I was warned not to talk about Matthew Shepard here

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    Mar 25, 2014 4:55 AM GMT
    because the Real Jock white Liberals would freak. So I won't.

    "What if nearly everything you thought you knew about Matthew Shepard’s murder was wrong? What if our most fiercely held convictions about the circumstances of that fatal night of October 6, 1998, have obscured other, more critical, aspects of the case? How do people sold on one version of history react to being told that facts are slippery — that thinking of Shepard’s murder as a hate crime does not mean it was a hate crime? And how does it color our understanding of such a crime if the perpetrator and victim not only knew each other but also had sex together, bought drugs from one another, and partied together?

    "None of this is idle speculation; it’s the fruit of years of dogged investigation by journalist Stephen Jimenez, himself gay. In the course of his reporting, Jimenez interviewed over 100 subjects, including friends of Shepard and of his convicted killers, Aaron McKinney and Russell Henderson, as well as the killers themselves (though by the book’s end you may have more questions than answers about the extent of Henderson’s complicity). In the process, he amassed enough anecdotal evidence to build a persuasive case that Shepard’s sexuality was, if not incidental, certainly less central than popular consensus has lead us to believe."
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Mar 25, 2014 4:58 AM GMT
    Sorry, Jack, but your friend jockfever beat you to it with something similar, and it didn't go over so well...

    http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3480328/
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Mar 25, 2014 5:07 AM GMT
    Did you post something like this once before, perhaps a long time ago? I know someone did.

    I've never understood why anyone with half a brain would think the best way to get a point across is to begin by insulting his audience. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Beyond that, wouldn't surprise me one bit that I didn't know the full story behind Matthew Shepherd -- or any other sensationalized reporting. Truth is often way messier than fiction. One thing I am certain of, though, you don't know the real truth any more than I do.

    ETA: Yeah, creature has it.
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    Mar 25, 2014 5:16 AM GMT
    Does it matter? Murder is murder. Next thing you know, someone will right a bombshell book about how James Byrd's death had nothing to race and he tied himself to the truck to give "white liberals" something to get upset about. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Mar 25, 2014 5:52 AM GMT
    James_Thunder_Early saidDoes it matter? Murder is murder. Next thing you know, someone will right a bombshell book about how James Byrd's death had nothing to race and he tied himself to the truck to give "white liberals" something to get upset about. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Actually, the Matthew Shepard/James Byrd Hate Crimes Act is an insult to the memory of Mr. Byrd.

    Yes, murder is murder, but when one low life takes the life of another low life, no one should cry.

    And Shepard was indeed every bit the scumbag that his killer was (yes, "killer," singular - Henderson took the fall for McKinney). He ran meth for the same drug gangs that McKinney did. He had sex (often with McKinney) for money and drugs in the back of Doc O'Connor's limo.

    One can only guess how many lives he helped ruin with his drug dealing. He was a selfish, backstabbing little urchin. His parents are dipshits who had no business procreating in the first place.

    But the myth is that he was a wonderful, near-angelic being who cared about human rights and gave to all around him. Yeah, he "gave" alright.

    If the gay angle hadn't been taken up by certain rotten, self-serving individuals, we wouldn't even know his name today. He'd be just another faceless, tragic loser among thousands who are killed over drugs and money each year.

    I shed no tears for him, just as I shed no tears for the nameless drug dealing scum who was shot last night on the streets of Obama's hometown.
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    Mar 25, 2014 6:00 AM GMT
    MikeW saidDid you post something like this once before, perhaps a long time ago? I know someone did.

    I've never understood why anyone with half a brain would think the best way to get a point across is to begin by insulting his audience. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Beyond that, wouldn't surprise me one bit that I didn't know the full story behind Matthew Shepherd -- or any other sensationalized reporting. Truth is often way messier than fiction. One thing I am certain of, though, you don't know the real truth any more than I do.

    ETA: Yeah, creature has it.


    The point has been across for some time now. You know in your heart that the myth is just that. We all know it. Maddow knows it. Ellen knows it. Dan Savage knows it.

