Analysis needed...

  • jkyer

    Posts: 1

    Mar 16, 2014 12:20 PM GMT
    I'm in need of some third-party analysis/advice on a situation which has developed between a friend and me over the last several months.

    We met each other at the end of last summer through the Internet. We had dinner several times, and also did some one-on-one things like going to a concert (we both enjoy the same music), and while I wasn't particularly attracted to him, we shared some unique common interests, which I thought meant we could make good friends going forward, even though I did not want to date.

    I had some concern that doing "date-like" things might make him thing that I'm interested in more than just friends, but since I otherwise didn't give direct indications of romantic interest and since the activities we did were in a sense my normal, everyday interests (eating out, music, etc.) I did not let this worry me too much. Occasionally he would try playfully touching me, but I would not reciprocate. I figured that not reciprocating would eventually be enough of a hint without explicitly having to discuss a friendship vs. dating boundary.

    In December we met for dinner, after which he told me he is happy spending time with me, and told me that if I was seeing a hotter guy, it's ok and to let him know . He gave me a gift of chocolate from a recent trip, and gave me a kiss on the cheek as we were departing each other (did not reciprocate). I was pretty quiet through all of this, since being inexperienced in dating this was my first time in such a situation and didn't know what to say without making him feel bad. The next day, we texted each other and I told him explicitly that I am interested in "being friends, but not dating." (At first I said something like 'at this point,' but when he came back and said he would keep trying, I tried to leave it much less ambiguous.)

    He said he was hurt by this but happy that I told him the truth. In the following weeks, since I was on winter break and had extra time, we texted somewhat frequently, mostly him helping me plan a trip to Europe since he as a lot of travel experience. Sometimes these texts were lengthy and detailed (it's my nature...).

    Where things become more complicated is that we entered a professional relationship in which I am his flight instructor. I decided to give him a discount because he is my friend. He felt that he needed to reciprocate by giving me "dinners, concerts, and piano lessons" (we both like playing piano and he is an experienced pianist), but I pushed back on this, telling him that he does not owe me anything (I did not want him to feel like he is continually in debt to me).

    After having dinner one night, he proposed some plans for the weekend of Valentines day which involved us going to a concert after one of our flight lessons. I figured this was the reciprocation for flying lessons or just a common activity we could enjoy as friends (probably a bad assumption by me). And soon thereafter he also proposed going to dinner on Valentines day via ferry. At the time (several weeks before Valentines day) I figured, why not -- it sounds pretty date-like, but we're both single and if we have nobody to see, there's no reason not to go and have fun as friends. He even asked me to tell him if I had some "hot guy" ask me to go out, to let him know so he can cancel the plans. In the back of my mind, there was a remote possibility of wanting to go out with one guy (who I will from now on I will call Friend B) I had met several months ago, but at that point we hadn't really been seeing each other and I didn't know if he was also interested, so I didn't mention this possibility to my friend (Friend A).

    Throughout these weeks I continued the professional flying relationship with Friend A and started seeing Friend B more. Around Feb 12, Friend B asked if I would want to get together on Valentines day. There was mutual attraction between me and Friend B (both telling each other "you're cute"). I explained to him the situation with Friend A having asked me to dinner, and how I was a bit confused about his intentions given our discussion in December. I also asked Friend B what he was looking for, and I told him that I was open to hanging out either as just friends or as a date, and would respect whatever his preference would be. He felt the same way, so we decided to have dinner without any real expectations of a date but to see where things would go from there.

    At this point (about 2 days before Valentines day), I had to tell Friend A that I had some plans for Valentines day now. I didn't think this would be a big deal since I instead proposed just going to dinner before the concert he had already planned on the day after Valentines day, which he had already purchased tickets to. We had a flight lesson on Thursday and discussed this a bit afterwards, and it seemed like we were on good terms and had mutual understanding. However, on Friday night, Friend A apparently blew up, and when I was with Friend B I received an angry email filled telling me how much of an a##hole I am, telling me to use protection and lube with my date, etc...really 'mature' stuff. I replied the morning after and explained how I was confused. It seemed pretty clear to me that I did not have romantic interest in him when I explicitly told him I wanted to just be 'friends, not date,' and that if there were no romantic expectations for the evening, there should be no problem proposing getting together on Saturday instead, since we were already planning to get together then.

    When I finally got to talk to him (we took a several week break from talking with each other at this point) one of his main points was that the fact that I spent one-on-one time with him and often sent long/somewhat frequent texts in response to his, in his mind, were things which indicated interest on my part.

    He also said that it is unreasonable for gay guys to spend time together alone and not expect anything sexual to happen. This seems strange to be given that I had explicitly told him that I only wanted to be friends. But to him, this crossed the "friendship boundary."

