Membrane that can keep your heart pumping forever and possibly prevent heart attacks

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    Mar 04, 2014 9:58 PM GMT
    Exciting development
    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2571917/Membrane-heart-pumping-forever-possibly-prevent-heart-attacks.html

    Scientists have created an external membrane using a 3-D printer than can keep a heart beating virtually forever.
    The thin membrane is elastic, designed to stretch over a heart like a glove, and is outfitted with tiny electrodes that monitor cardiac function – it was first demonstrated as a proof of concept on a rabbit heart.

    Researchers at both the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign and Washington University published the astonishing breakthrough in Nature, and hope it will someday help prevent heart attacks in humans.

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    Mar 04, 2014 10:41 PM GMT
    paz_the_gnome saidif there was such a thing, i wouldn't want it. i look forward to the day where i go to sleep and never wake up. hopefully, that time is soon.


    I am pretty sure the other parts of you wouldn't last so long.
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    Mar 05, 2014 1:00 AM GMT
    paz_the_gnome said
    riddler78 said
    paz_the_gnome saidif there was such a thing, i wouldn't want it. i look forward to the day where i go to sleep and never wake up. hopefully, that time is soon.


    I am pretty sure the other parts of you wouldn't last so long.


    well, chances are if they have one for the heart. they aren't so far behind with other body parts as well. anything to prolong my life, i wouldn't want. i'm exhausted.
    It's making the heart work by electricity and pumping....No other organ works like the heart....They would all eventually die.
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    Mar 05, 2014 1:26 AM GMT
    paz_the_gnome saidif there was such a thing, i wouldn't want it. give it to someone who needs it or wants to live forever. i don't want to live forever. i look forward to the day when i go to sleep and never wake up. hopefully, that happens soon.


    Man is quickly approaching immortality, which, for some, calls into question their false belief systems, as advances in science, fact, and knowledge, always do. Faith used to say that the sun revolved around The Earth. But, as we become less ignorant as a species we learn that false belief systems are just that: false.

    In less than 100 years, we'll likely approach states of DNA engineering, bio medical engineering, genetic engerinng, and cybernetics, that allow life to be extended very much what it was before. We'll just grow us a new part with the gene we need, or print it out, etc. That science is with us here..NOW..with cures for malaria and melanoma ALREADY in place.

    This is NOT unusual. Just a few years ago, HIV (before the age of anti-virals) / AIDS was a quick death sentence. Prior to antibiotics, folks were often lucky to live beyond 40.

    Immortality is knocking on our door. False belief systems will continue to tumble, and..that's as it should be.
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    Mar 05, 2014 2:43 AM GMT
    If we live much longer in future than we do now, does that mean we have to work longer, or run out of money in retirement?
  • waccamatt

    Posts: 1918

    Mar 05, 2014 3:46 AM GMT
    paz_the_gnome saidif there was such a thing, i wouldn't want it. give it to someone who needs it or wants to live forever. i don't want to live forever. i look forward to the day when i go to sleep and never wake up. hopefully, that happens soon.


    You're 27 and have such a defeatist attitude? All problems are temporary. Pick yourself up and have some fun.
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    Mar 05, 2014 7:35 AM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle said
    chuckystud said
    paz_the_gnome saidif there was such a thing, i wouldn't want it. give it to someone who needs it or wants to live forever. i don't want to live forever. i look forward to the day when i go to sleep and never wake up. hopefully, that happens soon.


    Man is quickly approaching immortality, which, for some, calls into question their false belief systems, as advances in science, fact, and knowledge, always do. Faith used to say that the sun revolved around The Earth. But, as we become less ignorant as a species we learn that false belief systems are just that: false.

    In less than 100 years, we'll likely approach states of DNA engineering, bio medical engineering, genetic engerinng, and cybernetics, that allow life to be extended very much what it was before. We'll just grow us a new part with the gene we need, or print it out, etc. That science is with us here..NOW..with cures for malaria and melanoma ALREADY in place.

    This is NOT unusual. Just a few years ago, HIV (before the age of anti-virals) / AIDS was a quick death sentence. Prior to antibiotics, folks were often lucky to live beyond 40.

    Immortality is knocking on our door. False belief systems will continue to tumble, and..that's as it should be.


    It's not a false belief system to live a natural life that has a beginning and an end. Living forever is ridiculous. Yes, we are living longer than we did before the discovery of antibiotics or the myriad of treatments for all sorts of diseases and health conditions. But on a global level people are fatter and lazier than ever. You think obesity will just fade away? People aren't even willing to invest ten minutes a day to learn about nutrition (and apply that information) in order to maintain good health. Keeping most people alive well beyond a natural lifespan will be an utter nightmare.

