The Finality Of Death

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    Apr 07, 2014 3:11 AM GMT
    This is a rather morbid discussion i guess. But one i was curious of others views.

    Have you ever wondered about the finality of death? the fact you knew someone special. Whether it was a family member, friend, co-worker, lover etc. And when they pass away... that's it. All those good times you had, all the things you wanted to say, all the events you wanted to go to. Are now impossible because of the finality of death.

    Death is so final for only the living. They (Family and friends) have to suffer, while the other person is at peace. Or so we would like to imagine.

    The reason i bring this topic up. Is because it's been a month since of my best friends passed away. He sadly passed away from a drug overdose. He used to be in a gang, and was selling for awhile. He just couldn't let that ''lifestyle'' get away from him. I wonder often what i could have done different. He was highly addicted to drugs... As was his girlfriend. Addiction is a monster and although i tried to help. He of course never wanted it. Today at work i was thinking of what i could have done for him. What i could have said, places we could have gone, life events we would experience, or hell just waking up everyday. And knowing he was only a year older than me (24) just really kind of messes with me i guess. Knowing he died, and I'm younger than him still waking up everyday.

    This is also a reason i don't go to bed angry. And always try to see my friends through any situation. You never know when someone could just be taken away at any moment.

    Has anyone else ever felt this after losing a loved one? where you always feel like there could have been just one day or two where you might have changed the situation.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:15 AM GMT
    You can't live someone else's life for them.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:22 AM GMT
    theantijock saidYou can't live someone else's life for them.


    That's the crappy part. I sometimes wish i could. But we all have our own destiny of course. I just wish there was a way i could have influenced a positive change you know? but addiction is just a monster sadly.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:23 AM GMT
    Look at the bright side. He isn't suffering anymore.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:28 AM GMT
    owl_bundy saiddeath is just death. it's just having to get over the fact that that person is no longer there. the funerals are fucking tough though. it's depressing, horrible and all in between. then everything just goes back to the way it was except of course, just one less person that you know of.

    one thing that i realized is that when someone dies, all the shit that you don't know about them, comes to light. you find out about who they know, what they did, their secrets and etc.

    but i won't lie to you though. i'm paranoid of course of losing family and friends. i also am paranoid of dying myself. sometimes, the people around me don't think or seem to be reckless as fuck so it's like damn... i hope that their recklessness doesn't get them killed. same thing with me. i drive kind of crazy on the highway where i speed. one of these days, you know, i might be heading up and down the garden state in my mom's car and wipe myself out on some bullshit. icon_neutral.gif shit would be crazy though if that really did happen and i predicted my death. it would be funny though where folks were like icon_eek.gif dude really did die in a car accident and here he is joking about it.

    you can't really control fate, man. when it's time to go, it's time to go. there's really nothing you can do. even if you save their lives, they're still going to die sooner or later.


    The fear of death is what got me off the streets when i was young. That life leads to nothing but a dead end. Nowadays i worry more about my friends or family. Even the people who have been the meanest to me in life. I would never wish death upon them. There's always room to change things in life. Once death hits that could never happen.

    I Always try to be as caring as possible. Even if i have my fights or spats with friends. I would never imagine them out of this earth forever. So when there is every any problem with somebody. Whether it's friends, family, co-worker, someone on a forum even. I always see their point of view and not just mine. And try to calmly come to a conclusion. It's not worth it in my book to get in angry arguments where people are left hurt or scared. That same person could be gone tomorrow.



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    Apr 07, 2014 3:29 AM GMT
    Xavier92 saidLook at the bright side. He isn't suffering anymore.


    That's true... which is why is say death is so final for only the living. Once their gone there suffering ends forever. But the people left behind suffer for a long time after.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:29 AM GMT
    I knew this guy and I always used to think I would hear he had died from a drug overdose. He was not really a friend but be was in a couple of my classes at university and I worked with him on one project. We were not exactly friends because he kept trying to pass off my work as his own and he conned me out of £350 after he spiked my drink but I did worry about him. He used to turn up at my uni flat even though I wanted the money back off him but he was always high so I would let him in and chat until the early hours. He only came over like once a fortnight but I soon realised I was never going to get the money back so I just tried to listen to him without getting drawn into his life and whilst keeping an eye on him so he didn't spike me or steal anything. (weirdly enough he wanted to pay me back in installments by sleeping with me but I declined).

    The last time I saw him he told me about a crime he committed and thought the police might catch up with him then i didn't hear from him again. I later discovered he is prison for the crimes (arson and attempted fraud) and even though prison is not probably not nice and he wasn't really a friend of mine I was really happy because at least in prison he is safe from himself and his addictions. Even though he we weren't friends I found maintaining that relationship really stressful and I do occasionally worry he will come out and perhaps just do drugs again and die. When we met he had already been in prison once so it's highly likely he will go back to his old life.

