How to deal with a bad person among my friends

  • theonewhoknoc...

    Posts: 714

    Mar 26, 2014 5:08 AM GMT
    A few months ago, one of the older guys who tags along our circle of friends started a FWB arrangement with an 18 year old kid (he's in his 50's). The kid happens to be one of the kids that I volunteered with last year, so I knew about his past abuse and emotional vulnerability.

    Hence even though it's "legal" and all, I can barely contain my disgust with the situation, not to mention the kid looks like he's 15. Most of my friends are morally ambivalent about it, and lets the guy tag along despite my urging, mostly because he is very "generous" and buys our group tons of drinks and food (I and a few others always pay for ourselves though).

    Just over a month ago, he was subtly boasting to us about sleeping with other guys on the side, so I couldn't take it any more and half-jokingly asked him how he sleeps at night. The guy says there's nothing wrong with what he's doing because "he's a consenting adult". When I brought up the kid's emotional vulnerability, he basically responded that since it's "legal" the morality of it is meaningless, subjective and up to interpretation, something to that effect. My friends supported and clarified my argument, but without really putting their foot down. I was furious, but luckily the bar was closing at that moment, so the inevitable escalation of the argument that would have made things awkward for everyone didn't occur. He told me he's looking forward to continuing this "discussion", to which I just sighed and laughed.

    Unfortunately, I see him almost everywhere, at the gym, on the street in the village, with my friends, etc. It's gotten obvious to my friends that I haven't spoken a word to him, or even responded to his greetings, in fear that something extremely contemptuous will blurt out. At least 2 other friends confided that they feel as strongly as I do about this, but are unable to do anything. We like our friends, and don't want to leave them, but feel disgusted and morally compromised by having someone like this guy in our midst.

    Advice??

    edit: I forgot to mention that I'm not close with the 18 year old, nor do I have any contact info. I only know about his situation because I asked a program coordinator about his odd behavior when we were volunteering together (he has some mental illness related to his abuse). The only time I've seen him since last summer is that one time when the older guy paraded and fondled him in front of us to prove that he's seeing an 18 year old, (because no one believed him when he was showing us pictures of the kid on his phone). Anyhow, I don't think contacting him will be useful since he is too messed up to understand, nor has any reason to trust us more than the guy showering him with free drinks lol.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 26, 2014 5:25 AM GMT
    You're asking on advice on how to deal with a bad person whom your friends tolerate... the details don't matter as much. So FIRST, change a few distracting details to prevent the RJ queens from going after you (yes, YOU):

    -make the old guy young, to avoid accusations of ageism

    -make the kid underage. Tons of gays hide within the margins of the law. Statutory rape is a bit harder to defend tho

    it's silly, but this is Realjock lol
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 26, 2014 5:34 AM GMT
    If your friend is the vulnerable person in the relationship then talk to him and try and get him to see sense. As you said he confided his past vulnerabilities so he obviously trusts you.

    It sounds like maybe your other friends aren't interested in the young guys wellbeing and are more interested in the other guys wallet.

    If the guy in his 50s is being respectful though and has a mutual agreement that they can see other people then there's probably no problem to worry about. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 26, 2014 6:56 AM GMT
    jmusmc85 saidI see nothing wrong with what he's doing. They are both consisting adults. They are not in a relationship and he's not being abusive to him.

    May I just politely say to mind your own business....icon_neutral.gif


    The OP already stated his impatience with the guy's "he's a consenting adult" excuse, and you still can't spell "consenting" properly? lol

    OP, talk to your 18 year old friend. It doesn't solve the fact that you have to deal with this monster everyday, but at least it might prevent harm to someone you know.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 26, 2014 8:45 AM GMT
    I totally understand your frame of mind and I almost feel the same way. In the perfect world, every gay man has a partner around their age, gay men aren't promiscuous, gay men dont become jaded, frustrated and tired of dating and relationships, and older gay men don't take advantage of much younger, vulnerable guys. We both know that this is not the world we live in icon_eek.gif.

    You dont have to like, respect or honor this guy for the way he conducts himself with your friend or the things he says. You should realize though that by being difficult, you may be making things difficult on your friend and that this could potentially land in you in a situation where this older gentleman ends up tearing your friend away from you and the circle. I realize that you fundamentally disagree with what's going on in this situation but you also have to see the bigger picture; choose your own battles.