    The myth is more emotionally satisfying for the white Liberal Left, because it springs from their deeply held conviction that America is a plain rotten country.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Mar 25, 2014 6:18 AM GMT
    And by slinging shit on the memory of Mathew Shepard, what exacactly is it you hope to accomplish? Jesus hung out with prostitutes, theives and lepars, so what's your fucking point?
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Mar 25, 2014 8:34 AM GMT
    Jack_NNJ saidYou know in your heart that the myth is just that.
    Do you know who Philip D. Zelikow is, what he did and anything about his area of academic expertise? Point: Don't lecture me on public mythology while bantering your hackneyed "right/left" bullshit. It just proves you're a drunk ignorant ass who doesn't really know what the fuck he's talking about.
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    Mar 25, 2014 12:51 PM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidAnd by slinging shit on the memory of Mathew Shepard, what exacactly is it you hope to accomplish? Jesus hung out with prostitutes, theives and lepars, so what's your fucking point?


    Hahaha, the Christ figure image again.

    Yeah Jesus sold drugs, had sex in the back of limos for money, and molested two eight-year-old boys when he was 15.
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    Mar 25, 2014 12:55 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    Jack_NNJ saidYou know in your heart that the myth is just that.
    Do you know who Philip D. Zelikow is, what he did and anything about his area of academic expertise? Point: Don't lecture me on public mythology while bantering your hackneyed "right/left" bullshit. It just proves you're a drunk ignorant ass who doesn't really know what the fuck he's talking about.


    So you do acknowledge that the Matt Shepard story as received by the public is complete bullshit. Excellent.

    BTW, Zelikow is no Sorel.
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    Mar 25, 2014 1:04 PM GMT
    Jack_NNJ said
    AMoonHawk saidAnd by slinging shit on the memory of Mathew Shepard, what exacactly is it you hope to accomplish? Jesus hung out with prostitutes, theives and lepars, so what's your fucking point?

    Hahaha, the Christ figure image again.
    Yeah Jesus sold drugs, had sex in the back of limos for money, and molested two eight-year-old boys when he was 15.

    Right. People too often bring up Jesus's "strayed" associates as if he were approving or participating in their behavior. But that's another thread... icon_wink.gif
    And, excuse me, Moonhawk, but some of my best friends are lepers.
    (kidding)
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    Mar 25, 2014 1:12 PM GMT
    MikeW saidDid you post something like this once before, perhaps a long time ago? I know someone did.

    I've never understood why anyone with half a brain would think the best way to get a point across is to begin by insulting his audience. icon_rolleyes.gif

    Beyond that, wouldn't surprise me one bit that I didn't know the full story behind Matthew Shepherd -- or any other sensationalized reporting. Truth is often way messier than fiction. One thing I am certain of, though, you don't know the real truth any more than I do.

    ETA: Yeah, creature has it.


    What's even sadder is that many OP's seem to fail to recognize that the whole purpose of these forums is to discuss your views.

    Sometimes that means disagreeing vehemently, especially when you start out with an attack.

    Oh well... guess some people live for the drama.
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    Mar 25, 2014 1:22 PM GMT
    Hmmmm......let's see now.....the OP joined two weeks ago. His "About Me" section contains no information about himself; only a diatribe about Matthew Shepard. The only person on his Buddy List is JockFever. The only person on his Hot List is JockFever. Let me guess.....another loving Christian?
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    Mar 25, 2014 1:57 PM GMT
    new members should be required to post an introduction post in the main section. In return members would make an attempt to welcome him/her.

    there should be restriction put on new members. Maybe for the first 30 posts.

    would be great to verify the new member against a list of former banned ip address and or mac#, avoid multiple accounts of existing members.
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    Mar 25, 2014 2:11 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidHmmmm......let's see now.....the OP joined two weeks ago. His "About Me" section contains no information about himself; only a diatribe about Matthew Shepard. The only person on his Buddy List is JockFever. The only person on his Hot List is JockFever. Let me guess.....another loving Christian?

    Or another JockFever? It won't be the first time a sock was created to be a supporter for the original account. Echoing his views, complimenting him, having entire 2-way conversations. Have to see how this one develops.

    His profile does claim to be a "return engagement". That judging by the virulent hatred of other RJ members expressed there makes one wonder whether his previous departure was voluntary or compelled.

    It does pose the question of why one returns to a site he says he hates so much, to be in the company of gay men he intensely despises and insults. Could he be on a personal or other crusade? I think we can do without the deliberately intentional attacks & disruptions. Thoughts?
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    Mar 25, 2014 2:18 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    Scruffypup saidHmmmm......let's see now.....the OP joined two weeks ago. His "About Me" section contains no information about himself; only a diatribe about Matthew Shepard. The only person on his Buddy List is JockFever. The only person on his Hot List is JockFever. Let me guess.....another loving Christian?

    Or another JockFever? It won't be the first time a sock was created to be a supporter for the original account. Echoing his views, complimenting him, having entire 2-way conversations. Have to see how this one develops.

