"Straight marriage" doesn't exist. Tell media "gay marriage" doesn't exit.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2014 1:57 PM GMT
    http://www.change.org/petitions/gay-marriage-doesn-t-exist
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 13, 2014 2:31 PM GMT
    BUMP

    I think this a worthy petition. It's excellent in that I think it will at the least be an exercise in awareness to the media.
    My thinking, though, is as in regards to interracial marriage. Once marriage equality was achieved, it was no longer necessary to call it that, as that group no longer had to be described (attached) in reference to the rights (marriage equality)they sought.

  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Mar 13, 2014 3:36 PM GMT
    From a legal-rights standpoint, yes, it's all just marriage. But from a social and cultural standpoint, it's hardly meaningless to talk about differences in the dynamics between straight couples, gay (male) couples and lesbian couples. Once marriage equality has been entrenched for awhile, you may see different patterns among the three types of married couples, making it meaningful to talk about straight marriage, gay marriage and lesbian marriage as different social phenomena and (gasp) NOT the #samelove across the board.
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    Mar 13, 2014 3:43 PM GMT
    hmmm...interesting points, slim, although it's been our experience up here, where marriage equality was attained several years ago, that people now simply call it marriage. icon_wink.gif

    It's a great petition, and I urge guys to get on it. Bill and I's voice (signing it) are worthless in this regard as it's for the US association of journalists.
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    Mar 13, 2014 4:05 PM GMT
    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2469212?forumpage=0

    Jun 23, 2012 10:46 AM

    theantijock said...Good observation on how things are worded. We don't have a lot of control over how someone words a thing other than rewording it when we speak. In that light, you might also want to be careful about using the term "gay marriage" which can be seen as a separate kind of marrage as opposed to saying "marriage for gay people" which might level the playing field...
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    Mar 13, 2014 6:25 PM GMT
    theantijock saidhttp://www.realjock.com/gayforums/2469212?forumpage=0

    Jun 23, 2012 10:46 AM

    theantijock said...Good observation on how things are worded. We don't have a lot of control over how someone words a thing other than rewording it when we speak. In that light, you might also want to be careful about using the term "gay marriage" which can be seen as a separate kind of marriage as opposed to saying "marriage for gay people" which might level the playing field...


    This. "marriage for gay people"

    ...which is usually how I word it.
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Mar 13, 2014 6:42 PM GMT
    meninlove said hmmm...interesting points, slim, although it's been our experience up here, where marriage equality was attained several years ago, that people now simply call it marriage. icon_wink.gif


    I'm sure they do, unless there's some reason to talk about straight marriages, gay marriages or lesbian marriages as such. Which, inevitably, there is, if you want to compare divorce rates, the relative frequency of open relationships, how often children are in the picture, etc. I don't think we need to or should predicate equal-rights arguments on notions of sameness, which is not to say there aren't lots of similarities between all three kinds of marriages.
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    Mar 13, 2014 7:15 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    This. "marriage for gay people"

    ...which is usually how I word it.


    Because that corrects the edit error. Sometimes when we shorten for efficiency, to fit a headline or for tweeting we inadvertently (well, when the editor isn't having fun being a wise ass) change the meaning of a thing such that gay marriage means a very different thing than marriage for gay people.

    Gay marriage confers a sense of privilege beyond what everyone else gets and so becomes a point of contention whereas marriage for gay people both avoids isolating gay people from society while at the same time recognizes a right which ought to be endowed thereby respecting concern of dismissing out of hand our special case, only special because we don't yet have what everyone else does.

    So while gay marriage sets us apart, marriage for gay people incorporates us into the whole of society. One way of wording is more exclusive, the other more inclusive.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 13, 2014 9:01 PM GMT
    Marriage Equality
  • DCEric

    Posts: 3713

    Mar 13, 2014 11:09 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 saidYears ago here I advocated for dropping "gay marriage" as a term, but the prevailing opinion at the time was that the label was important. I even went so far as to advocate that government shouldn't recognize any "marriage" and instead only recognize "civil unions" and leave the term "marriage" with all its religious baggage to... religion. That didn't go over too well either.


    I've always thought of matrimony as the religious term for a union, and that marriage was secular term, and civil union was the thing pawned to us as separate but equal.
  • slimnmuscly

    Posts: 541

    Mar 13, 2014 11:24 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    meninlove said

    This. "marriage for gay people"

    ...which is usually how I word it.


