Jamaican Prime Minister Portia Simpson-Miller has backed away from an election pledge to decriminalize homosexuality

  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Apr 09, 2014 3:26 PM GMT
    Jamaican Prime Minister backs away from pledge to legalize gay sex

    Jamaican Prime Minister Portia Simpson-Miller has backed away from an election pledge to decriminalize homosexuality, saying stakeholders must decide the issue, and she can’t say when that will happen

    - See more at: http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/jamaican-prime-minister-backs-away-pledge-legalize-gay-sex090414
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 09, 2014 4:55 PM GMT
    What an ignorant, backward country. Do they still murder white tourists on the golf course?
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    Apr 09, 2014 5:04 PM GMT
    Destinharbor saidWhat an ignorant, backward country. Do they still murder white tourists on the golf course?



    1081.gif
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 09, 2014 5:22 PM GMT
    lawkan said
    Destinharbor saidWhat an ignorant, backward country. Do they still murder white tourists on the golf course?



    1081.gif

    They did, ya know. That was rampant for years. Trying to drive out tourism as a power play for internal political reasons. Very dangerous for gays, too. Obviously.
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Apr 09, 2014 9:17 PM GMT
    You're from there? I'm no racist. You don't even know your own country's history.

    "Kingston is rated “Critical” for crime by the Department of State due to a high frequency of criminal activity throughout Jamaica. Violent crime is a serious problem, particularly in Kingston. In 2012, Kingston saw a reduction in the murder rate and other violent crimes. This reduction may be attributed to proactive police actions. There were 1,083 murders, 1,218 shootings, 763 carnal abuse, 833 rape, 2,679 robberies, 3,094 break-ins, 691 larceny cases recorded in 2012. With a population of approximately 2.7 million people, the number of murders and other violence places Jamaica in the top five tiers of the highest per capita homicide rates in the world."

    US Department of State
    Jamaica 2013 Crime and Safety Report

    Like I said, ignorant. At the time, I wasn't specifically meaning you.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Apr 09, 2014 9:25 PM GMT
    Until Jamaica permanently repeals these archaic, backward sodomy laws, a complete boycott of that country's products is in order. Also no promotion of Jamaica as a vacation destination.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 09, 2014 9:33 PM GMT
    ^^

    dude Jamaica has among the highest murder rates in the world, all the Caribbean islands do
  • ASHDOD

    Posts: 1057

    Apr 09, 2014 9:35 PM GMT
    owl_bundy said
    Destinharbor saidYou're from there? I'm no racist. You don't even know your own country's history.


    i'm american with jamaican hertiage, breh. you don't know SHIT about jamaica so why the fuck are you even in this thread.

    i bet your dumbass doesn't realize that there are white jamaicans and that there are asian and black tourists that go there to visit too. you get your info from damn tv commercials and what you heard six people tell you. please stick with talking about the united states. stop displaying your ignorance and embarrassing yourself.




    so,tell us ,whats the situation of gay rights in jamaica?
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 09, 2014 9:41 PM GMT
    MURDER.RATES.WORLD.PNG

    because it's a hell hole
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 09, 2014 9:53 PM GMT
    ^^

    let's see, I've been to Bimini, Bahamas, St Barts, Antigua, Puerto Rico, Jamaica, St Martin, Aruba (it sucks), St Vincent, St Thomas, and the Caymans.

    yeah i've been to Jamaica
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 09, 2014 9:57 PM GMT
    ^^

    all DestinHarbor implied is that Jamaica has a lot of murders, and he's correct
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    Apr 09, 2014 10:03 PM GMT
    A country with problems has problems. I'm in shock! icon_rolleyes.gif
    It is hard for something like this to happen in a country that has religion so ingrained into it's laws and culture. It doesn't have that much money and countries like this suffer from poverty, which leads to an increase in crime. Christianity is really the only thing they have, it took centuries for homosexuality to be legalised in Christian countries of the western world, so why be so hard on countries which, in history's scale, only recently had their independence from said countries.

    It will take time for things like this to happen, the fact that it was even discussed is a step in the right direction of progress if you ask me. We should stop shouting "It's horrible!" or "It's a shithole!". Just because it has the same problems any struggling country has, what countries like this need is help and to be shown the way forward, not abandonment from the countries that helped put them in this situation anyway.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 09, 2014 10:22 PM GMT
    yes it's ok to bash Russia and Iran for their homophobic ways, but we can't bash Jamiaca for the same because it's not PC - hypocrites
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14354

    Apr 09, 2014 10:23 PM GMT
    lawkan saidA country with problems has problems. I'm in shock! icon_rolleyes.gif
    It is hard for something like this to happen in a country that has religion so ingrained into it's laws and culture. It doesn't have that much money and countries like this suffer from poverty, which leads to an increase in crime. Christianity is really the only thing they have, it took centuries for homosexuality to be legalised in Christian countries of the western world, so why be so hard on countries which, in history's scale, only recently had their independence from said countries.