    It's sad but you can't be accountable for other decisions so I doubt there was much you could do.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:35 AM GMT
    From the viewpoint of science alone, death might not be final. The universe might be designed to eventually repeat itself and we would live our lives again. Could be a good thing. Could be a bad thing.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:36 AM GMT
    HamsterCheeks saidI knew this guy and I always used to think I would hear he had died from a drug overdose. He was not really a friend but be was in a couple of my classes at university and I worked with him on one project. We were not exactly friends because he kept trying to pass off my work as his own and he conned me out of £350 after he spiked my drink but I did worry about him. He used to turn up at my uni flat even though I wanted the money back off him but he was always high so I would let him in and chat until the early hours. He only came over like once a fortnight but I soon realised I was never going to get the money back so I just tried to listen to him without getting drawn into his life and whilst keeping an eye on him so he didn't spike me or steal anything. (weirdly enough he wanted to pay me back in installments by sleeping with me but I declined).

    The last time I saw him he told me about a crime he committed and thought the police might catch up with him then i didn't hear from him again. I later discovered he is prison for the crimes (arson and attempted fraud) and even though prison is not probably not nice and he wasn't really a friend of mine I was really happy because at least in prison he is safe from himself and his addictions. Even though he we weren't friends I found maintaining that relationship really stressful and I do occasionally worry he will come out and perhaps just do drugs again and die. When we met he had already been in prison once so it's highly likely he will go back to his old life.

    It's sad but you can't be accountable for other decisions so I doubt there was much you could do.



    That actually brings up a great point. One i haven't thought about much myself. Those type of relationships are very exhausting actually. I have gone through it with many people. Who were doing crimes, drugs, constantly cheating on their spouses. And it's like no matter what they never learned from their past mistakes. Some days i would laugh like ''dude what the fuck how many times can you make the same mistake'' icon_lol.gif and then come and tell me how awful he felt after. That's why addiction is an absolute beat.

    When i was young i was naive to think otherwise. I used to think being there and caring for someone would help. I also tried the entire tough love act. And the classic intervention one as well! if they don't want help... they won't take it. And i think crime is addicted for some people too. I think thousands of things beyond drugs can be addictive and harming.

    Sorry to hear about your friend in prison though. Lets hope he does learn something from being in there.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:37 AM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidFrom the viewpoint of science alone, death might not be final. The universe might be designed to eventually repeat itself and we would live our lives again. Could be a good thing. Could be a bad thing.


    If the universe were infinite, that would be a possibility but, what the hell do we know? nothing lasts forever
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:38 AM GMT
    JohnSpotter saidFrom the viewpoint of science alone, death might not be final. The universe might be designed to eventually repeat itself and we would live our lives again. Could be a good thing. Could be a bad thing.


    That's a fascinating concept. I actually loved reading about history in high school. And even till now, because history repeats itself. Literally, same mistakes and situations over and over again.

    What if we as humans... lived twice and made the same mistakes? icon_confused.gif it would be like a never ending black hole.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:40 AM GMT
    Xavier92 said
    JohnSpotter saidFrom the viewpoint of science alone, death might not be final. The universe might be designed to eventually repeat itself and we would live our lives again. Could be a good thing. Could be a bad thing.

    If the universe were infinite, that would be a possibility but, what the hell do we know? nothing lasts forever

    Not even death! icon_wink.gif
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:42 AM GMT
    theantijock saidYou can't live someone else's life for them.


    When i die i'm leaving you my feet, then you can stand up for me.

    :-)
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:43 AM GMT
    Snaz said
    theantijock saidYou can't live someone else's life for them.


    When i die i'm leaving you my feet, then you can stand up for me.

    :-)


    Hope it's the same size shoes. Jk :d icon_razz.gif
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:44 AM GMT
    JohnSpotter said
    Xavier92 said
    JohnSpotter saidFrom the viewpoint of science alone, death might not be final. The universe might be designed to eventually repeat itself and we would live our lives again. Could be a good thing. Could be a bad thing.