    His profile does claim to be a "return engagement". That judging by the virulent hatred of other RJ members expressed there makes one wonder whether his previous departure was voluntary or compelled.

    It does pose the question of why one returns to a site he says he hates so much, to be in the company of gay men he intensely despises and insults. Could he be on a personal or other crusade? Thoughts?


    It is a "return engagement." Jack isn't new. His older username has been here for years.

    I remember his first avatar was a picture of him shirtless next to a computer. Looked like an old pic. That was for a while. Then kind of recently it was a picture of him in bed, smoking. Now it's his new username name and new set of pictures.

    Anytime you see a Jack from New Jersey complaining about white liberals, it's him.
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    Mar 25, 2014 2:19 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    Scruffypup saidHmmmm......let's see now.....the OP joined two weeks ago. His "About Me" section contains no information about himself; only a diatribe about Matthew Shepard. The only person on his Buddy List is JockFever. The only person on his Hot List is JockFever. Let me guess.....another loving Christian?

    Or another JockFever? It won't be the first time a sock was created to be a supporter for the original account. Echoing his views, complimenting him, having entire 2-way conversations. Have to see how this one develops.

    His profile does claim to be a "return engagement". That judging by the virulent hatred of other RJ members expressed there makes one wonder whether his previous departure was voluntary or compelled.

    It does pose the question of why one returns to a site he says he hates so much, to be in the company of gay men he intensely despises and insults. Could he be on a personal or other crusade? I think we can do without the deliberately intentional attacks & disruptions. Thoughts?


    And this from his profile:

    "GUYS I'M LOOKING TO MEET

    A male person is an individual that produces small, motile gametes (as spermatozoa) which fertilize the eggs of a female person. A male cannot reproduce sexually without access to at least one ovum from a female. All males share the anatomy to produce male gametes, with sophisticated organs and organ systems designed to produce, dispense, and deliver the gamete to a location suitable for ovum fertilization."


    So either he's trying to say he's looking to get fertilized or it's his underhanded way of saying homosexuality is unnatural. Either way, the creepy dude is creepy.
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    Mar 25, 2014 2:22 PM GMT
    I also find it odd that the only information he puts in his profile is how much he hates Matthew Shepard. Either the scumbag has stock in that book or he's just another self-loathing queer.
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    Mar 25, 2014 2:26 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidI also find it odd that the only information he puts in his profile is how much he hates Matthew Shepard. Either the scumbag has stock in that book or he's just another self-loathing queer.

    Just took a look. Wow. That is one bizarre profile.
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    Mar 25, 2014 2:35 PM GMT
    Scruffypup saidHmmmm......let's see now.....the OP joined two weeks ago. His "About Me" section contains no information about himself; only a diatribe about Matthew Shepard. The only person on his Buddy List is JockFever. The only person on his Hot List is JockFever. Let me guess.....another loving Christian?


    lol, It's JackNJNW, back again, for I think the third or fourth time. Same shtick about M. S. as always.

    btw Jackie old boy... (and I already know you'll refuse to see the connection here, but hey..)

    Gay Panic Defense:
    'In the 1998 murder of university student Matthew Shepard, the defendants claimed in court that the young man's homosexual proposition enraged them to the point of murder. However, Judge Barton Voigt barred this strategy, saying that it was "in effect, either a temporary insanity defense or a diminished capacity defense, such as irresistible impulse, which are not allowed in Wyoming, because they do not fit within the statutory insanity defense construct." After their conviction, Shepard's attackers recanted their story in a 20/20 interview with Elizabeth Vargas, saying that the murder was a robbery attempt gone awry under the influence of drugs. This claim was denied by the defendants' girlfriends.'

    There, I used simple wiki to politely explain none of us live in the vacuum of your topic, so we can go look elsewhere.
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    Mar 25, 2014 3:01 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Scruffypup saidHmmmm......let's see now.....the OP joined two weeks ago. His "About Me" section contains no information about himself; only a diatribe about Matthew Shepard. The only person on his Buddy List is JockFever. The only person on his Hot List is JockFever. Let me guess.....another loving Christian?


    lol, It's JackNJNW, back again, for I think the third or fourth time. Same shtick about M. S. as always.

    btw Jackie old boy... (and I already know you'll refuse to see the connection here, but hey..)