    Have you tried discussing this with your friend? Does he know that the older gentleman he's seeing is also seeing/sleeping with other guys? That's really what your role comes down to: being a good friend. It would not hurt to give him guidance and someone to talk to. At the end of the day though, this friend is 18; he's old enough to start making responsible decisions for himself, regardless of whether or not he's emotionally 'ready' to make them. You have to let him think and act for himself. Part of growing from the 18-year-old/innocent mentality comes from experience in making your own decisions and not only learning from the outcomes of them, but also owning those outcomes.
  • Amira

    Posts: 329

    Mar 26, 2014 3:16 PM GMT
    Since they have are FwBs, chances are they are not totally exclusive.

    I can understand how the situation upsets you since you know personally the abuse your friend had went through, and of course you don't want to see him with some guy who is clearly only interested in what he can get. The fact that he brings up "well it's legal" shows just how selfish and ignorant he is to the points you have brought up. There are a lot of things that are legal, that vary from state to state, continent to continent, but it doesn't mean everything legal should also be conducted.

    I also think you should re-evaluate some of your friends. I don't think it's worth to have a bad egg in the circle just because they are "generous". These are just my personal opinions however.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 26, 2014 3:35 PM GMT
    Amira said
    The fact that he brings up "well it's legal" shows just how selfish and ignorant he is to the points you have brought up.

    I think you've found the heart of the matter. The older guy just cares about his own interests & pleasures. The teenager is an expendable toy.

    If not, he might have said they were both very fond of each other, maybe even more. The older guy would have spoken about love, not legalities.

    Now can 2 people, of any age, simply be having a physical relationship, that pleases them both, minus any issues or pretenses of love? Of course they can, I've had some myself.

    But the OP says this teenager may not be a good candidate for that, because of his emotional history. Some of his friends seem to agree with that assessment.

    Frankly I would cut this older guy out of the OPs circle, if his other friends will concur, but maintain ties with the teenager. And if his wallet is swaying their decision to let him remain, then the OP may have another problem besides just the creeper.
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    Mar 26, 2014 4:50 PM GMT
    Talk to the 18 YO kid. If he's that vulnerable you could be a should for him to rely on.
  • Puppymuncher

    Posts: 163

    Mar 26, 2014 10:47 PM GMT
    LionEyes said
    theonewhoknocks saidA few months ago, one of the older guys who tags along our circle of friends started a FWB arrangement with an 18 year old kid (he's in his 50's). The kid happens to be one of the kids that I volunteered with last year, so I knew about his past abuse and emotional vulnerability.

    Hence even though it's "legal" and all, I can barely contain my disgust with the situation, not to mention the kid looks like he's 15. Most of my friends are morally ambivalent about it, and lets the guy tag along despite my urging, mostly because he is very "generous" and buys our group tons of drinks and food (I and a few others always pay for ourselves though).

    Advice??


    As soon as I read the 2nd paragraph I didn't need to keep reading further...

    If you have no moral objection to this sugar daddy pay for you and your friends' good time, you can't have moral objection for him dating someone 40 yrs younger either.
    You can't apply morals when it's convenient and don't when it's not. If the situation with the kid really bothers you all you can do it's offer advice to the kid and distance yourself from that group of "friends".

    That's ALL.




    He does have moral objections against the guy paying, or did you conveniently ignore the part where he said he always pays for himself? That's a clear objection to the 'sugar daddy' buying people's friendships.



    OP, talk to your friend about this. At the end of the day, it's his life. If he knows everything that's going on, and is fine with it, then that's all you can do. If you really dislike the older guy, either don't talk to him or just stop hanging out with that group altogether and just hang out with the ones you like. You say there's people who feel the same as you, get a bunch of them together and create a new posse.
  • theonewhoknoc...

    Posts: 714

    Mar 27, 2014 2:36 AM GMT
    I forgot to mention that I'm not close with the 18 year old, nor do I have any contact info. I only know about his situation because I asked a program coordinator about his odd behavior when we were volunteering together (he has some mental illness related to his abuse). The only time I've seen him since last summer is that one time when the older guy paraded and fondled him in front of us to prove that he's seeing an 18 year old, (because no one believed him when he was showing us pictures of the kid on his phone).

