A lot of Gay men want Marriage rights but the clause in marriage about being exclusive sexually to your husband is not culturally important in our community or is it

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    Apr 10, 2014 8:50 PM GMT
    Why do gay guys want gay marriage when many as is their right want to define their own rules with mixed results. Should monogamous relationships be more valued for gay men in order to make gay marriage become fully accepted
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    Apr 10, 2014 9:01 PM GMT
    Marriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.
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    Apr 10, 2014 9:04 PM GMT
    Xavier92 saidMarriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.


    That's not strictly marriage then. It's in law now that marriage is a contract between 2 people primarily - obviously family is involved too but the actual cere.ony is a contract between just 2 people.
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    Apr 10, 2014 9:06 PM GMT
    HamsterCheeks said
    Xavier92 saidMarriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.


    That's not strictly marriage then. It's in law now that marriage is a contract between 2 people primarily - obviously family is involved too but the actual cere.ony is a contract between just 2 people.


    Exactly because it's a societal thing, not natural. It's like peeing. Why do we humans always use the bathroom? Bathrooms aren't part of human nature but society has made us believe that peeing in a bathroom is the norm.
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    Apr 10, 2014 9:07 PM GMT
    Xavier92 saidMarriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.


    By we are you meaning the human race or gay men cause I knows some long term relationships which are monogamous but they are such a small minority of gay men. Not sure most gay men are cut out for a monogamous LTR which leads me to this forum question
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    Apr 10, 2014 9:09 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    Xavier92 saidMarriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.


    By we are you meaning the human race or gay men cause I knows some long term relationships which are monogamous but they are such a small minority of gay men. Not sure most gay men are cut out for a monogamous LTR which leads me to this forum question


    People can be monogamous and still feel physically and sexually attracted to others. It's instinctive.
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    Apr 10, 2014 9:23 PM GMT
    Xavier92 said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    Xavier92 saidMarriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.


    By we are you meaning the human race or gay men cause I knows some long term relationships which are monogamous but they are such a small minority of gay men. Not sure most gay men are cut out for a monogamous LTR which leads me to this forum question


    People can be monogamous and still feel physically and sexually attracted to others. It's instinctive.

    Nothing wrong with being attracted but cheating is different.

    These cultural/societal changes are a good thing or we go back to being cavemen driven by the ID part of the psychodynamic and we end up killing and raping people and stealing land and food etc.
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    Apr 10, 2014 9:32 PM GMT
    HamsterCheeks said
    Xavier92 said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    Xavier92 saidMarriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.


    By we are you meaning the human race or gay men cause I knows some long term relationships which are monogamous but they are such a small minority of gay men. Not sure most gay men are cut out for a monogamous LTR which leads me to this forum question


    People can be monogamous and still feel physically and sexually attracted to others. It's instinctive.

    Nothing wrong with being attracted but cheating is different.

    These cultural/societal changes are a good thing or we go back to being cavemen driven by the ID part of the psychodynamic and we end up killing and raping people and stealing land and food etc.


    Not when it comes to polygamy. A lot of people fall in love with 2 or 3 others at the same time. When people say natural, what do they mean? do humans do anything naturally? For example, we like to compare our mating rituals with the ones in nature that strike our fancy as similar. Bower birds and their silly show and tell, gibbons with the cuddling and the nests, ducks with their sexual assault. But at best these comparisons are just metaphors. The sex act takes on such a huge amount of cultural importance through the imposition of our ability to communicate with one another through language—in other words, our self-consciousness is such that finding anything natural about our practice of daily life would be a small miracle.
    My long and rambling point is that we are driven by forces outside of nature to achieve natural ends. Why do we prefer gatorade to water? Why do we need our meat to be coated in fat and seasoned? Why do we need to shit in privacy and with free wifi? Why do we need to talk for an hour and a half and then dress up in costumes in order to get enough blood into our genitals to procreate? Why do we cook our food? Why do we wear clothes? Because our lives (even the most basic, biological parts of them) are mediated by culture. Polyamory is harmless. As long as it's between consenting adults.
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    Apr 10, 2014 10:03 PM GMT
    Xavier92 said
    HamsterCheeks said
    Xavier92 said
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    Xavier92 saidMarriage was originally meant to be polygamous. We are culturally monogamous, not biologically. Nature vs nurture.


    By we are you meaning the human race or gay men cause I knows some long term relationships which are monogamous but they are such a small minority of gay men. Not sure most gay men are cut out for a monogamous LTR which leads me to this forum question


    People can be monogamous and still feel physically and sexually attracted to others. It's instinctive.

