Increasingly, Opposition to Gay Marriage Is Like Racism

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    Apr 06, 2014 4:49 AM GMT
    NYT: The language in the high court’s ruling “demolished every argument put forward to justify marriage discrimination,” said Evan Wolfson, the founder and president of the advocacy group Freedom to Marry. And that ruling, he added, helped to pave the way for all the court victories — in Utah, in Oklahoma, in Texas — since. This coming Thursday, the United States circuit court in Denver will hear an appeal of the decision by a federal judge in Utah to allow gay and lesbian couples there to wed. The case could have a sweeping effect on a region of the country not typically considered progressive. It could also wind up at the Supreme Court and give the justices a chance to do what they stopped short of last year: decree marriage equality nationwide.

    Wolfson noted a fascinating angle of the recent court rulings and of the blessing that Eric Holder gave in February to state-level attorneys general who didn’t want to defend bans on gay marriage. Both invoked racial discrimination in the country’s past, casting bans on same-sex marriage in that context.

    Increasingly, opposition to gay marriage is being equated with racism — as indefensible, un-American.

    Do you agree that opposition to gays is like racism?

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/04/06/opinion/sunday/bruni-the-new-gay-orthodoxy.html?hp&rref=opinion&_r=0
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    Apr 06, 2014 7:27 AM GMT
    Probably more akin to bigotry
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    Apr 06, 2014 4:48 PM GMT
    woodsmen said
    Do you agree that opposition to gays is like racism?


    It is important to recognize the context in which they are similar, that is they are both fundamentally about civil rights.

    Where they are not the same is in the experience.
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    Apr 06, 2014 5:02 PM GMT
    I didn't think that Bruni's essay was very good - his point came across in a rather confused way.

    A. Yes, racism and homophobia are both just different versions of xenophobia. BFD.

    B. (This is what he was trying to get at.) Is the zero-tolerance slap-down of Brendan Eich just knee-jerk application of new dogma? That is, are we developing a natural morality, in which ideas of fairness are arrived at through rational means, or are we just replacing one mindless dogma with another one?
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    Apr 06, 2014 7:08 PM GMT
    mindgarden said
    B. (This is what he was trying to get at.) Is the zero-tolerance slap-down of Brendan Eich just knee-jerk application of new dogma? That is, are we developing a natural morality, in which ideas of fairness are arrived at through rational means, or are we just replacing one mindless dogma with another one?


    Mindless dogma has been around for a very long time because by it's nature it is difficult to completely eliminate: it's mindless.

    There is also no question that it exists on both sides of the LGBT civil rights debate.

    I'm not sure that the Eich situation is an example of the LGBT community playing into a mindless dogma.

    Eich continued to work at Mozilla with no issues until he was made CEO.

    With the CEO position comes a great deal of responsibility to the employees and the social awareness of the company. Mozilla has prided itself in being an organization dedicated to diversity and a supporter of marriage equality.

    While it is certainly an individual's right to have an opinion on the marriage equality debate, it is clear by his position that he does not support the company stance on the issue. When you feel strongly enough to give money towards an issue it is clear that you feel as if you are invested in the fight.

    The anti-gay lobbyist were also asking for his removal because he said he would not allow his personal feelings to prevent him from being fair at work. In other words he was being pressured to be discriminatory by the very people he was funding with his personal finances.

    I highly doubt that Chik-Fil-A or Hobby Lobby would hire a gay CEO, an atheist CEO or even a CEO who was providing money to organizations that they feel do not represent the views of the company. If they did they would likely draw the ire of their client base.

    Let's not forget that World Vision just recently turned around their decision to hire employees in same-sex marriages because of a public outcry. This again a situation where a decision went against the company's social views. A board member also resigned because of conflicting beliefs with the company.