    You think our lives are better now than they were 200 years ago? Go to a hospital and visit people fighting for their lives in the cancer wards, the infectious disease wards, or volunteer at the maternity ward where crack babies need human touch (you basically sit and hold them) because their mothers died at childbirth or are too ill to hold their own baby.

    People may be living longer but the quality of life for many is subpar at best. Also, death rates should reflect a healthy balance in comparison to birth rates. It is not environmentally sustainable for people to live 100 years or "forever."


    You are alive today not because of faith / false belief systems, but, modern anti virals.

    As we learn more about The World around us / become less ignorant, and understand the very framework upon which we are built, we are, can, do, and will continue to, manipulate that framework, via drugs, mechanics, DNA engineering, etc.

    As we continue to figure out what each gene in the roughly 6GB data stream that makes up our genetic code, we will continue to learn how to manipulate it. It's simply a matter of time.

    Immortality is not that many generations away.

    It is unnatural? That's an ethics question. Should we have let you die from your HIV (natural selection at work), or should we have let science do its magic? I would submit you are glad for the latter, natural, or not.

    It is not "natural" for you to be alive, but, you are.

    For you, and me, both benefactors of modern science (not divine intervention), I would submit that our quality of life is much better. I certainly have much enhanced athletic performance, and... YOU'RE ALIVE. Clearly, that's a much better existence than death (no existence at all).

    I am not fatter, nor lazier. Baylor calls me one of their most successful patients...ever. That's a cultural / personal thing. Did and does rehab hurt? Very much so, but, for me, I made a choice for early intervention (I chose not to ignore heart disease, and have a heart attack. I chose to aggressively treat it, and surrounded myself with the best folks in the business and the best technology of the day.), and, to rehab on the fast track. I was doing stairs just 2 days after being sawed in half and with drains in my chest.

    You're wrong about some folks. Some folks step up to the challenge. My name is Chuck Gudgel. It's in my profile.

    We have the ability to grow food for many more folks than we used to, but, man has lots of evolution to do with regard to culture catching up to science.

    That is, as long as we have folks with false belief systems, we'll never be all that we can be. Hopefully, as we evolve, we'll come to realize that The Global Village really is.
  • frogman89

    Posts: 418

    Mar 05, 2014 11:42 AM GMT
    Immortality is a dream that will never come true. Maybe it will be possible to live 200, 300 years in the future, but what is the prize?
    1) Many people in their 80's and 90's are suffering from either depressions or another psychiatric disorder. And most of these can't be helped anymore since they refuse any treatment or can't do it. And here's the news: Psychiatric disorders are fatal diseases.
    2) People WANT to die. I have never met an 80- or 90-year-old telling me, he/she would want to live another 100 years. They are all ready to die, sometimes waiting for it and sometimes wanting it. They lived a life full of adventures and crises and highs and lows and they feel that this is what their life was meant to be. And that it's meant to end.
    The wish to live forever is not natural (I'm not saying living forever is unnatural (it is), but the WISH). It's called narcissism.
    3) Everything that MuchMoreThanMuscle said.

    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidWell, Chuck Gudgel, that post was all over the place. You haven't really made a valid point. You want to use the process of natural selection as a possible debate when it comes to my Iife and my chronic medical condition but I do not find that to be a valid argument. Nor do I appreciate you using my medical information in this thread. But since you have made this personal, let's run with it. I simply want a chance at an average lifespan. So when reflecting on my family history males tend to live until their late 70's and females until their mid 80's. And not one of these relatives focused on their health by either/or eating well and exercising as I do. This is a far cry from me wanting to live forever.

    And I'm not sure what you are referring to about stepping up to "the challenge." I can't remember the heart procedure you had. But you claim it's genetic, if I'm not mistaken. If you have sibbling or a family history of this condition and they don't have similar problems I'm wondering if heavy steroid use accelerated your genetic predisposition for heart disease. Recent studies from prestigious medical establishments are asserting there may be a link between long term moderate/heavy steroid use and heart damage. Since you're in your mid fifties, my guess is you have been using steroids for at least a decade. But by all means, clue us in. The studies I am referring to involved participants who used steroids for nine years.

    You have a tendency to over-personalize on any given topic when contributing to the threads. We really don't need your full name or a detailed history of your rehab which seems to find its way in almost all of your recent contributions to the threads. I believe a more effective stance on this topic would be to discuss the ramifications of billions of people living for one, two or three hundred years and how this impacts the environment. Other than quelling our fear of death it really serves no benefit. Even today, people living in their 90's are hardly productive people. Imagine if a third of the billions of people on the planet today were ninety years old or older. It's not financially feasible unless we raised the retirement age to eighty-five or higher. And there is only so much a person in his nineties can do physically.