    Because that corrects the edit error. Sometimes when we shorten for efficiency, to fit a headline or for tweeting we inadvertently (well, when the editor isn't having fun being a wise ass) change the meaning of a thing such that gay marriage means a very different thing than marriage for gay people.

    Gay marriage confers a sense of privilege beyond what everyone else gets and so becomes a point of contention whereas marriage for gay people both avoids isolating gay people from society while at the same time recognizes a right which ought to be endowed thereby respecting concern of dismissing out of hand our special case, only special because we don't yet have what everyone else does.

    So while gay marriage sets us apart, marriage for gay people incorporates us into the whole of society. One way of wording is more exclusive, the other more inclusive.


    I think your distinction is a tad too subtle for the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" crowd.
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    Mar 13, 2014 11:34 PM GMT
    slimnmuscly saidI think your distinction is a tad too subtle for the "Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve" crowd.


    Funny but I think words have meaning and meaning is conveyed in how we string words together. Even if subtle, my point would be to not give them something to fight. Coolarmydude is right because, of course, it is about marriage equality. So we shouldn't present what could be construed as an inequality to gain equality.

    southbeach1500 saidYears ago here I advocated for dropping "gay marriage" as a term, but the prevailing opinion at the time was that the label was important. I even went so far as to advocate that government shouldn't recognize any "marriage" and instead only recognize "civil unions" and leave the term "marriage" with all its religious baggage to... religion. That didn't go over too well either.


    Were you advocating for absolute equality, or for some facsimile facility, you know, like a separate water fountain or some back of the bus seat for gay people that you thought conservatives could better deal with?
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    Mar 14, 2014 8:21 PM GMT
    meninlove said hmmm...interesting points, slim, although it's been our experience up here, where marriage equality was attained several years ago, that people now simply call it marriage. icon_wink.gif

    It's a great petition, and I urge guys to get on it. Bill and I's voice (signing it) are worthless in this regard as it's for the US association of journalists.


    One did not think Canada had marriage equality, as it does not include polygamy. Marriage equality was a term coined by activists to manipulate people apposed to what is now well known as gay marriage.

    I being one of the first here apposed to the term gay marriage and being very clear I will never have a gay wedding but a wedding, and how I was abused for it.

    Slim is spot on gay marriage, lesbian marriage, and the default straight marriage are here to stay.icon_sad.gif
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    Mar 14, 2014 8:26 PM GMT
    tru_blu_ozzie said
    meninlove said hmmm...interesting points, slim, although it's been our experience up here, where marriage equality was attained several years ago, that people now simply call it marriage. icon_wink.gif

    It's a great petition, and I urge guys to get on it. Bill and I's voice (signing it) are worthless in this regard as it's for the US association of journalists.


    One did not think Canada had marriage equality, as it does not include polygamy. Marriage equality was a term coined by activists to manipulate people apposed to what is now well known as gay marriage.

    I being one of the first here apposed to the term gay marriage and being very clear I will never have a gay wedding but a wedding, and how I was abused for it.

    Slim is spot on gay marriage, lesbian marriage, and the default straight marriage are here to stay.icon_sad.gif


    Polygamous marriages are not equal. In such marriages only the husband gets to pick more wives. The wives cannot add more husbands, and such marriages are strictly patriarchal. Explain how this would work with people of the same sex.

    As well, marriage equality is being spoken of here in terms of marriage for gays being denied.
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    Mar 14, 2014 8:40 PM GMT
    My daughter and her wife got gay-married back in August. First, though, we had gay-cocktails and gay hors d'oeuvres. Then we rode the gay-elevator up to the gay-terrace and the ceremony was held outside against a gay-sunset.
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    Mar 14, 2014 8:44 PM GMT
    Sharkadelic saidMy daughter and her wife got gay-married back in August. First, though, we had gay-cocktails and gay hors d'oeuvres. Then we rode the gay-elevator up to the gay-terrace and the ceremony was held outside against a gay-sunset.


    I thought they were married in gay-August..not to be confused with straight-August, which is entirely different. (they have their own sun, too, you know)
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    Mar 15, 2014 11:08 PM GMT
    If people want to use marriage equity instead of gay marriage or same sex marriage, it's still not marriage equality, as it excludes other groups and only includes one; gays.

    Albeit I love the term "marriage equality", but sadly it's being misrepresented by the leftist, to manipulate.
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    Mar 16, 2014 12:51 AM GMT


    How is your version of polygamy equality, Tru blu?