    One other thing I found strange is that he told me about a fantasy he has about having me come over his place, and kiss me on the back of my head while I am playing his piano. He said that he will not let me come play his piano unless I am willing to receive this kiss. For him telling me his fantasy -- whatever -- it's strange but I'm fine with him being open. But for him to seriously require this for me to spend time with him as a friend, given that he knows I am not interested, seems very strange. (He thinks it's what I can give him to reciprocate for letting me do something I would enjoy.) It almost seems like he wants me to feel guilty for not being as attracted to him as I am to Friend B.

    I'm just curious to hear your thoughts on the whole situation. (There are some other things I may want to ask about too a bit later...) I think I was probably insensitive to why he wanted to get together on Valentines day (although I'm still not sure, because he told me that on the ferry ride to dinner he intended to tell me how to "distance myself" from him if I really just wanted to be friend, so it's confusing), but to me his highly emotional reaction with the e-mail seemed unreasonable given what I told him in December. And is it your experience that long texts or spending time one-on-one are usually indicative of sexual or romantic interest for most gay guys?
  • jackooh

    Posts: 109

    Mar 16, 2014 1:22 PM GMT
    yup long frequent texts and one on one time are generally what people who fancy each other do,doesnt mean friends cant do that too,

    dont be too upset by his mean email hes clearly got the hots for you and people cant think straight when thats happening, sounds like hes mad in love with you so be gentle n forgiving if he lashes out,

    its up to you how you proceed, carry on being his friend and hope that time will ware down his feelings for you or give him some space so he can get over you, maybe wait till he is interested in somebody else before you go back to being friends,

    either way! you dont sound like an asshole, just a lucky douche who has guys fallin all over him ;p

    ps: if you do continue seeing him, for the love of god dont go on about guys you are seeing, thats the emotional equivalent of stamping on his face.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 16, 2014 3:19 PM GMT
    wow jkyer here has a lot of text to read throughicon_eek.gif

    friend A
    find a good stopping point in the flying lessons if he is still talking to you (lost track in all the text). You should drop seeing him all together.

    friend B
    you acknowledged there is a small mutual attraction but you only want to be friends with this person too. Your headed down the same path as with friend A?


    your wasting your time seeing men who have a crush on you and you know your never going to reciprocate.
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    Mar 16, 2014 3:43 PM GMT
    When people write super long posts about how self absorbed they are, I generally refuse to read them and offer idiotic advice that has no bearing on the long winded post they took way too long to compose.
    That said, when I was first learning to ride a bicycle I often would ride without a helmet and one time, a young girl walked in front of my bike as I was racing on what I presumed to be a safe road. I ran right into her, even though I tried not to. She fell to the ground crying and her mother came running out of their house. I was on my side, having crashed upon hitting the young girl. The mother came running right to me and asked if I was ok, not seeming to pay any attention to her screaming mother. I asked if she had any pie, which is always nice after a painful crash. She left her screaming daughter there by the side of the road while she returned to her home and brought back a large slice of blueberry pie. After she handed me the plate she seemed to notice her crying daughter.
    The pie was excellent and I was able to ride my bike home.
  • jackooh

    Posts: 109

    Mar 16, 2014 3:46 PM GMT
    my advice would be to leave the pie and marry the daughter, this woman is clearly insane and roofied it in order to get in your badass non-helmet wearing pants, and a crier is always a keeper
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    Mar 17, 2014 7:12 PM GMT
    Wow, that was a lot to read through. Anyway...


    I think for the most part, you played it fairly fair and safe with Friend A. I think you crossed the line by making plans with him on Valentine's Day. Nein, nein, nein, nein, nein, nein!

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1MLry6Cn_D4

    Don't EVER make plans with a friend who you know has somewhat of a crush on you on Valentine's Day, then cancel them (or part of them) for someone you're really interested in. That's just begging for a foul-mouthed email (probably a lot more than just that considering how mean-spirited and jaded some men are). By doing that, you're giving him all of the hope he's ever asked for, then flushing it away right in front of him as soon as he reaches up to grab it. Not cool.

    It's understandable that you're seeing things very logical and left-brained - because your heart isn't involved. You told him that you're only interested in friendship so that should mean to him that you're only interested in friendship, right? Wrong. The problem is, love knows no logic, rules or boundaries. As long as the heart is in it, everything's fair game. You have to try to see things from his perspective in order to understand where he's coming from. Imagine the last time you had a crush on someone and what that experience was like.

    I also think that he needs to take some responsibility for his feelings and misinterpretations. This stuff about two gay men spending too much alone time together, sending too many long, in depth text messages - all bullshit.

    In order to be fair though, I say you play his game. Don't hang out with him anymore unless there is a third person involved and try sending him short, insincere text messages as opposed to long and in depth ones. At this point, you're giving him too much to handle and it's starting to become confusing for the both of you. If it were me, I'd take a step back and even things out a bit.

    Oh, and I wouldn't accept anymore piano lessons from him anymore.
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    Mar 18, 2014 2:14 AM GMT
    You didn't do anything that crossed boundaries and sadly it was his misconception of thinking that there was something more. Hopefully you can resolve the matter and if he's willing to be friends and friends only.