    Again, no one wants to leave the group; we just need a way to convince the rest of the group that the old guy has to go. I don't think contacting the kid, even if I could, would be productive, since he's so messed up he's probably convinced that the guy genuinely loves him.
  • whytehot

    Posts: 1167

    Mar 27, 2014 4:00 AM GMT
    ^^Based on his other posts, I'd take this guy's advice with a grain of salt... he's too busy shitting out condoms to read properly, notably the part where OP rejected all suggestions to talk to the 18 year old. Like we get it already, you're a slut only capable of giving slutty advice...

    It's a tough situation, and I sure as hell won't want to wake up one day realizing that none of my friends have any integrity.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 27, 2014 7:21 AM GMT
    If you think this guy is being taken advantage of then I guess you should kinda just say to this guy what he is doing is wrong and explain the circumstances.

    It's possible that this relationship is actually good though. The 50 year old has someone to show off and the 18 year old gets to learn from the 50 year old and they may both have a good time doing it. Personally if an older guy wanted me I wouldn't care if he had bad intentions at the beginning because I'd try and win him round and make a long lasting relationship out of it.

    How many relationships start with the noblest intentions anyways? Usually it starts as attraction or lust and becomes something more over time. icon_biggrin.gif

    Plus if this guy has had such a bad time of it then maybe having this older guy to look out for him will work out.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 28, 2014 12:50 AM GMT
    Thom1993 saidIt's possible that this relationship is actually good though. The 50 year old has someone to show off and the 18 year old gets to learn from the 50 year old and they may both have a good time doing it....Plus if this guy has had such a bad time of it then maybe having this older guy to look out for him will work out.


    EW?

    Oh it's Thom1993 again, but hidden. I've always suspected he and jumpmanjosh are actually old men pretending to be young dudes encouraging inter-generational sex. Just based on OP's account, it would be obvious to anyone without an agenda that this relationship can't possibly be "actually good"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 28, 2014 1:10 AM GMT
    The OP has some pretty sketchy friends. I'd look into why you hang out with such morally imbecilic losers and worry less about what old men are doing to other consenting adults, albeit over 50 guys banging teenagers is just way too weird for me.
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    Mar 28, 2014 3:40 AM GMT
    hentailover said
    Thom1993 saidIt's possible that this relationship is actually good though. The 50 year old has someone to show off and the 18 year old gets to learn from the 50 year old and they may both have a good time doing it....Plus if this guy has had such a bad time of it then maybe having this older guy to look out for him will work out.


    EW?

    Oh it's Thom1993 again, but hidden. I've always suspected he and jumpmanjosh are actually old men pretending to be young dudes encouraging inter-generational sex. Just based on OP's account, it would be obvious to anyone without an agenda that this relationship can't possibly be "actually good"


    Shut up you stupid little prick. If you read a few posts above I said:

    If your friend is the vulnerable person in the relationship then talk to him and try and get him to see sense. As you said he confided his past vulnerabilities so he obviously trusts you.

    It sounds like maybe your other friends aren't interested in the young guys wellbeing and are more interested in the other guys wallet.

    If the guy in his 50s is being respectful though and has a mutual agreement that they can see other people then there's probably no problem to worry about.


    I only then decided to offer another opinion in the interest of fairness because I don't know the people involved. Also unlike you I don't sit around throwing stones inside of glass houses and making silly little judgements about people.

    Oh by the way I stopped thinking that sticking my tongue out was cool way back in school. The fact you think it's appropriate for a 27 year old to put a picture like that on his profile says way more about you than it does me.

    You'll be happy to know I'm deleting my profile now. I merely hid it while I made my mind up but this place is a bit to catty for me. Even when my profile is hidden I get insulted!

    I might like older guys (which obviously means I'm an older guy in disguise - or maybe it's normal for some guys to like guys a little older duh!) but don't hate me just because you have to wait in the bar until 4am for the guys who are less picky to even consider you! Oh well bye bye fugly icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Mar 28, 2014 4:17 AM GMT
    I have quite a bit of experience in this and I am just going to put it out that I don't think there's anything you can do. I was in a similar situation when I was 15 and while there were differences (I.e. The guy I was seeing was married) if anyone had known about us and tried to talk me out of it I would 100% carried on and not listened. You just have to let him make his own mistakes icon_neutral.gif
  • theonewhoknoc...

