 2014 2:15 PM GMT
    scruffLA said
    riddler78 said
    metta8 said^
    We, in California, have more businesses coming in, especially in the high paying tech industry, than leaving. And the ones that left are mostly small, weaker companies. And the people that left are primarily less educated workers. Low wage jobs moving out. Higher paying jobs moving in. icon_smile.gif


    That sounds like wishful thinking...
    http://www.businessweek.com/articles/2013-07-03/why-are-californias-businesses-disappearing

    And there's this:
    http://www.thenewamerican.com/economy/economics/item/13723-latest-u-haul-index-shows-californians-leaving-for-texas

    In their study “The Great California Exodus,” Manhattan Institute’s authors Tom Gray and Robert Scardamalia looked not only at how many are leaving, but where they’re going and why. Since 1990 California has lost nearly 3½ million residents, most of them moving to southwestern states such as Texas, Nevada, and Arizona.


    California has been riding on its past success when taxes were far lower and regulations similarly so - and is a good example of the impacts of clustering. Their mismanagement however may show in coming years what an advantage they've squandered as clusters have developed elsewhere especially in tech.



    Population growth expected to climb from 38 million now to 40 million by 2020, the only "exodus" is someone's wishful thinking, as more people arrive, than are leaving, the business communities must take note, they must create jobs, as it is they who wish to split CA into several "states" I assume to divide control, much like TX who want to secede from the union

    California Population 2013
    http://www.worldpopulationstatistics.com/california-population-2013/



    20131223_062330_ssjm1224draper90-01_400.


    Wishful thinking backed up by census figures unfortunately. What makes it even more remarkable is that given the choice... objectively living in California or Texas there's absolutely no contest - and yet people are choosing to live in Texas.
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    Feb 26, 2014 2:43 PM GMT
    You know someone is full of shit when they say "Solyndra!". It's another version of "Benghazi!"
    Like you needed any further proof that Riddler is full of shit anyway, But this is more.
  • Kazachok

    Posts: 415

    Feb 26, 2014 2:43 PM GMT
    I also never understood quantitative easing. Also seems like corporate welfare. If they really wanted to help America, he Federal Reserve shouldn't have bailed out the banks.
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    Feb 26, 2014 2:49 PM GMT
    Sharka_Khan saidYou know someone is full of shit when they say "Solyndra!". It's another version of "Benghazi!"
    Like you needed any further proof that Riddler is full of shit anyway, But this is more.


    Oh ok, so Solyndra was supposed to be a not for profit from the beginning and not another form of corporate welfare?

    You beclown yourself so openly and proudly desperately trying to discredit me of all people - it's fun to watch icon_wink.gif
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    Feb 26, 2014 2:51 PM GMT
    Despite the title - this was a bipartisan effort at corporate welfare -

    ----------

    Obama appointee subsidizes electric bus company, then goes to work for it
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/obama-appointee-subsidizes-electric-bus-company-then-goes-to-work-for-them/article/2544638

    Washington's green revolving door keeps on spinning.

    President Obama’s Secretary of Transportation Ray LaHood has left the administration and joined an electric bus company he subsidized and praised while in office.

    Proterra Inc. makes buses that require no gasoline or diesel – they run on electricity and fuel cells.

    You can see why electric buses would appeal to cities that want to clean the air and reduce fuel usage: City buses run a predictable number of miles a day, averting worries about dead batteries. Also, a fleet of buses creates economies of scale that can make recharging infrastructure economical.

    Proterra is the leading U.S.-based manufacturer of electric buses. Like most green-technology companies, it receives taxpayer subsidies from many federal, state and local programs.

    Under the Bush administration, the Federal Transit Administration - a unit of the U.S. Department of Transportation - gave $49 million in grants to a program aimed at developing fuel-cell powered buses. Proterra was the leading manufacturer in the program.
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    Feb 26, 2014 3:06 PM GMT
    Repeal the Hollywood tax cuts:
    http://washingtonexaminer.com/sunday-reflection-repeal-the-hollywood-tax-cuts/article/2503964

    In lobbying for the tax cuts, this was prepared:
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    Feb 26, 2014 7:17 PM GMT
    It would seem our government should have an official mechanism for tracking these subsidies and provide information on the ROI.

    We have no idea whether the money spent has provided returns that show a wise investment.
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    Feb 26, 2014 7:29 PM GMT
    Kazachok saidI also never understood quantitative easing. Also seems like corporate welfare. If they really wanted to help America, he Federal Reserve shouldn't have bailed out the banks.


    the Federal Reserve IS the banks duh
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    Feb 26, 2014 7:39 PM GMT
    There is a difference between choosing to live in Texas and being forced to live in Texas (like when your long term, government subsidized, cheap ass employer moves the jobs there) icon_mad.gif
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    Feb 26, 2014 7:47 PM GMT
    scruffLA saidThere is a difference between choosing to live in Texas and being forced to live in Texas (like when your long term, government subsidized, cheap ass employer moves the jobs there) icon_mad.gif


    nah - quite the opposite - it's in California where they've played favorites. In Texas there are some subsidies but the real growth has come from reducing them and reducing taxes for all not just a few favorites
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    Feb 26, 2014 9:57 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    Sharka_Khan saidYou know someone is full of shit when they say "Solyndra!". It's another version of "Benghazi!"
    Like you needed any further proof that Riddler is full of shit anyway, But this is more.


    Oh ok, so Solyndra was supposed to be a not for profit from the beginning and not another form of corporate welfare?

    You beclown yourself so openly and proudly desperately trying to discredit me of all people - it's fun to watch icon_wink.gif

    I don't need to discredit you. You're a laughingstock around here without my help.
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    Feb 26, 2014 10:34 PM GMT
    Sharka_Khan said
    riddler78 said
    Sharka_Khan saidYou know someone is full of shit when they say "Solyndra!". It's another version of "Benghazi!"
    Like you needed any further proof that Riddler is full of shit anyway, But this is more.


    Oh ok, so Solyndra was supposed to be a not for profit from the beginning and not another form of corporate welfare?

    You beclown yourself so openly and proudly desperately trying to discredit me of all people - it's fun to watch icon_wink.gif

    I don't need to discredit you. You're a laughingstock around here without my help.


    icon_lol.gif oh the irony and your lack of self awareness.
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    Feb 26, 2014 11:07 PM GMT
    YourName2000 said
    riddler78 said
    Sharka_Khan saidI don't need to discredit you. You're a laughingstock around here without my help.


    icon_lol.gif oh the irony and your lack of self awareness.

    Hey Sparkles: when everyone is saying it, good chance there's some truth to it. icon_wink.gif Again, no one did this to you, you made yourself a laughingstock all by yourself...and continue to do so daily.

    Bravo to your commitment to comedy. icon_biggrin.gif


    Lol only if "everyone" comprises of you and a few other bitter liberals on this site then I might agree with you. Meanwhile as I believe I have mentioned repeatedly, I think you and Aristoshark would make a lovely coupling. icon_lol.gif