    If the universe were infinite, that would be a possibility but, what the hell do we know? nothing lasts forever

    Not even death! icon_wink.gif


    emot-iiam.gif literally.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:46 AM GMT
    I have already lost so many friends I don't think I can count them all. Just in 2013, I lost Arnold (age 68, heart attack), Sarah (age 60, cancer), Harvey (age 74, diabetes), and worst of all, one of my closest friends for 20 years, Adam (age 43, liver disease). It really was a horrible year, the worst for me since the AIDS years. I will miss them all forever, but most especially Adam. He was like a kid brother.
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    Apr 07, 2014 3:49 AM GMT
    lifeduringwartime23 said
    HamsterCheeks saidI knew this guy and I always used to think I would hear he had died from a drug overdose. He was not really a friend but be was in a couple of my classes at university and I worked with him on one project. We were not exactly friends because he kept trying to pass off my work as his own and he conned me out of £350 after he spiked my drink but I did worry about him. He used to turn up at my uni flat even though I wanted the money back off him but he was always high so I would let him in and chat until the early hours. He only came over like once a fortnight but I soon realised I was never going to get the money back so I just tried to listen to him without getting drawn into his life and whilst keeping an eye on him so he didn't spike me or steal anything. (weirdly enough he wanted to pay me back in installments by sleeping with me but I declined).

    The last time I saw him he told me about a crime he committed and thought the police might catch up with him then i didn't hear from him again. I later discovered he is prison for the crimes (arson and attempted fraud) and even though prison is not probably not nice and he wasn't really a friend of mine I was really happy because at least in prison he is safe from himself and his addictions. Even though he we weren't friends I found maintaining that relationship really stressful and I do occasionally worry he will come out and perhaps just do drugs again and die. When we met he had already been in prison once so it's highly likely he will go back to his old life.

    It's sad but you can't be accountable for other decisions so I doubt there was much you could do.



    That actually brings up a great point. One i haven't thought about much myself. Those type of relationships are very exhausting actually. I have gone through it with many people. Who were doing crimes, drugs, constantly cheating on their spouses. And it's like no matter what they never learned from their past mistakes. Some days i would laugh like ''dude what the fuck how many times can you make the same mistake'' icon_lol.gif and then come and tell me how awful he felt after. That's why addiction is an absolute beat.

    When i was young i was naive to think otherwise. I used to think being there and caring for someone would help. I also tried the entire tough love act. And the classic intervention one as well! if they don't want help... they won't take it. And i think crime is addicted for some people too. I think thousands of things beyond drugs can be addictive and harming.

    Sorry to hear about your friend in prison though. Lets hope he does learn something from being in there.


    Well he wasn't really a friend. He just knew where I lived. If I wasn't in when he came over he would pile things up like wheelie bins in front of my door or post blank cds through my letter box, when I was in he used go through my wardrobe and wear all my clothes and ask if he could keep stuff even though he looked ridiculous because it was too small - plus he would never tel the truth. He would say he wasn't on drugs and then i would hear him doing it in my bathroom so I was always thinking he might die in my bathroom. I just used to listen to him until he was ready to leave but in all honesty I found him menacing because you never knew what kind of mood he was going to be in. It was so exhausting I barely slept for worrying in case he came over when I was asleep and threw something at my windows and break them because he didn't use door bells.

    I don't live in that city anymore because I graduated so I hope to god he never finds me for whatever reason but I still hope for the best for him and hopefully when he gets out whenever that is and he does something good with his life.
  • SuntoryTime

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    Apr 07, 2014 4:10 AM GMT
    lifeduringwarwhere you always feel like there could have been just one day or two where you might have changed the situation.


    Unless I was directly responsible for a death, no. Death is the Great Equalizer. We will all die someday. Some people make themselves forget that fact. Don't find a way to blame yourself.
  • Webster666

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    Apr 07, 2014 4:12 AM GMT
    Whether it's cigarettes, alcohol, or drugs, there's usually nothing the addict's friends and family can do to save them. It's up to the addict to choose to quit.

    I'm sorry that you lost your friend.

    I've had 2 friends die from cigarettes, my uncle from alcohol, and both of my parents from cigarettes.
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    Apr 07, 2014 4:14 AM GMT
    lifeduringwartime23 said
    theantijock saidYou can't live someone else's life for them.


    That's the crappy part. I sometimes wish i could. But we all have our own destiny of course. I just wish there was a way i could have influenced a positive change you know? but addiction is just a monster sadly.


    You help as you can but you can only do so much. And you don't even know what help might bring harm to someone else's life. Suppose you got him to an addiction program but on his way home from group therapy he got hit by a bus. Would you then feel guilt because you helped him?

    He had the love of your friendship and that's enough.
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    Apr 07, 2014 4:15 AM GMT
    Snaz said
    theantijock saidYou can't live someone else's life for them.


    When i die i'm leaving you my feet, then you can stand up for me.

    :-)


    I'd rather a trust fund but I'll take what I can get. Maybe I can sell them to a podiatry student.
  • MikeW

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    Apr 07, 2014 4:27 AM GMT
    lifeduringwartime23 saidHas anyone else ever felt this after losing a loved one? where you always feel like there could have been just one day or two where you might have changed the situation.
    A very close gay friend of mine committed suicide and I felt this way to an extent. The weird thing about it is that the last time I saw him I'd made up my mind that I *was* going to do *something*.