    I love you.




    The purpose of all this research for a supposedly "immortal" life is not immortality in itself, but a HEALTHY life. I don't want to suffer from severe heart conditions and dementia or immobility for the last 20 years of my life. I want to be fit and healthy and sane until I die in my sleep.
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    Mar 05, 2014 3:44 PM GMT
    MuchMoreThanMuscle saidWell, Chuck Gudgel, that post was all over the place. You haven't really made a valid point. You want to use the process of natural selection as a possible debate when it comes to my Iife and my chronic medical condition but I do not find that to be a valid argument. Nor do I appreciate you using my medical information in this thread. But since you have made this personal, let's run with it. I simply want a chance at an average lifespan. So when reflecting on my family history males tend to live until their late 70's and females until their mid 80's. And not one of these relatives focused on their health by either/or eating well and exercising as I do. This is a far cry from me wanting to live forever.

    And I'm not sure what you are referring to about stepping up to "the challenge." I can't remember the heart procedure you had. But you claim it's genetic, if I'm not mistaken. If you have sibbling or a family history of this condition and they don't have similar problems I'm wondering if heavy steroid use accelerated your genetic predisposition for heart disease. Recent studies from prestigious medical establishments are asserting there may be a link between long term moderate/heavy steroid use and heart damage. Since you're in your mid fifties, my guess is you have been using steroids for at least a decade. But by all means, clue us in. The studies I am referring to involved participants who used steroids for nine years.

    You have a tendency to over-personalize on any given topic when contributing to the threads. We really don't need your full name or a detailed history of your rehab which seems to find its way in almost all of your recent contributions to the threads. I believe a more effective stance on this topic would be to discuss the ramifications of billions of people living for one, two or three hundred years and how this impacts the environment. Other than quelling our fear of death it really serves no benefit. Even today, people living in their 90's are hardly productive people. Imagine if a third of the billions of people on the planet today were ninety years old or older. It's not financially feasible unless we raised the retirement age to eighty-five or higher. And there is only so much a person in his nineties can do physically.



    Immortality will soon be a reality. Period.

    Sorry you had trouble following the point that if it were left to natural selection you would be a dead man.

    Heart disease, in my case, was certainly not due to my lipid profile, and I've talked with some the best in the business about it. (It's 100/38 by the way.) When I asked one of the cardiologists the very question that you speculate on, he said "No way." He said, "I see exactly your condition in female runners." Oops, another butthead blowing smoke out his ass. Bringing up my fats (polys, and monos) has improved that lipid panel. My damage was likely done when I was very young, and, I have the marker for the sort of heart disease I have (not hard deposits but soft goo). We know sudden death syndrome is highest in distance runners who are thin. Fact. Going further, in your unqualified speculation, let me add this: My heart surgeon, my GP, my PT, my cardiologist, and my PA, have ALL recommended that I compete again this fall...in bodybuilding....for whatever their qualified advice is worth.

    I remember, as a young man, being forced to watch the movie "Reefer Madness". It, of course, has no basis in truth. Science evolves, too. E.g., prostate cancer specialists now say a PSA test is worthless. And..prostate cancer is not the result of testosterone, but, rather the ratio of E2 to free T being too high.

    We also know that statins wreck muscle. I'm not on statins because my CK goes too high when I do, and it kills my ability to train and recover. More harmful than good.

    My point being this: modern science, whether via electricity, communications, biology, DNA, manufacturing process, etc., allows us to defeat "nature", and, that's as it should be.

    In the next few years, we'll be able to genetically engineer disease out of the population, with all its side effects, both good and bad.

    Technology is neither good nor bad, but, how it's applied, and the cost versus benefits. E.g., for an inactive person, statins may allow them to exist without any real lifestyle changes, but, for a healthy, active, patient, they're wrong.

    Like it, or not, as a species, we have not just the ability to become immortal, but, to reinvent ourselves. A classic example is the mule (a cross between a horse, and a donkey)

    With genetic engineering, we'll be able to genetically modify people to become radiation resistant to traverse the vast distances of space.

    You claim you want "normal." But, if you think clearly, you soon realize "normal" is a ever moving standard. Normal a thousand years ago may have been 38. Normal today may be 73. That "normal" changes.

    Just as in your own case, without science, you would have been a dead man years ago, such is the case with diseases like type 1 diabetes (we'll soon be able to fix that, too, via 3D printing, DNA manipulation, and stem cell guided growth). Like it, or not, immortality is coming.