    It will take time for things like this to happen, the fact that it was even discussed is a step in the right direction of progress if you ask me. We should stop shouting "It's horrible!" or "It's a shithole!". Just because it has the same problems any struggling country has, what countries like this need is help and to be shown the way forward, not abandonment from the countries that helped put them in this situation anyway.
    Very good, valid points that should be food for thoughticon_idea.gif
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    Apr 09, 2014 11:36 PM GMT
    owl_bundy said
    tj85016 saidMURDER.RATES.WORLD.PNG

    because it's a hell hole


    you've never been there. how do you know that it's a hellhole?


    Your anecdotal evidence doesn't trump hard data.

    an·ec·do·tal
    ˌanikˈdōtl/
    adjective
    adjective: anecdotal

    1.
    (of an account) not necessarily true or reliable, because based on personal accounts rather than facts or research.
    "while there was much anecdotal evidence there was little hard fact"

    Plus telling people to shut up, and your "shits" and language do nothing to help state your case. The good news is you are half as likely to get murdered in Jamaica as in Columbia!


    Accusing the USA of being responsible for the ills of Jamaica seems paranoid. No proof either.

    You say "... can you please put yourselves OUT the equation for a second and think about other people besides yourselves?" You have no problem pushing other voices out so you can grandstand.

    Here's an interesting comparison: Chicago (America's most violent city of 2.7 million) vs Jamaica (Caribbean's most violent country of 2.7 million).
    The murder rate in Jamaica is DOUBLE that of Chicago, roughly 1000:500. In Jamaica's defense it was 1500 a few years ago and is going down. Chicago's murder rate is going up.

    I'm sure there are places in both areas that are safe. But I don't think I'd be comfortable walking around alone at midnight in either case.


    "Chicago's McCarthy said the city's high murder rate, up 18 percent over last year as of Dec. 16, was due to gang violence. Eighty percent of the homicides were gang-related and 80 percent of the victims were African-Americans, he said."

    That isn't racist for mentioning "African-American" any more than Destinharbor's "murder white tourists on the golf course" because they are material facts.
    If a group is targeting tourists to damage the Jamaican economy then they are doing a good job. YOUR hostility towards the US tells me the feeling is pervasive and DANGEROUS for American tourists. Carnival Cruise is no longer stopping in Acapulco and some other cities because of robberies, murders and beheadings. Some of them were tourists, white and otherwise, but most were locals.

    Germany Warns Travelers Who Plan to Visit Florida
    1993 She was the third German and sixth foreign visitor to be killed in Florida since December.
    http://articles.latimes.com/1993-04-07/news/mn-20203_1_florida-tourism

    Rather than call the race card, something needs to be done as in FL. If it's a problem, fix it.



  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 09, 2014 11:41 PM GMT
    Portia doesn't have the votes to do it, when she said that she was in favor of repeal, it was a long shot that it would actually happen and a political risk for her to even say it. Jamaica is still quite conservative, it could be another couple of decades before repeal happens.
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    Apr 10, 2014 12:12 AM GMT
    Ehhh em, would you mind if someone who lives there speaks on the issue. icon_smile.gif

    First all, I watched that news report and informed an LGBT Activist living in North America about the report.

    The PM said she is leaving it up to a conscious vote whether to repeal the law or not. Right now, she does not consider it to be a priority because there are bigger things at issue like poverty.

    On living in Jamaica as a Gay man, I will quote what I said in a previous thread:

    I live in Jamaica (born and grown) and to be honest, its not as dramatic as some make it. Yes, Jamaicans are homophobic, if you keep that out of sight and mind and avoid expressing your same sex attractions, you can live a pretty abnormal lonely life here.

    That's my situation, the only time I have ever had any sexual contact was when I was 12 with another 14 year old. I am now 29 and to be honest, love and relationship is non-existent in my life. Its hard, because it brings up another conundrum. Because I work in a rural area, its hard to maintain a single life for long without it brining up questions. Don't think its any better if you move to the urban areas, in fact, its likely worst there and dangerous.

    Jamaicans are nosy and let another persons personal life become their priority. So, issues like, a single 29 year old male I have never seen with a girl or woman before. Even in the workplace, it becomes a problem after a while.

