Ryan, Obama and 'Racism': Two men use similar language and the left calls one a bigot.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 9:53 AM GMT
    A good example of the hypocrisy, dishonesty, and moral bankruptcy of some outlets on the left.

    The attacks on Mr. Ryan are one more example of the politics of personal vilification that typifies the left these days. Its policies were supposed to reduce inequality, but instead the income gap is widening. They were supposed to lift people out of poverty, but poverty has increased.

    So the last thing they can tolerate is a conservative like Mr. Ryan who is looking for better solutions and using a moral language of opportunity and upward mobility that could appeal to Americans of all incomes and backgrounds. Liberals have to smear conservatives personally because they know they're losing on the merits.

    http://online.wsj.com/news/articles/SB10001424052702304256404579449492202497688
  • PolitiMAC

    Posts: 728

    Mar 23, 2014 11:41 AM GMT
    Same thing happens in Australia against our Prime Minister.

    Children who have tantrums when they don't like someone getting the top job.

    And some of them are middle aged and over icon_razz.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 11:46 AM GMT
    "So the last thing they can tolerate is a conservative like Mr. Ryan who is looking for better solutions and using a moral language of opportunity and upward mobility that could appeal to Americans of all incomes and backgrounds. Liberals have to smear conservatives personally because they know they're losing on the merits."

    I laugh out loud. You just crazy at this point. Seek therapy.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 12:20 PM GMT
    And look at the quoted source - an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. If ever there would be a defender of Ryan's contention that the poor have no one to blame for being poor but themselves, it would be the WSJ. Not corporate polices at all, not outsourcing and job losses, nor the Wall Street meltdown, nor political decisions by the legislators to which corporations donate, but the victims of Big Business themselves are to blame for their fate.

    Also ironic that RJ Right Wingers are quick to pounce on any hint that their political opponents are generalizing in their statements, but haven't addressed Paul Ryan at all in that regard. His address was nothing BUT generalizations about the urban poor.

    Reading Ryan one would believe they're all on welfare and none want to work. And if it's wicked welfare then naturally it must be unmerited and should be taken away from them.

    Of course by focusing on inner cities he overlooks the rural unemployed poor, heavily White and also getting subsidies, but part of the voter base for many Republican politicians. Those must be "good" poor, because they largely escape criticism or even mention.

    And that forms part of the basis for the complaint from Black leaders that Ryan's generalizations were veiled racism.
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    Mar 23, 2014 12:40 PM GMT
    ART_DECO saidAnd look at the quoted source - an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. If ever there would be a defender of Ryan's contention that the poor have no one to blame for being poor but themselves, it would be the WSJ. Not corporate polices at all, not outsourcing and job losses, nor the Wall Street meltdown, nor political decisions by the legislators to which corporations donate, but the victims of Big Business themselves are to blame for their fate.

    Also ironic that RJ Right Wingers are quick to pounce on any hint that their political opponents are generalizing in their statements, but haven't addressed Paul Ryan at all in that regard. His address was nothing BUT generalizations about the urban poor.

    Reading Ryan one would believe they're all on welfare and none want to work. And if it's wicked welfare then naturally it must be unmerited.

    Of course by focusing on inner cities he overlooks the rural unemployed poor, heavily White and also getting subsidies, but part of the voter base for many Republican politicians. Those must be "good" poor, because they largely escape criticism or even mention.

    And that forms part of the basis for the complaint from Black leaders th
    that Ryan's generalizations were veiled racism.
    Thanks for providing the backstory.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 12:40 PM GMT
    smartmoney said"So the last thing they can tolerate is a conservative like Mr. Ryan who is looking for better solutions and using a moral language of opportunity and upward mobility that could appeal to Americans of all incomes and backgrounds. Liberals have to smear conservatives personally because they know they're losing on the merits."

    I laugh out loud. You just crazy at this point. Seek therapy.


    Said another angry liberal. Unfortunately for many liberals, the policies they've advocated for the last century now have been making the poor poorer. It's useful to note that the only arguments liberals here have had have either to attack the WSJ or socalfitness for posting the article in the first place.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 12:49 PM GMT
    I'm sure there is racist or something...

    http://news.investors.com/ibd-editorials-perspective/031914-693892-judging-obamas-economy-by-his-own-promises.htm

    ISUpic_140320.png.cms
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    Mar 23, 2014 3:30 PM GMT
    riddler78 said
    smartmoney said"So the last thing they can tolerate is a conservative like Mr. Ryan who is looking for better solutions and using a moral language of opportunity and upward mobility that could appeal to Americans of all incomes and backgrounds. Liberals have to smear conservatives personally because they know they're losing on the merits."