    Nothing wrong with being attracted but cheating is different.

    These cultural/societal changes are a good thing or we go back to being cavemen driven by the ID part of the psychodynamic and we end up killing and raping people and stealing land and food etc.


    Not when it comes to polygamy. A lot of people fall in love with 2 or 3 others at the same time. When people say natural, what do they mean? do humans do anything naturally? For example, we like to compare our mating rituals with the ones in nature that strike our fancy as similar. Bower birds and their silly show and tell, gibbons with the cuddling and the nests, ducks with their sexual assault. But at best these comparisons are just metaphors. The sex act takes on such a huge amount of cultural importance through the imposition of our ability to communicate with one another through language—in other words, our self-consciousness is such that finding anything natural about our practice of daily life would be a small miracle.
    My long and rambling point is that we are driven by forces outside of nature to achieve natural ends. Why do we prefer gatorade to water? Why do we need our meat to be coated in fat and seasoned? Why do we need to shit in privacy and with free wifi? Why do we need to talk for an hour and a half and then dress up in costumes in order to get enough blood into our genitals to procreate? Why do we cook our food? Why do we wear clothes? Because our lives (even the most basic, biological parts of them) are mediated by culture. Polyamory is harmless. As long as it's between consenting adults.


    Polyamory, wow this term needs to be explored more but truth is that Gay Men are always looking for ways to justify their lifestyle and feel that what they do is 'normal' by making up a term like this. I agree if the adults in a 'polyamorous' relationship/s are happy with it there shouldn't be anything preventing it however I don't think it is harmless if it is taken seriously and it's not compatible with marriage. I'm not sure why gay men feel the need to have the same rights as hetro's but be unwilling to take on the responsibility that goes with it which is mainly to be faithful to your partner. So as many seem to believe polyamory is for them great but why would those same people want full marriage rights??? I think I am technically in a polyamory situation myself so I'm not against people defining what works for them just the idea of special rights considerations. The truth is this has been going on for decades but it was referred to by other terms. What I haven't been able to work out is how can you be 'in love with someone' and be neither sexually or emotionally monogamous. It might be that f**k buddies sounds to harsh even though that polyamory is exactly the same thing.

    From Wikipedia :The term "polyamorous" can refer to the nature of a relationship at some point in time or to a philosophy or relationship orientation (much like gender or sexual orientation). It is sometimes used as an umbrella term that covers various forms of multiple relationships; polyamorous arrangements are varied, reflecting the choices and philosophies of the individuals involved. Polyamory is a less specific term than polygamy, the practice or condition of having more than one spouse. (The majority of polygamous cultures are traditionally polygynous, where one husband has multiple wives. Polyandrous societies, in which one wife has multiple husbands, are less common but do exist.[5]) Marriage is not a requirement in polyamorous relationships. The "knowledge and consent of all partners concerned"[6] is a defining characteristic of polyamorous relationships. Distinguishing polyamory from other forms of non-monogamy (e.g., "cheating") is an ideology that openness, goodwill, truthful communication, and ethical behavior should prevail among all the parties involved.[7][8] As of July 2009, it was estimated that more than 500,000 polyamorous relationships existed in the United States.[9]

    People who identify as polyamorous typically reject the view that sexual and relational exclusivity are necessary for deep, committed, long-term loving relationships. Those who are open to, or emotionally suited for, polyamory may embark on a polyamorous relationship when single or already in a monogamous or open relationship. Sex is not necessarily a primary focus in polyamorous relationships, which commonly consist of people seeking to build long-term relationships with more than one person on mutually agreeable grounds, with sex as only one aspect of their relationships. In practice, polyamorous relationships are highly varied and individualized according to those participating. For many, such relationships are ideally built upon values of trust, loyalty, the negotiation of boundaries, and compersion, as well as overcoming jealousy, possessiveness, and the rejection of restrictive cultural standards.[10] Powerful intimate bonding among three or more persons may occur. The skills and attitudes needed to manage polyamorous relationships add challenges that are not often found in the traditional "dating-and-marriage" model of long-term relationships. Polyamory may require a more fluid and flexible approach to love relationship, and yet operate on a complex system of boundaries or rules. Additionally, participants in a polyamorous relationship may not have, nor expect their partners to have, preconceptions as to the duration of the relationship, in contrast to monogamous marriages where a lifelong union is generally the goal. However, polyamorous relationships can and do last many years.
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    Apr 10, 2014 10:09 PM GMT
    YourName2000 saidI'm monogamous (it's just the way my mind/heart works) but at the same time, I don't *require* that of a partner. I've seen too many relationships fail because people had the "automatic fail" clause in their unwritten agreement...I choose to *not* give some potential third party that kind of power over my life.