    Posts: 714

    Apr 10, 2014 3:00 AM GMT
    Thom1993 saidIf the guy in his 50s is being respectful though and has a mutual agreement that they can see other people then there's probably no problem to worry about...


    Ew, that sounds about as healthy as craigslist. Sexual predators are notorious for being "respectful"... that's how they play into the hearts of their victims.



    jmusmc85 saidMy position still stands. Mind your own damn business. This guy is not a "monster". Douchy and arrogant?


    Where did you get that he's "arrogant"? The guy has an obvious inferiority complex, hence looking to get validation from younger guys, tagging along and paying his way into our circle, bragging about his conquests like a horny 18 year old, etc.

    No real update other than another sighting of him in our circle last night. My friends and I refer to him by his initials, because his first name "Dave" is too common a name to associate with such a disgusting person.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 10, 2014 12:42 PM GMT
    I don't have any friends who are in their 50s, so I have no idea what I'd do. If they both enjoy it then why not, i guess.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 11, 2014 4:18 AM GMT
    Thom1993 said
    hentailover said
    Thom1993 saidIt's possible that this relationship is actually good though. The 50 year old has someone to show off and the 18 year old gets to learn from the 50 year old and they may both have a good time doing it....Plus if this guy has had such a bad time of it then maybe having this older guy to look out for him will work out.


    EW?

    Oh it's Thom1993 again, but hidden. I've always suspected he and jumpmanjosh are actually old men pretending to be young dudes encouraging inter-generational sex. Just based on OP's account, it would be obvious to anyone without an agenda that this relationship can't possibly be "actually good"


    Shut up you stupid little prick...

    You'll be happy to know I'm deleting my profile now. I merely hid it while I made my mind up but this place is a bit to catty for me. Even when my profile is hidden I get insulted! icon_smile.gif


    What sock wouldn't when exposed lol.
  • smegnificient

    Posts: 269

    Aug 26, 2014 1:28 AM GMT
    I have a similar situation with a 18 y/o black friend of mine (not sure if his race is relevant, but it seems like this never happens with white guys). He doesn't have much money, and thinks that the older guy (mid 40's) will take care of him for life. Since they've met, he hasn't paid for anything (clothes, food, rent, rolex watches, trips to Europe, etc).

    The rest of us told him that it would be so easy for the older guy to buy a new boy toy once he gets too old for him, and meanwhile he would have thrown away his good-looking years for money, like a hooker.

    It's very sad how often guys my age confuse generosity/love with "fees paid for services".
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 26, 2014 1:37 AM GMT
    smegnificient saidI have a similar situation with a 18 y/o black friend of mine (not sure if his race is relevant, but it seems like this never happens with white guys). He doesn't have much money, and thinks that the older guy (mid 40's) will take care of him for life. Since they've met, he hasn't paid for anything (clothes, food, rent, rolex watches, trips to Europe, etc).

    The rest of us told him that it would be so easy for the older guy to buy a new boy toy once he gets too old for him, and meanwhile he would have thrown away his good-looking years for money, like a hooker.

    It's very sad how often guys my age confuse generosity/love with "fees paid for services".


    It starts off with enjoying the gifts but then there is genuine affection and once that happens its far too easy to just get used, abused and then dumped at a whim. The sad thing is your friend probably won't listen.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 875

    Aug 28, 2014 8:12 AM GMT
    @OP

    In all honesty, there is little you can do about this.

    Your group of friends do not see themselves as being moral guardians of anyone, least of all of a generous guy in his 50's. Whatever their reasons may be, they have apparently demonstrated that while they see your point, there is nothing they want to do about it.

    Even if you somehow managed to kick this guy out of your group of friends, that would not necessarily help his 18 y.o. FwB. Their friendship will probably remain unaffected.

    I have come across a number of guys involved in all sorts of intergenerational relationships. It is wrong to perceive them all as being abusive and exploitative of anyone.

    One of the younger guys put it in a very simple way. He said, I am getting as much sex as I need. All the guys want to mess around with me, and that is pretty much the end of it. This one guy takes good care of me. What's wrong with that?

    SC