    I laugh out loud. You just crazy at this point. Seek therapy.


    Said another angry liberal. Unfortunately for many liberals, the policies they've advocated for the last century now have been making the poor poorer. It's useful to note that the only arguments liberals here have had have either to attack the WSJ or socalfitness for posting the article in the first place.

    Precisely. Also, good graph you posted. The responses as you mentioned are very typical. They can't deal with facts so they just lash out in anger and frustration. Their posts are often full of illogical irrelevancies and untrue innuendos. I posted the article for everyone except the far left. I'm not interested in having a dialogue with people who are emotionally and/or intellectually incapable of having a reasoned discussion.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Mar 23, 2014 5:29 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    smartmoney said"So the last thing they can tolerate is a conservative like Mr. Ryan who is looking for better solutions and using a moral language of opportunity and upward mobility that could appeal to Americans of all incomes and backgrounds. Liberals have to smear conservatives personally because they know they're losing on the merits."

    I laugh out loud. You just crazy at this point. Seek therapy.


    Said another angry liberal. Unfortunately for many liberals, the policies they've advocated for the last century now have been making the poor poorer. It's useful to note that the only arguments liberals here have had have either to attack the WSJ or socalfitness for posting the article in the first place.

    Precisely. Also, good graph you posted. The responses as you mentioned are very typical. They can't deal with facts so they just lash out in anger and frustration. Their posts are often full of illogical irrelevancies and untrue innuendos. I posted the article for everyone except the far left. I'm not interested in having a dialogue with people who are emotionally and/or intellectually incapable of having a reasoned discussion.
    Well obviously all the EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS are going to scream in protest because the policies of their beloved democratic party are being put under the microscope and exposing the many disastrous failures of its left wing extremism. Pandering to corrupt organized labor, the unmotivated urban poor, and longtime monopoly control over most of the older northern cities which has led to decline and disinvestment. The EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS on here are squawking like crazy because they cannot stand the truth because after all, the truth always hurts.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Mar 23, 2014 5:38 PM GMT
    ART_DECO saidAnd look at the quoted source - an opinion piece in the Wall Street Journal. If ever there would be a defender of Ryan's contention that the poor have no one to blame for being poor but themselves, it would be the WSJ. Not corporate polices at all, not outsourcing and job losses, nor the Wall Street meltdown, nor political decisions by the legislators to which corporations donate, but the victims of Big Business themselves are to blame for their fate.

    Also ironic that RJ Right Wingers are quick to pounce on any hint that their political opponents are generalizing in their statements, but haven't addressed Paul Ryan at all in that regard. His address was nothing BUT generalizations about the urban poor.

    Reading Ryan one would believe they're all on welfare and none want to work. And if it's wicked welfare then naturally it must be unmerited and should be taken away from them.

    Of course by focusing on inner cities he overlooks the rural unemployed poor, heavily White and also getting subsidies, but part of the voter base for many Republican politicians. Those must be "good" poor, because they largely escape criticism or even mention.

    And that forms part of the basis for the complaint from Black leaders that Ryan's generalizations were veiled racism.
    The Wall Street Journal is 100% correct about the poor. Millions of dollars were spent redeveloping and revitalizing poor, inner city neighborhoods but yet poverty is still a serious problem. Obviously it is because of a total lack of moral structure in these neighborhoods where these poor folks feel they are rightfully entitled to welfare and other benefits and that any form of entry level, minimum wage employment is demeaning. Paul Ryan's criticism of the urban poor is fully justified and on target. These poor folks refuse to work and they continue to demand more from taxpayers and refusing to take full responsibility for their own actions. All they know is have kids out of wedlock and than expect the taxpayers to support their broken, fucked up family situation. I say wrong answer.icon_mad.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 5:53 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    smartmoney said"So the last thing they can tolerate is a conservative like Mr. Ryan who is looking for better solutions and using a moral language of opportunity and upward mobility that could appeal to Americans of all incomes and backgrounds. Liberals have to smear conservatives personally because they know they're losing on the merits."

    I laugh out loud. You just crazy at this point. Seek therapy.


    Said another angry liberal. Unfortunately for many liberals, the policies they've advocated for the last century now have been making the poor poorer. It's useful to note that the only arguments liberals here have had have either to attack the WSJ or socalfitness for posting the article in the first place.