    We'd been friends for many years and I was quite familiar with his psychology. He was on medications for both depression and anxiety. The last time we had dinner together, about 48 hours before he blew his brains out, he was clearly very troubled, angry, depressed and anxious. Listening to him I felt very strongly that I was going to have to intervene. My thought at the time was to arrange to give him a fairly high dose of a psychedelic drug like LSD. Doing such things in this kind of a situation is always tricky and not something I'd do lightly. But I have had some success with situations like this. Another friend, for example, who was living with HIV and very depressed about it. The experience totally turned his life around. He's still alive today.

    Of course I can't be certain it would have made a difference but what I believe is that it would have been worth a try. I mean, if one is going to off oneself with such *finality,* why not at least first go deep into that psychedelic void, shake things up, and see what gets kicked to the surface. LSD is no panacea, one still has to do the inner work of integrating whatever insights one might get. I know this from a lot of personal experience.

    But in the end, my friend took his life and ended this possibility. In hindsight I realized that he knew what he was going to do the night we had dinner, that in fact he had been saying goodbye to me but I just didn't 'get it'. His suicide, of course, isn't my responsibility but I sometimes wonder if I had been a bit more outspoken that evening, if I'd just said the *right* thing (whatever that may have been), it could have changed the whole course of his life and my own.
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    Apr 07, 2014 5:53 AM GMT
    Sharkadelic saidI have already lost so many friends I don't think I can count them all. Just in 2013, I lost Arnold (age 68, heart attack), Sarah (age 60, cancer), Harvey (age 74, diabetes), and worst of all, one of my closest friends for 20 years, Adam (age 43, liver disease). It really was a horrible year, the worst for me since the AIDS years. I will miss them all forever, but most especially Adam. He was like a kid brother.


    Ahh man icon_sad.gif I'm very sorry to hear of all these passing's sharkadelic. Hugs buddy.

    How is everything right now?
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    Apr 07, 2014 5:55 AM GMT
    Webster666 saidWhether it's cigarettes, alcohol, or drugs, there's usually nothing the addict's friends and family can do to save them. It's up to the addict to choose to quit.

    I'm sorry that you lost your friend.

    I've had 2 friends die from cigarettes, my uncle from alcohol, and both of my parents from cigarettes.


    Sorry to hear that bud. I lost a grandfather from smoking and alcohol few years ago. Thing's like that actually made me fear drugs and alcohol for years. I myself have never done any drugs. Not even marijiana at the moment. And i drink every once in awhile. But i was afraid for years that i could become addicted. The fear of addiction has kept me clean i must say.
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    Apr 07, 2014 5:59 AM GMT
    MikeW said
    lifeduringwartime23 saidHas anyone else ever felt this after losing a loved one? where you always feel like there could have been just one day or two where you might have changed the situation.
    A very close gay friend of mine committed suicide and I felt this way to an extent. The weird thing about it is that the last time I saw him I'd made up my mind that I *was* going to do *something*.

    We'd been friends for many years and I was quite familiar with his psychology. He was on medications for both depression and anxiety. The last time we had dinner together, about 48 hours before he blew his brains out, he was clearly very troubled, angry, depressed and anxious. Listening to him I felt very strongly that I was going to have to intervene. My thought at the time was to arrange to give him a fairly high dose of a psychedelic drug like LSD. Doing such things in this kind of a situation is always tricky and not something I'd do lightly. But I have had some success with situations like this. Another friend, for example, who was living with HIV and very depressed about it. The experience totally turned his life around. He's still alive today.

    Of course I can't be certain it would have made a difference but what I believe is that it would have been worth a try. I mean, if one is going to off oneself with such *finality,* why not at least first go deep into that psychedelic void, shake things up, and see what gets kicked to the surface. LSD is no panacea, one still has to do the inner work of integrating whatever insights one might get. I know this from a lot of personal experience.

    But in the end, my friend took his life and ended this possibility. In hindsight I realized that he knew what he was going to do the night we had dinner, that in fact he had been saying goodbye to me but I just didn't 'get it'. His suicide, of course, isn't my responsibility but I sometimes wonder if I had been a bit more outspoken that evening, if I'd just said the *right* thing (whatever that may have been), it could have changed the whole course of his life and my own.



    Damn man... that's horrible. I'm sorry to hear about your friend and his troubles. To live with those thoughts must have been terrifying. The thought's of pain and suicide...

    I guess that does show we have no control over others fate at all. Even if we try our very best to make others happy. Or influence a change within them.