The Broadband Gay

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    Dec 27, 2008 2:10 PM GMT
    That's a kind of "wide spectrum" gay who's neither all femmy nor all butch, but who can move between both worlds, and all the places in-between.

    I've been reminded of this because of a few recent RJ threads about fem & masc issues, and about leather-clad gay Harley riders. I wear Harley leathers and ride motorcycles, but I also do drag for a laugh. I'm a retired US Army Colonel of 25 years service, but I also get a giggle from outrageous campy silliness at times.

    Basically butch, I can turn on the swish like a switch when I choose. And sometimes I combine the two at once, like outdoor gay camp-outs where I turn my camper trailer into a gay pride celebration. High heels in the hinterlands is an amazing sight indeed, sorta like climbing that Australian mountain in Priscilla.

    So how many of you keep a foot in both of those worlds? Or are you pretty much all one type? Being RJ, I would expect plenty of all-butch responses (one of the reasons I like this group), but will any admit to a broader range? And I hope no flaming, since my purpose is to explore the gay experience, not to excoriate it.
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    Dec 27, 2008 3:17 PM GMT


    Word of the day : excoriate. Like that!

    We'd both fall into the plain old guy thing. But then, we're plain old guys. Hah!
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    Dec 27, 2008 3:50 PM GMT
    meninlove said

    Word of the day : excoriate. Like that!

    We'd both fall into the plain old guy thing. But then, we're plain old guys. Hah!

    I have a weakness for alliteration, needed an "ex-" word that means to criticize sharply, to pair with "explore." I actually wanted a more common word, but couldn't think of one. But I blush at "turn on the swish like a switch," really awful. I wonder how many gay guys can say that 3 times fast? LOL!
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    Dec 27, 2008 9:20 PM GMT
    I can do drag just as much as I can do leathers, I've the legs for heels and the shoulders to a riders jacket ;)

    lifes waaay to short to demand that I keep my self in one state, its like being a top or a bottom, why do only one thing when you can do it all..

    I get that there will be guys who will only be one thing, but why limit your self when theres so much out there to experience and enjoy!

    Now wheres my handbag and helmet, I need to go shopping!
  • TigerFrank

    Posts: 11

    Dec 27, 2008 9:50 PM GMT
    I'm with ya Vespa. I've been in many Harley chapters,have had my bike painted by an Hells Angle and may have seen you at one of the many Sturgis rallies I have been to, but didn't know it. I'm also a retired military man and I own a farm. So I say I can be butch. But let me get surprised by something (the best is a mouse inside) and I can let out the most horrific bitch scream on the planet. If you don't know I'm gay, you do then !
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    Dec 28, 2008 9:13 PM GMT
    Hmmm, "broadband" gay, are you sure you aren't just fickle. And by saying this are you thus implying that other gays, some other gays, most other guys are rigid and 1 dimensional. Red Vespa, you haven't secured the market on dichotomy, it's something most all of us have. Infact, take most "femmy" gay men and drop them off in lawton with a suitcase and a warning, come back in a week and I bet they will have toned it down A LOT, not because they was faking from the start or because they always had some deep seated desire to be more "manly", but because adaptation is a human trait, not as closely connected to personality, honor, or even desire as you'd like to think.

    Actually, I've always thought that being more feminine than straight men is a natural gay trait or, if not natural, a more common gay trait. However, being masculine is the most accepted identity for a male in most areas so thus, many men do what they need to do and adapt. If it's an adaptation, can you really call it an act or even a choice, I don't think so.

    Infact, I feel adaptations are so instinctual as to be categorized as facets of "identity" when they happen. When you were born, you were a blank slate, you had no identity. Your identity had to be cultivated by socialization, by your surroundings, and by your own choices. How hard would it be for you to try and calculate how much what you were taught, your surroundings, and your choices had on who you are? You can't so you have to count it as a whole in determining what led to your identity; because you can't pinpoint choice, you can't say with complete exclusion from everything else, that you choose to be who you are.

    It's a combination of many things that someone "is" butchy, femmy, "broadband". You, for example must perceive that you have to suppress what ever traits come to you naturally (I don't know what those are), thus rendering them almost spurious. Someone else, who is more butchy or femmy may feel and be in a position socially and geographically to embrace certain traits more than you do. If they had to, however; they could be just as industrious as you and "move between two worlds" with as much if not more, stealth.

    Do not get identity, mixed up with traits, if "feminininty" is a gay trait and gay is not a choice but something people are born with, inprinted on their DNA, gay traits are here before Identity can be constructed. Put that in your pipe and smoke it, Mr. Broadband.

    (I am not a scientist, the above are personal theories rooted in my life experiences and various courses I've taken in science, biology, sociology, and psychology).