    Precisely. Also, good graph you posted. The responses as you mentioned are very typical. They can't deal with facts so they just lash out in anger and frustration. Their posts are often full of illogical irrelevancies and untrue innuendos. I posted the article for everyone except the far left. I'm not interested in having a dialogue with people who are emotionally and/or intellectually incapable of having a reasoned discussion.
    Well obviously all the EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS are going to scream in protest because the policies of their beloved democratic party are being put under the microscope and exposing the many disastrous failures of its left wing extremism. Pandering to corrupt organized labor, the unmotivated urban poor, and longtime monopoly control over most of the older northern cities which has led to decline and disinvestment. The EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS on here are squawking like crazy because they cannot stand the truth because after all, the truth always hurts.

    I agree, but would like to suggest a bit of moderation when describing the urban poor. Certainly some are unmotivated. In other cases, people are trapped by a dysfunctional home life, a culture that does not encourage achievement, and entitlements supported by Democrats that throw other people's money at measures that, in fact, enslave people. So it's still low motivation, but there are external factors that lead me to have some sympathy for them.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Mar 23, 2014 6:12 PM GMT
    socalfitness said
    roadbikeRob said
    socalfitness said
    riddler78 said
    smartmoney said"So the last thing they can tolerate is a conservative like Mr. Ryan who is looking for better solutions and using a moral language of opportunity and upward mobility that could appeal to Americans of all incomes and backgrounds. Liberals have to smear conservatives personally because they know they're losing on the merits."

    I laugh out loud. You just crazy at this point. Seek therapy.


    Said another angry liberal. Unfortunately for many liberals, the policies they've advocated for the last century now have been making the poor poorer. It's useful to note that the only arguments liberals here have had have either to attack the WSJ or socalfitness for posting the article in the first place.

    Precisely. Also, good graph you posted. The responses as you mentioned are very typical. They can't deal with facts so they just lash out in anger and frustration. Their posts are often full of illogical irrelevancies and untrue innuendos. I posted the article for everyone except the far left. I'm not interested in having a dialogue with people who are emotionally and/or intellectually incapable of having a reasoned discussion.
    Well obviously all the EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS are going to scream in protest because the policies of their beloved democratic party are being put under the microscope and exposing the many disastrous failures of its left wing extremism. Pandering to corrupt organized labor, the unmotivated urban poor, and longtime monopoly control over most of the older northern cities which has led to decline and disinvestment. The EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS on here are squawking like crazy because they cannot stand the truth because after all, the truth always hurts.

    I agree, but would like to suggest a bit of moderation when describing the urban poor. Certainly some are unmotivated. In other cases, people are trapped by a dysfunctional home life, a culture that does not encourage achievement, and entitlements supported by Democrats that throw other people's money at measures that, in fact, enslave people. So it's still low motivation, but there are external factors that lead me to have some sympathy for them.
    Sorry to say but it is increasingly difficult for me to have any sympathy for most of the urban poor. Years of reinvestment into these neighborhoods and yes money thrown at social problems yet many of these people continue their self destructive path by doing more of the same and expecting taxpayers to foot the bill. Another example is housing. When the poor where living in decrepit, substandard slum housing, we had sympathy for them by tearing down those decaying slums and building modern, clean public housing units. A couple decades later these housing projects were destroyed by their poor inhabitants who just didn't appreciate the new housing. Than the propaganda started that high rise housing projects were a failure and than it was replace the high rises with low rise townhouses and now we are seeing in many cities that the low rise townhouses and duplexes are a total failure because again their poor inhabitants destroyed them thinking that the taxpayers will keep paying for repairs and replacement. The types of housing built had nothing to do with the failures of public housing it was the recipients that lived in the public housing that took it for granted and didn't give a damn about their homes courtesy of the taxpayers. These folks never had to work for it so obviously they don't care about their built environment. It is just destroy and than the taxpayers will come through with more money for replacement housing. Again I say wrong answer. Make the urban poor earn their new, modern housing rather than just hand it to them on a silver platter.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 23, 2014 6:23 PM GMT
    There is a distinct difference between Paul Ryan using the word "culture" and Obama speaking about inner city minorities.

    First of all, I have heard the term "culture" used as a dog whistle, well before Paul Ryan used the term. The problem with the use of this word is that it blames the African-American community at large for the issues facing African-Americans....