    Natural selection is playing a smaller and smaller part of our evolution, for better, or for worse.

    Now, we have bionics...today..that connect directly to the brain. Man will not just become immortal, but, merge with machines.

    The fact that you are alive is a testimonial to modern science, and our understanding of how viruses work. It's also the fact that makes it possible for me to enjoy the lifestyle that I do (along with the way I eat, exercise, and so on).

    My points were, and remain valid:
    1. Immortality is on the way. It can't and won't be stopped.
    2. "Normal" is an ever moving target.
    3. Your life was saved by science. Your life was not saved by divine intervention. Period.
    4. We have the ability to reinvent ourselves / engineer ourselves as a species; a completely new species if we wish.
    5. Science, based upon fact, and observation, always has, and always will, displace false belief systems / religions / cults. (Folks used to say The World was flat and that The Sun revolved around The Earth. We know, of course, that was just religious malarkey, as that's what false belief systems are.)
    6. If we end up with more folks living longer, science comes ups with answers for all that, too, whether it's energy, water, food, etc. It always has. E.g. 30 bushels of corn per acre might have been the max 100 years ago. Nowadays, it could be approaching 200 bushels per acre. Our ability to grow food has exploded, as has other parts of technology. (Computing: Moore's law still holds.) That ability to grow that corn has increased by nearly 800%. The electrification of America increased our productivity by 1400% in just a SINGLE DECADE.

    Knowledge, and our merging with machines is part of our evolution. We're hard wired to do it, and, we will, and are. It's not if...it's when.
  • frogman89

    Posts: 418

    Mar 05, 2014 5:31 PM GMT
    chuckystud saidImmortality will soon be a reality. Period.

    Sorry you had trouble following the point that if it were left to natural selection you would be a dead man.

    Heart disease, in my case, was certainly not due to my lipid profile, and I've talked with some the best in the business about it. (It's 100/38 by the way.) When I asked one of the cardiologists the very question that you speculate on, he said "No way." He said, "I see exactly your condition in female runners." Oops, another butthead blowing smoke out his ass. Bringing up my fats (polys, and monos) has improved that lipid panel. My damage was likely done when I was very young, and, I have the marker for the sort of heart disease I have (not hard deposits but soft goo). We know sudden death syndrome is highest in distance runners who are thin. Fact. Going further, in your unqualified speculation, let me add this: My heart surgeon, my GP, my PT, my cardiologist, and my PA, have ALL recommended that I compete again this fall...in bodybuilding....for whatever their qualified advice is worth.

    I remember, as a young man, being forced to watch the movie "Reefer Madness". It, of course, has no basis in truth. Science evolves, too. E.g., prostate cancer specialists now say a PSA test is worthless. And..prostate cancer is not the result of testosterone, but, rather the ratio of E2 to free T being too high.

    We also know that statins wreck muscle. I'm not on statins because my CK goes too high when I do, and it kills my ability to train and recover. More harmful than good.

    My point being this: modern science, whether via electricity, communications, biology, DNA, manufacturing process, etc., allows us to defeat "nature", and, that's as it should be.

    In the next few years, we'll be able to genetically engineer disease out of the population, with all its side effects, both good and bad.

    Technology is neither good nor bad, but, how it's applied, and the cost versus benefits. E.g., for an inactive person, statins may allow them to exist without any real lifestyle changes, but, for a healthy, active, patient, they're wrong.

    Like it, or not, as a species, we have not just the ability to become immortal, but, to reinvent ourselves. A classic example is the mule (a cross between a horse, and a donkey)

    With genetic engineering, we'll be able to genetically modify people to become radiation resistant to traverse the vast distances of space.

    You claim you want "normal." But, if you think clearly, you soon realize "normal" is a ever moving standard. Normal a thousand years ago may have been 38. Normal today may be 73. That "normal" changes.

    Just as in your own case, without science, you would have been a dead man years ago, such is the case with diseases like type 1 diabetes (we'll soon be able to fix that, too, via 3D printing, DNA manipulation, and stem cell guided growth). Like it, or not, immortality is coming.

    Natural selection is playing a smaller and smaller part of our evolution, for better, or for worse.

    Now, we have bionics...today..that connect directly to the brain. Man will not just become immortal, but, merge with machines.

    The fact that you are alive is a testimonial to modern science, and our understanding of how viruses work. It's also the fact that makes it possible for me to enjoy the lifestyle that I do (along with the way I eat, exercise, and so on).