    If my guy was slutting about, that wouldn't work for me at all...but a once in a blue moon thing, I could live with easily --he's coming home to me, after all. And frankly, if when we have sex it doesn't have infinitely more depth and meaning than when he fucks a stranger, then we really don't have much of a relationship to begin with.


    Totally agree and have been that way myself but relating back to marriage it's still not compatible with the vow of marriage so why do people in the gay community feel that we should have or even deserve full marriage? Guess it's just the principal of not having the exactly the same as hetro's or in other words equality for equalities sake??? Not apologising now nor will I for saying the truth
  • AMoonHawk

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    Apr 10, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
    There is no cure for HIV and who the hell wants to get an STD like herpes or syph or hepatitis .... so hell yes it is still important as ever
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    Apr 10, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    YourName2000 saidI'm monogamous (it's just the way my mind/heart works) but at the same time, I don't *require* that of a partner. I've seen too many relationships fail because people had the "automatic fail" clause in their unwritten agreement...I choose to *not* give some potential third party that kind of power over my life.

    If my guy was slutting about, that wouldn't work for me at all...but a once in a blue moon thing, I could live with easily --he's coming home to me, after all. And frankly, if when we have sex it doesn't have infinitely more depth and meaning than when he fucks a stranger, then we really don't have much of a relationship to begin with.


    Totally agree and have been that way myself but relating back to marriage it's still not compatible with the vow of marriage so why do people in the gay community feel that we should have or even deserve full marriage? Guess it's just the principal of not having the exactly the same as hetro's or in other words equality for equalities sake??? Not apologising now nor will I for saying the truth


    Not every homosexual wants to get married. The same with heterosexuals. In old times, marriage was pretty weird. The definition of marriage has changed throughout time.
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    Apr 10, 2014 10:25 PM GMT
    That's true I'm aware of that I'm just saying that our community wants to 'have its cake and eat it to'. I would hate to see wide spread child adoption which is my biggest worry coz gay guys love a new trend and just as quickly ditch the trend. For those who really can do at and some can there have been ways to adopt anyway around for ages. I love being able to define my own relationship like everyone else who is gay but marriage is a whole different thing and all to many gay guys are thinking only of is themselves without grasping that by sting all the instances of relationships that are not the societal ideal of long term and monogamous that it makes getting marriage rights and now adhering to the vow of monogamy ok but it doesn't it actually denigrates our whole society so let's get the rights we deserve as in next if Kin rights and taxation rights in a way that allows us to define our own destiny and leave the marriage institution to those who accept it in its entirety
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    Apr 10, 2014 10:28 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said
    YourName2000 saidI'm monogamous (it's just the way my mind/heart works) but at the same time, I don't *require* that of a partner. I've seen too many relationships fail because people had the "automatic fail" clause in their unwritten agreement...I choose to *not* give some potential third party that kind of power over my life.

    If my guy was slutting about, that wouldn't work for me at all...but a once in a blue moon thing, I could live with easily --he's coming home to me, after all. And frankly, if when we have sex it doesn't have infinitely more depth and meaning than when he fucks a stranger, then we really don't have much of a relationship to begin with.


    Totally agree and have been that way myself but relating back to marriage it's still not compatible with the vow of marriage so why do people in the gay community feel that we should have or even deserve full marriage? Guess it's just the principal of not having the exactly the same as hetro's or in other words equality for equalities sake??? Not apologising now nor will I for saying the truth

    People that want that kind of open relationship don't have to get married but strictly monogamous people should still have the option.
  • MikeW

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    Apr 10, 2014 10:28 PM GMT
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  • tj85016

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    Apr 10, 2014 10:33 PM GMT
    meh it's the same for straight people, people want the financial and legal benefits
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    Apr 10, 2014 10:34 PM GMT
    Thanks guys for your posts and for not letting it turn into a slag off contest like many of the topics seem to end up doing. I'm a proud gay man but also a sociologist which is what makes me want to know why and how ect
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    Apr 11, 2014 2:14 AM GMT
    LionEyes saidIt's the couple's choice to have or not a monogamous relationship. I can only speak for myself, I'm a traditionalist and I believe in monogamy and I don't do sharing. I think that many men in open relationships are men that don't really believe in commitment, they want to have someone at home to share a bed with but they also don't want to give up their single lifestyle. This is, of course, my opinion.


    +1