    Which is where Obama talks about. He doesn't blame African-Americans. He identifies the issues they face and makes a call to action to deal with the problems, such as "be[ing] 'disconnected'—not in school, not working. We've got to reconnect them. We've got to give more of these young men access to mentors. We've got to continue to encourage responsible fatherhood. We've got to provide more pathways to apply to college or find a job. We can keep them from falling through the cracks."


    Paul Ryan paints a different picture:

    "We have got this tailspin of culture, in our inner cities in particular, of men not working and just generations of men not even thinking about working or learning the value and the culture of work, so there's a cultural problem that has to be dealt with."

    Sounds like he's assigning blame and doesn't offer solutions.

    Continuing:

    Appearing on Bill Bennett's radio program, Mr. Ryan observed that antipoverty assistance can often create "incentives not to work and to stay where you are, that's not what we want in society. . . . There are a lot of people slipping through the cracks in America that are not reaching their potential and we as conservatives should have something to say about that."


    Paul Ryan's failure [and the Wall Street Journal's] on this issue is that he thinks that poverty is exclusive to the inner city, caused by black men.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 6:33 PM GMT
    There's a difference between being condescending and making an observation.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 23, 2014 6:36 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    Ryan's view is that these people need to take responsibility for themselves in some very basic areas. A person doesn't need a government "program" to tell them that staying in school (and doing half-way well academically), not having kids out of wedlock and taking an entry-level job to start yourself working your way up the ladder of prosperity are the basic rules to success.


    That's an overly simplistic view of reality for inner city youth.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 23, 2014 6:39 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    Ryan's view is that these people need to take responsibility for themselves in some very basic areas. A person doesn't need a government "program" to tell them that staying in school (and doing half-way well academically), not having kids out of wedlock and taking an entry-level job to start yourself working your way up the ladder of prosperity are the basic rules to success.


    That's an overly simplistic view of reality for inner city youth.


    It's the truth.


    And it speaks to the reason why the war on poverty failed in the first place. You can't approach poverty in the US with a cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all mentality.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Mar 23, 2014 8:12 PM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    Ryan's view is that these people need to take responsibility for themselves in some very basic areas. A person doesn't need a government "program" to tell them that staying in school (and doing half-way well academically), not having kids out of wedlock and taking an entry-level job to start yourself working your way up the ladder of prosperity are the basic rules to success.


    That's an overly simplistic view of reality for inner city youth.


    It's the truth.
    Paul Ryan is 100% right about the inner city poor. All these anti poverty programs from the do-gooder democrats and liberals have created a culture of permanent dependency on free handouts from the government. This is dead wrong. There is no motivation for the poor to better themselves and they think that any entry level job is demeaning and that they are lawfully entitled to welfare benefits and that we owe them. I say bullshit. We have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on improving and reinvesting in poor inner city neighborhoods and there were numerous opportunities and programs geared to get these inner city residents out of poverty. Instead these poor people insisted on their self destructive lifestyle and refuse to accept full responsibility for their actions. It is the unmotivated urban poor along with corrupt organized labor and the democratic party grip on urban governance that has ruined most older northern cities. If these poor people would listen to what Paul Ryan is saying and follow what he says then they will escape the clutches of crushing poverty.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 8:20 PM GMT
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    Ryan's view is that these people need to take responsibility for themselves in some very basic areas. A person doesn't need a government "program" to tell them that staying in school (and doing half-way well academically), not having kids out of wedlock and taking an entry-level job to start yourself working your way up the ladder of prosperity are the basic rules to success.


    That's an overly simplistic view of reality for inner city youth.


    It's the truth.


    And it speaks to the reason why the war on poverty failed in the first place. You can't approach poverty in the US with a cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all mentality.


    Don't bother arguing with him, he's a troll. Put him on the ignore list, he's always starting hassles on the board.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 8:22 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    southbeach1500 said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    Ryan's view is that these people need to take responsibility for themselves in some very basic areas. A person doesn't need a government "program" to tell them that staying in school (and doing half-way well academically), not having kids out of wedlock and taking an entry-level job to start yourself working your way up the ladder of prosperity are the basic rules to success.


    That's an overly simplistic view of reality for inner city youth.


    It's the truth.
    Paul Ryan is 100% right about the inner city poor. All these anti poverty programs from the do-gooder democrats and liberals have created a culture of permanent dependency on free handouts from the government. This is dead wrong. There is no motivation for the poor to better themselves and they think that any entry level job is demeaning and that they are lawfully entitled to welfare benefits and that we owe them. I say bullshit. We have spent hundreds of millions of dollars on improving and reinvesting in poor inner city neighborhoods and there were numerous opportunities and programs geared to get these inner city residents out of poverty. Instead these poor people insisted on their self destructive lifestyle and refuse to accept full responsibility for their actions. It is the unmotivated urban poor along with corrupt organized labor and the democratic party grip on urban governance that has ruined most older northern cities. If these poor people would listen to what Paul Ryan is saying and follow what he says then they will escape the clutches of crushing poverty.