    While we would like to believe people can as CEO put aside their personal beliefs for the good of the company, I think that some issues are too polarizing for people to do so entirely. The CEO position is an extremely important one to the company and as such has a much higher level of scrutiny.
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    Apr 07, 2014 2:27 AM GMT
    Legally I agree that opposition to gay marriage is similar to laws designed to disenfranchise black people. Both are rooted in personal beliefs that could not stand up to legal scrutiny.
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    Apr 07, 2014 2:32 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    creyente said
    woodsmen said
    Do you agree that opposition to gays is like racism?


    It is important to recognize the context in which they are similar, that is they are both fundamentally about civil rights.


    And Obama "evolved" to the position of "let's leave the definition of who gets what civil rights to the states." Real brave.


    I think that is where the battle currently belongs. Pushing the to the national level too quickly would have only led to defeat and animosity. With this strategy we are consistently showing the public that our opponents are hiding behind religion and fear alone not a desire to protect society.
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    Apr 07, 2014 2:44 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    And Obama "evolved" to the position of "let's leave the definition of who gets what civil rights to the states." Real brave.

    And what is YOUR position on gay marriage? Do you support the unequivocal anti-gay marriage position of the Republican leadership?

    If you do support same-sex marriage, then you would be pro-Democrat, and pro-Obama. Because you wouldn't find much support for it on the other side of the political aisle.

    Obama eliminated DADT and DOMA. Against Republican Party opposition, that still continues. The Republican Party would like to reinstate both, and is fighting same-sex marraige at every turn.

    So I ask again, what is YOUR position on gay marriage? For it or against it, and which US political party is for it, and which is against it?

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    Apr 07, 2014 2:55 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    creyente said
    woodsmen said
    Do you agree that opposition to gays is like racism?


    It is important to recognize the context in which they are similar, that is they are both fundamentally about civil rights.


    And Obama "evolved" to the position of "let's leave the definition of who gets what civil rights to the states." Real brave.


    Clearly that didn't happen since Eric Holder announced that the federal government will recognize the same-sex marriages performed in Michigan, even though state leader, governor Rick Snyder, does not.
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    Apr 07, 2014 10:26 AM GMT
    owl_bundy saidracism and homophobia are two different struggles that should be treated in different respects.


    icon_idea.gif
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    Apr 07, 2014 10:27 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    creyente said
    woodsmen said
    Do you agree that opposition to gays is like racism?


    It is important to recognize the context in which they are similar, that is they are both fundamentally about civil rights.


    And Obama "evolved" to the position of "let's leave the definition of who gets what civil rights to the states." Real brave.


    Well he does believe that marriage is between one man and one women; because he told us so.
  • creature

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    Apr 07, 2014 10:57 AM GMT
    Decadence_of_Art said
    southbeach1500 said
    creyente said
    woodsmen said
    Do you agree that opposition to gays is like racism?


    It is important to recognize the context in which they are similar, that is they are both fundamentally about civil rights.


    And Obama "evolved" to the position of "let's leave the definition of who gets what civil rights to the states." Real brave.


    Well he does believe that marriage is between one man and one women; because he told us so.


    No, he came out in support of marriage equality. Are you really this late to the news?
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    Apr 07, 2014 1:39 PM GMT
    Mitt Romney, 2012 republican prez candidate has been consistently against marriage equality. Really not any reasonable pro gay choice other than Obama right now.

    no a reasonable republican pro gay choice for the next presidential election either.




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    Apr 07, 2014 1:50 PM GMT
    ART_DECO said
    southbeach1500 said
    And Obama "evolved" to the position of "let's leave the definition of who gets what civil rights to the states." Real brave.

    And what is YOUR position on gay marriage? Do you support the unequivocal anti-gay marriage position of the Republican leadership?

    If you do support same-sex marriage, then you would be pro-Democrat, and pro-Obama. Because you wouldn't find much support for it on the other side of the political aisle.

    Obama eliminated DADT and DOMA. Against Republican Party opposition, that still continues. The Republican Party would like to reinstate both, and is fighting same-sex marraige at every turn.

    So I ask again, what is YOUR position on gay marriage? For it or against it, and which US political party is for it, and which is against it?



    +1
    But you will not get a straight answer on this. (Pardon the pun)