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    Dec 28, 2008 9:37 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear said
    Hmmm, "broadband" gay, are you sure you aren't just fickle. And by saying this are you thus implying that other gays, some other gays, most other guys are rigid and 1 dimensional. Red Vespa, you haven't secured the market on dichotomy...


    You make erroneous assumptions about me based upon nothing more than your own speculation, and then proceed to attack me at length for them. I hoped for comments on this concept, which may or not have merit. Instead you assault me personally.

    I propose another type of gay: the Contrary, who has nothing better to do than attack for fun & pleasure, whose place in the gay community is marked not by contribution, but by professional opposition.
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    Dec 28, 2008 9:40 PM GMT
    I am stuck in the gray area in the middle of the gay spectrum. I have nothing in common with the effeminate types but I feel those at the other extreme to be too rude. All I know is I keep people guessing!
  • stevarino7

    Posts: 149

    Dec 28, 2008 9:47 PM GMT
    I have always fought on being labeled feminine or masculine because it sets up an expectation that I do not feel compelled to live up to. A lot of people take that as me being feminine and not wanting to own up to it, which is fine for people to think. Either way, I would not really say I was one or the other, but in the middle. Which is I suppose as you put it, a "broadband" gay.
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    Dec 28, 2008 9:53 PM GMT
    agri_sci saidI am stuck in the gray area in the middle of the gay spectrum. I have nothing in common with the effeminate types but I feel those at the other extreme to be too rude. All I know is I keep people guessing!


    And it's all good. I may have been confusing in my OP, in appearing to promote the "broadband" gay as an ideal.

    Rather, I wondered how many of us there are. And also to suggest that it's a viable type of gay that's often overlooked, in a world where we typically want black or white answers. Either we're all fem or all masc; but maybe some of us can exist as both, and successfully alternate between the two? Thoughts?
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    Dec 28, 2008 10:02 PM GMT

    I didn't attack you, I made a point to back up every speculation I made about you so don't try. Surely you didn't expect noone to object to your obvious belief that to have a well rounded view towards sexuality is to be pc.

    I DID NOT ATTACK you so don't try to make me out to be a villian just because you don't agree with my opinion on the issue of fem & masc issues. You made yourself a suitable case study by removing yourself from either group and designating yourself as a "broadband" gay, something none of us know what that is.

    Excuse me for wanting to investigate something alien to me. Although most of my comments were aimed at the subject of femininity/masculinity, society, and the existence of traits, any comment I made at you specifically was based on what I think I know about you from what you write and facts you've supplied about yourself in this very post. For example, I know you lived on the outskirts of homosexuality for a long time, (couldn't be identified because of your job, values, whatev), do you really think noone is going to object when you make emphatic statements about the "life" when you are still just a newbie in comparison to some of these butch/fems you speak of who have been out longer than you.

    Post after post, you're keeping score, trying to make distinctions, and trying to categorize gay/feminine, masculine,.....I think I have more than enough to form opinions about you. That's more than you've done for me. Rather than state an informed opinion about me you just tried to call me a villian and be done with it. I'm not a villian. Stop dueling with me.
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    Dec 28, 2008 10:04 PM GMT
    stevarino7 saidI have always fought on being labeled feminine or masculine because it sets up an expectation that I do not feel compelled to live up to. A lot of people take that as me being feminine and not wanting to own up to it, which is fine for people to think. Either way, I would not really say I was one or the other, but in the middle. Which is I suppose as you put it, a "broadband" gay.


    Labels are always problematic. We tend to like labels when they please us: I like to be labeled gay, and a motorcyclist, and lots of other things I want to be associated with. I bet many of us do that in different ways.

    But labels that confine, limit and disadvantage, especially to suit the agendas of others, become another matter. I am neither all masculine nor all feminine, but both, as I choose to be.

    And if you label yourself as all masculine, or feminine, or both, or none of the above, that's just fine. And being "in the middle" is great, too.
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    Dec 28, 2008 10:17 PM GMT
    GuiltyGear saidSurely you didn't expect noone to object to your obvious belief that to have a well rounded view towards sexuality is to be pc...

    You continue to argue against an erroneous assumption about me, even if it seems "obvious" to you. I think the gay spectrum is infinite, and all valid, yet one condition that might be overlooked has been this "wide spectrum" concept. It's not better, and certainly not "pc" (where did you get that???) but just one more way we gays can be.

    As for my newness, it's true I've only been out for 15 years. But I hope I've been a quick study, and my other years weren't totally spent under a log, while I learned a little about life in general. Generalities that I've found have useful applications in the gay world, that perhaps some gays, having never lived anything else but gay, might not fully appreciate. We can each only offer what we know, and learn from others who know different things.