    And people like Ryan are the ones who complain that blacks steal jobs from whites through affirmative action. What Ryan said was not out of concern, it was the sort of talk his base wants to here, that blacks are spending white tax dollars through welfare.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14303

    Mar 23, 2014 8:39 PM GMT
    James_Thunder_Early said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    Ryan's view is that these people need to take responsibility for themselves in some very basic areas. A person doesn't need a government "program" to tell them that staying in school (and doing half-way well academically), not having kids out of wedlock and taking an entry-level job to start yourself working your way up the ladder of prosperity are the basic rules to success.


    That's an overly simplistic view of reality for inner city youth.


    It's the truth.


    And it speaks to the reason why the war on poverty failed in the first place. You can't approach poverty in the US with a cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all mentality.


    Don't bother arguing with him, he's a troll. Put him on the ignore list, he's always starting hassles on the board.
    Why put him on ignoreicon_question.gif He is not a troll, he is just stating the absolute truth. If you EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS would only get your heads out of your asses and face the harsh reality that the democrats and the liberals have failed to solve the serious problems of poverty that continue to bedevil many inner city neighborhoods with all their costly do-gooder anti-poverty programs and realize that republican Paul Ryan is 100% right. It is time for the inner city poor to start accepting full responsibility for all their actions and quit expecting the taxpayers to pay their way in life.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 23, 2014 8:44 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said get your heads out of your asses and face the harsh reality that the democrats and the liberals have failed to solve the serious problems of poverty that continue to bedevil many inner city neighborhoods with all their costly do-gooder anti-poverty programs and realize that republican Paul Ryan is 100% right. It is time for the inner city poor to start accepting full responsibility for all their actions and quit expecting the taxpayers to pay their way in life.


    And the Republican successes of inner city issues come in where?

    That's right, continue the demagoguery...
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 23, 2014 8:47 PM GMT
    To bring US poverty back into perspective, it is not an exclusively inner city issue.

    But Republicans think it is.

    What's the "culture" of rural West Virginia? Lower Alabama? Texas? All of the Southern US?

    Demagogues!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 23, 2014 8:48 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob said
    James_Thunder_Early said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    coolarmydude said
    southbeach1500 said
    Ryan's view is that these people need to take responsibility for themselves in some very basic areas. A person doesn't need a government "program" to tell them that staying in school (and doing half-way well academically), not having kids out of wedlock and taking an entry-level job to start yourself working your way up the ladder of prosperity are the basic rules to success.


    That's an overly simplistic view of reality for inner city youth.


    It's the truth.


    And it speaks to the reason why the war on poverty failed in the first place. You can't approach poverty in the US with a cookie-cutter, one-size-fits-all mentality.


    Don't bother arguing with him, he's a troll. Put him on the ignore list, he's always starting hassles on the board.
    Why put him on ignoreicon_question.gif He is not a troll, he is just stating the absolute truth. If you EXTREMIST LIBERAL HENS would only get your heads out of your asses and face the harsh reality that the democrats and the liberals have failed to solve the serious problems of poverty that continue to bedevil many inner city neighborhoods with all their costly do-gooder anti-poverty programs and realize that republican Paul Ryan is 100% right. It is time for the inner city poor to start accepting full responsibility for all their actions and quit expecting the taxpayers to pay their way in life.


    He's made multiple accounts on the board and started a lot of arguments, it's not a secret. He is a troll.

    Why isn't Ryan criticizing the meth makers in the south that take welfare dollars or the Mormons that take welfare dollars through fraud?
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 23, 2014 8:50 PM GMT
    http://breakingbrown.com/2013/09/this-one-fact-about-welfare-makes-white-people-look-lazy/
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Mar 23, 2014 8:53 PM GMT
    http://www.theroot.com/articles/politics/2012/01/whites_and_welfare_gop_and_the_food_stamp_fallacy.html

    The truth? Of the 46 million people living in poverty in America in 2010, the U.S. census revealed that 31 million were white. Ten million were black. Of the 49 million people without health insurance coverage, 37 million were white; 8 million were African American. Latinos of every race and Asian Americans represented the remaining largest ethnic groups.