    I would love to be out, but that puts you at risk of physical harm and even murder. Its just the reality. Also, you cannot confide in anyone, you just cannot trust anyone, because eventually they will tell someone who will tell someone, then the entire community ends up knowing your business.

    I hope to leave the country within the next 2 to 5 years so I can really be who can be without fear. I live on a beautiful island and take offense to the country being poor and dirty. Yes, its a developing nation and we still have a long way to go before reaching developed status. Economically, it is tough out here, but I am able to live, afford the things I want if I save towards them.

    Its just one of the core components of what makes me a human cannot be expressed and is threatened because of the countries strong Christian beliefs and a culture of hate towards homosexuality. I would some day to love to meet a beautiful guy I can fall in love with and make a life with. Heck, I wouldn't mind just having a nice guy in my life. You can't because of the threat that exist. Sometimes I thank God for the Internet, porn, websites like this and my right hand.

    Should you visit the island? Sure, do so, but do understand that you can't openly express your homosexuality. They are not gonna ask if you are gay or straight at the airport or hotel. You can venture out and explore the island, but do it with someone you can trust and as with any strange place, becareful plus keep it platonic!

    The people here are nice otherwise, very caring and appreciative, but the bad side exist, it is entrenched: Jamaicans do not like gay people. Its the same with my family, my mother and father and my siblings hate gay people. My father died many years ago, not out to my family and don't have intention to be. Do they know, sometimes I think so, but they just ignore it. One of my siblings brought up the topic to my mother, I think he is in stage of life where he should have a girlfriend and I find it strange. This is something my mother brought up to me.

    So, as I enter my 30s, you know its gonna get a bit more intense.

    So to conclude, the only folks who have to worry about violence are the native Gay men and women who live here.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 10, 2014 1:28 AM GMT
    ^^

    in other words, go to St Barts or Puerto Rico
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    Apr 10, 2014 2:04 AM GMT
    Well yes, if expressing your sexuality is an essential component of your vacation experience, then Jamaica is likely not the place to do it.

    I'm talking about things like:
    - PDA - hugging, kissing, holding hands, eye contact
    - Staying in the same room at a hotel or all inclusive
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 10, 2014 2:21 AM GMT
    Ive also been to Jamaica several times and currently live in Grenada (another homophobic country in the Caribbean).

    Jamaica is a SHIT HOLE. Ill never give that country another dollar. Not to mention they are ranked lower than Iran for gay rights according to the HRC.

    Just another example of how religion poisons everything.
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Apr 10, 2014 3:05 AM GMT
    Coincidentally, she was mentioned on Jeopardy! today.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 10, 2014 3:42 AM GMT
    PaulDee saidEhhh em, would you mind if someone who lives there speaks on the issue. icon_smile.gif

    First all, I watched that news report and informed an LGBT Activist living in North America about the report.

    The PM said she is leaving it up to a conscious vote whether to repeal the law or not. Right now, she does not consider it to be a priority because there are bigger things at issue like poverty.

    On living in Jamaica as a Gay man, I will quote what I said in a previous thread:

    I live in Jamaica (born and grown) and to be honest, its not as dramatic as some make it. Yes, Jamaicans are homophobic, if you keep that out of sight and mind and avoid expressing your same sex attractions, you can live a pretty abnormal lonely life here.

    That's my situation, the only time I have ever had any sexual contact was when I was 12 with another 14 year old. I am now 29 and to be honest, love and relationship is non-existent in my life. Its hard, because it brings up another conundrum. Because I work in a rural area, its hard to maintain a single life for long without it brining up questions. Don't think its any better if you move to the urban areas, in fact, its likely worst there and dangerous.

    Jamaicans are nosy and let another persons personal life become their priority. So, issues like, a single 29 year old male I have never seen with a girl or woman before. Even in the workplace, it becomes a problem after a while.

    I would love to be out, but that puts you at risk of physical harm and even murder. Its just the reality. Also, you cannot confide in anyone, you just cannot trust anyone, because eventually they will tell someone who will tell someone, then the entire community ends up knowing your business.

    I hope to leave the country within the next 2 to 5 years so I can really be who can be without fear. I live on a beautiful island and take offense to the country being poor and dirty. Yes, its a developing nation and we still have a long way to go before reaching developed status. Economically, it is tough out here, but I am able to live, afford the things I want if I save towards them.

    Its just one of the core components of what makes me a human cannot be expressed and is threatened because of the countries strong Christian beliefs and a culture of hate towards homosexuality. I would some day to love to meet a beautiful guy I can fall in love with and make a life with. Heck, I wouldn't mind just having a nice guy in my life. You can't because of the threat that exist. Sometimes I thank God for the Internet, porn, websites like this and my right hand.