    My points were, and remain valid:
    1. Immortality is on the way. It can't and won't be stopped.
    2. "Normal" is an ever moving target.
    3. Your life was saved by science. Your life was not saved by divine intervention. Period.
    4. We have the ability to reinvent ourselves / engineer ourselves as a species; a completely new species if we wish.
    5. Science, based upon fact, and observation, always has, and always will, displace false belief systems / religions / cults. (Folks used to say The World was flat and that The Sun revolved around The Earth. We know, of course, that was just religious malarkey, as that's what false belief systems are.)
    6. If we end up with more folks living longer, science comes ups with answers for all that, too, whether it's energy, water, food, etc. It always has. E.g. 30 bushels of corn per acre might have been the max 100 years ago. Nowadays, it could be approaching 200 bushels per acre. Our ability to grow food has exploded, as has other parts of technology. (Computing: Moore's law still holds.) That ability to grow that corn has increased by nearly 800%. The electrification of America increased our productivity by 1400% in just a SINGLE DECADE.

    Knowledge, and our merging with machines is part of our evolution. We're hard wired to do it, and, we will, and are. It's not if...it's when.

    1. Immortality might be possible some day, but it's still ethically controverse and the majority of people don't want to live forever. They might say the want to when they are young. But the older a mind grows, the more attractive the thought of death gets.

    2. Yes, here I agree. But the point you were making has not really anything to do with the post you were referring to.

    3. MuchMoreThanMuscle did not deny that, did he?

    4. Again, that's not what people want. People like you who actually endorse it as to create "a new species" are an isolated case.
    Your way of thinking reminds me of a certain someone who propagandized the ideology of a perfect human being just about 80 years ago.

    5. Science and religions/cults don't need to displace each other if they adapt to one another.

    6. There is still a limit to it. You can expand forever. You can't have a quadrillion people who all live forever walk the earth at the same time. It is not ethical and can't be philosophically sustained. There would be wars, even more severe and cruel wars than the world has ever witnessed, and the result would eventually be: more deaths. People would lose their respect and valuation of life.



    On another regard:

    I'm intrigued to see that you slightly changed the way you express your antipathy towards statins. But again: Statins are good if applied for the right reasons and if applied without simultanous intake of fibrates. The side effect (mylosis) that you experienced is extremely rare. Please actually read what I reply to your ignorant posts.

    Nobody, really nobody gives a f*ck what your lipid panel is. If you were as well-informed as you pretend to be, you'd know that it's not about the quantity of lipoproteins in your blood, but the ratio of HDL and LDL. Nobody cares if your lipid panel is as low as young female runner's. It's respectable, but not super spectacular.

    You sell all this "my PT, my ortho, my blah blah blah" as if it was something special. But it's not. As much as you'd like to be "the one guy who overcame a disease and now competes again at a high level" - you are not a single case. There are many many many other athletes and competitors who walked the same path.
    And you always brag about having worked with "the best". Then please do enlighten us, WHO IS THE BEST? Who are those guys whose words you obviously interpret your very own way.
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    Mar 05, 2014 5:45 PM GMT
    Has anyone seen someone forced to suffer, I mean gruesome pointless suffering, because the cardiac surgeon refused to turn off the pacemaker?

    Someone I was very close to was forced to prolong her life in unspeakable agony for this reason. I think pacemakers and this new heart membrane are great ideas, but only if they can be turned off to allow for a dignified death.
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    Mar 05, 2014 6:36 PM GMT
    Nivek saidHas anyone seen someone forced to suffer, I mean gruesome pointless suffering, because the cardiac surgeon refused to turn off the pacemaker?

    Someone I was very close to was forced to prolong her life in unspeakable agony for this reason. I think pacemakers and this new heart membrane are great ideas, but only if they can be turned off to allow for a dignified death.


    Suffering is a whole different thing.

    Patients should always have an active say in their health care, and, have an obligation to maintain their health, as well as to educate themselves on various alternatives, not just in responsible effort to themselves, but, also, at large.
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    Mar 05, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    Blakes7 saidIf we live much longer in future than we do now, does that mean we have to work longer, or run out of money in retirement?


    It would appear so, (and likely only be affordable/available for the very rich).


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    Mar 05, 2014 10:40 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Blakes7 saidIf we live much longer in future than we do now, does that mean we have to work longer, or run out of money in retirement?


    It would appear so, (and likely only be affordable/available for the very rich).




    Retirement age was originally set at an age that exceeded most people's life expectancies. The idea that retirement should mean decades of leisure is a relatively new idea - the diret result of increasing life expectancy that has far outpaced any rise in age when you can collect retirement entitlements and it's an unsustainable one as most governments recognize and anyone who can do the math.