    Gay Panic Defense:
    'In the 1998 murder of university student Matthew Shepard, the defendants claimed in court that the young man's homosexual proposition enraged them to the point of murder. However, Judge Barton Voigt barred this strategy, saying that it was "in effect, either a temporary insanity defense or a diminished capacity defense, such as irresistible impulse, which are not allowed in Wyoming, because they do not fit within the statutory insanity defense construct." After their conviction, Shepard's attackers recanted their story in a 20/20 interview with Elizabeth Vargas, saying that the murder was a robbery attempt gone awry under the influence of drugs. This claim was denied by the defendants' girlfriends.'

    There, I used simple wiki to politely explain none of us live in the vacuum of your topic, so we can go look elsewhere.


    Yes, but in the end, does it really even matter? There are a couple of very basic facts that should prevent this topic from even being discussed:

    • The victim is DEAD and cannot tell his side of the story.
    • No matter if the victim was an angel or a scumbag himself, he was still murdered, for which there is no excuse.
    • Civilized people do not talk ill of the dead. This alone should be enough for those who were raised properly.

    The OP says it is the "White Liberals" that despise this topic. But in reality, it's simply those with manners and decency that this topic offends.
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    Mar 25, 2014 3:08 PM GMT
    OP, you look like a pedophile, yourself. Very creepy guy.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Mar 25, 2014 3:29 PM GMT
    Jack_NNJ saidBTW, Zelikow is no Sorel.
    Perhaps, but Zelikow was Executive Director of a Commission charged with forming the government's official account of the worst terrorist attack in history. You know, the one that occurred on a Conservative administration's watch, the one for which not one single person in a position of command or authority was held accountable, the one before which both the president and vice president refused to testify unless it was behind closed doors, unrecorded and *not* under oath?
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    Mar 25, 2014 3:45 PM GMT
    Jack_NNJ said
    James_Thunder_Early saidDoes it matter? Murder is murder. Next thing you know, someone will right a bombshell book about how James Byrd's death had nothing to race and he tied himself to the truck to give "white liberals" something to get upset about. icon_rolleyes.gif


    Actually, the Matthew Shepard/James Byrd Hate Crimes Act is an insult to the memory of Mr. Byrd.

    Yes, murder is murder, but when one low life takes the life of another low life, no one should cry.

    And Shepard was indeed every bit the scumbag that his killer was (yes, "killer," singular - Henderson took the fall for McKinney). He ran meth for the same drug gangs that McKinney did. He had sex (often with McKinney) for money and drugs in the back of Doc O'Connor's limo.

    One can only guess how many lives he helped ruin with his drug dealing. He was a selfish, backstabbing little urchin. His parents are dipshits who had no business procreating in the first place.

    But the myth is that he was a wonderful, near-angelic being who cared about human rights and gave to all around him. Yeah, he "gave" alright.

    If the gay angle hadn't been taken up by certain rotten, self-serving individuals, we wouldn't even know his name today. He'd be just another faceless, tragic loser among thousands who are killed over drugs and money each year.

    I shed no tears for him, just as I shed no tears for the nameless drug dealing scum who was shot last night on the streets of Obama's hometown.


    I have no idea why some many on the far-right don't want to believe it was a hate crime and are desperate to prove it wasn't, but whatever. The overall heinous nature of the crime suggests that it was motivated by hate.
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    Mar 25, 2014 3:47 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Scruffypup saidHmmmm......let's see now.....the OP joined two weeks ago. His "About Me" section contains no information about himself; only a diatribe about Matthew Shepard. The only person on his Buddy List is JockFever. The only person on his Hot List is JockFever. Let me guess.....another loving Christian?


    lol, It's JackNJNW, back again, for I think the third or fourth time. Same shtick about M. S. as always.

    btw Jackie old boy... (and I already know you'll refuse to see the connection here, but hey..)

    Gay Panic Defense:
    'In the 1998 murder of university student Matthew Shepard, the defendants claimed in court that the young man's homosexual proposition enraged them to the point of murder. However, Judge Barton Voigt barred this strategy, saying that it was "in effect, either a temporary insanity defense or a diminished capacity defense, such as irresistible impulse, which are not allowed in Wyoming, because they do not fit within the statutory insanity defense construct." After their conviction, Shepard's attackers recanted their story in a 20/20 interview with Elizabeth Vargas, saying that the murder was a robbery attempt gone awry under the influence of drugs. This claim was denied by the defendants' girlfriends.'

    There, I used simple wiki to politely explain none of us live in the vacuum of your topic, so we can go look elsewhere.


    So you're another Wikipedia scholar. Nice.