    Should you visit the island? Sure, do so, but do understand that you can't openly express your homosexuality. They are not gonna ask if you are gay or straight at the airport or hotel. You can venture out and explore the island, but do it with someone you can trust and as with any strange place, becareful plus keep it platonic!

    The people here are nice otherwise, very caring and appreciative, but the bad side exist, it is entrenched: Jamaicans do not like gay people. Its the same with my family, my mother and father and my siblings hate gay people. My father died many years ago, not out to my family and don't have intention to be. Do they know, sometimes I think so, but they just ignore it. One of my siblings brought up the topic to my mother, I think he is in stage of life where he should have a girlfriend and I find it strange. This is something my mother brought up to me.

    So, as I enter my 30s, you know its gonna get a bit more intense.

    So to conclude, the only folks who have to worry about violence are the native Gay men and women who live here.


    That jives with what I've read. It's all internal hatred. There were two Gay political activists who were murdered, but they were not tourists. Seems most of the other murders are drug related. I was reading about the dance hall reggae songs that advocate killing "fags".

    "For those whose familiarity with Jamaican music begins and ends with Bob Marley, “murder music” — and its stubborn worldwide popularity — will come as a serious shock.

    Gay and lesbian activists in Jamaica and throughout the Western world have spent years trying to slow the spread of murder music."
    http://www.splcenter.org/get-informed/intelligence-report/browse-all-issues/2010/winter/harmonies-of-hate

    And no I couldn't find a thing about any tourist being murdered on a golf course, white, blue or purple.

    So much for being "laid back" and mellow! Really buddy, get the hell OUT of there!

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 10, 2014 4:03 AM GMT
    The murder music started with Boom Bye Bye in early 1990s by Buju Banton who is currently incarcerated on drug charges. That song also help to derail his chance at a mainstream career in the states when it was discovered. For many years, there was this conspiracy theory here 'the Gays' in America destroyed his life and career. In a strange twist though, it made him a better musician, he stopped singing derogatory things about women and focused more on positive and conscious music that could resonate with anybody.

    I think from that moment on, a serious change in the Jamaican culture occurred, this is around 1992, 1993. I remember growing up and hearing the word batty man and batty boy constantly (derogatory descriptions of gay men). For me personally it was devastating knowing from an early age I was Gay and not knowing anyone else who was also gay.

    It got worst in the mid 90s and early 2000s. As the year 2002 came, I don’t know how to describe it, but something started to change drastically in the Jamaican culture as it became quite apparent to me. I suspect a number of things triggered this, Internet penetration in Jamaican homes and access to cable television had accelerated providing instant access to shifting western culture that was becoming more accepting of Gay people.

    What started happening around me was the thickness of homophobia. I believe just as I had stumbled into the world of Gay pornography online, other Jamaicans were seeing it too and were disgusted by it. You could hear it in the popular songs of the day from acts like Elephant Man, TOK, Beenie Man, and Bounti Killa. Gay people became the topic and the target in many dance hall songs at the time.

    Now, this started worrying me, because at the time the culture and people started to enhance their homophobia in a way where any behavior seen as not straight was called out. Whether it was two guys sitting together, walking together and just certain things you did could be taken out of context as being a ‘batty man thing’. Even using words like 'number 2' 'backup' or 'enjoy' can make people assume you are gay here "strange enough".

    I could write a book on how homophobic this country is. Living here all my life though, you learn how to walk on thin ice.
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    Apr 10, 2014 4:30 AM GMT
    In 1981 one of my housemates in university residence was a rich kid from Jamaica and even then he bemoaned the state of crime and violence in urban areas. Here's what the Canadian government is currently telling travellers to Jamaica:

    Excerpts from it's travel advisory

    JAMAICA - Exercise a high degree of caution

    "There is no nationwide advisory in effect for Jamaica. However, you should exercise a high degree of caution due to the high level of violent crime.

    "Homosexual activity is illegal. There have been incidents where the public display of homosexual behaviour has led to acts of persecution and violence. Discretion is highly recommended."


    I have travelled to many places around the world and I will be going to the Caribbean next Spring but I have no interest in going to Jamaica. It sounds far too dangerous and frankly hostile. I rank it up there with most countries in the Middle East: beautiful no doubt, but not worth my travel money.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 10, 2014 4:56 AM GMT
    If you're a gay guy who travels to Jamaica, you kinda deserve to be killed. It's your punishment for giving them gay money.