    We are still talking about marriage equality in reference to gay people.
    Two people of same sex = two people of opposite sex, when it comes to marriage.
    This is rather simple, and has nothing to do with either Left or Right.
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Mar 16, 2014 1:37 AM GMT
    So I am confused

    Do gays wanna be like everyone else? Or they just wanna fit in and not be called gay?

    What about bars, events, clubs, etc and all the subcultures of gay??
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Mar 16, 2014 2:12 AM GMT
    I personally think the community needs to heavily focus on education of youth in gay matters and HIV, etc

    Also educate ourselves about it and make our community better rather than fight for changing everyone else icon_rolleyes.gif

    Change ourselves and people will accept--don't have to give in or "act" just create a better representation
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    Mar 17, 2014 12:49 AM GMT
    Joeyphx444 saidSo I am confused

    Do gays wanna be like everyone else? Or they just wanna fit in and not be called gay?

    What about bars, events, clubs, etc and all the subcultures of gay??


    Here in Canada:

    'Do gays wanna be like everyone else?'
    No, just equal to everyone else. And up here we are.

    'Or they just wanna fit in and not be called gay?'

    Sure, but still called gay.

    'What about bars, events, clubs, etc and all the subcultures of gay??'

    They're still alive and well after 8 years of equality. All that's different is the us against them mentality is gone.
  • Matras

    Posts: 69

    Mar 17, 2014 12:30 PM GMT
    OMG marrige is marrige , if it's so bad go to Iran and celebrate Your sexuality.

    ps. Good bless YOU
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    Mar 17, 2014 4:38 PM GMT
    Matras saidOMG marrige is marrige , if it's so bad go to Iran and celebrate Your sexuality ...



    thanks
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    Mar 18, 2014 1:19 AM GMT
    Gay Marriage is the result of putting people in financial prisons (too much money for an undergraduate degree, can you even afford a professional degree, newly bachelor degreed YUPPIES sharing $2,500/a month apartments in Manhattan, upside down in mortgages, where does the money come for a 20% downpayment on a $200,000 home(?)--and now with Obamacare..., the list and evidence goes on).

    What happens when people are in prison, it's likely that they turn to their own sex. The powers that be made life so expensive, you have no generosity to socialize with the other, the opposite sex.

    This is probably why some people say gay marriage is a sign of a failed quality of social life.

    Imprison people, they'll go gay. Imprison them outside of brick and mortar prisons, they'll go gay marriage.

    Sure, outside of the financial prison induced male bonding, there is male bonding and same-sex couples who really enjoy each other's company for life. They care for each other 100%+. Holistically, a same sex bond is not the same as an other bond; and, when you throw in a breeded generation, they definitely are not equal.

    I prefer that breeder terminology not be used for homosexuality. Religiously, I hope churches will have ceremonies of togetherness for homosexuality, not using the breeder terminology of marriage. Civil union was a term that was fine with me. We know when civil unions began to fail: when firms like UPS New Jersey failed to recognize them and there was no enforcement. So, politically, the gay powers that be said, okay, then, we're OBLIGATED to go for the only word YOU DO UNDERSTAND: MARRIAGE. I get that.

    Now, what about bisexuals? I understand bisexuality like I understand Ancient Athens, Renaissance Italy, mother and a father, sister and a brother, aunts and uncles, cousin et cousine (male and female cousin). Not enough people come out bisexual. Only the people on the gay end of the breeder-to-homosexual scale.

    I put no spirit behind gay marriage because spiritually, I like the breeder Trinity of Father, Mother, and Child. Gay Marriage, biologically, does not give us this icon of the continuity of the human race. It's an anthropological watering down to call homosexual unions marriage. Men have no breast-feeding parent and child icon for the continuity of the human race as the Mother and Child to Pieta icons. It's NOT anthropologically EQUAL. It is only a political power play of necessity for dignity.
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    Mar 18, 2014 1:25 AM GMT
    Everyone's reason for being is not to have a life-long relationship with "the other." We know this from Astrology. We know this just by looking at life. God doesn't make every family have one brother and one sister. God/Life sometimes puts us here with no sibling (correspond to forever single adults), sometimes with a brother (sometimes a twin brother)--with whom you get along, as opposed to effed up sibling rilvary (two functional childhood brothers can correspond to forever same sex adult domestic partners for life).