Gay World and the Business World... Do they mesh?

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    Dec 31, 2008 1:15 AM GMT
    So recently I have started to look into different internships at some very large corporations and have also wondered about starting some business ventures by myself. This got me to thinking, what is the business world like being a gay man?

    I am in a fraternity and so I have had a lot of experience with business men, doctors, lawyers, etc. who are all alumni and they don't seem to be very receptive to the idea of working with gay men. Now, I have never flat out asked any of them their thoughts or have come out to them specifically to see if there is any change in behavior. These assumptions are based on general mannerisms, word usage, jokes, comments, etc.

    I was just wondering if what y'all thought. Also let me know if you know of any companies that are very pro-GLBT or anywhere that is looking for a hardworking intern ;) kidding (only slightly haha)

    -Kevin
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    Dec 31, 2008 1:23 AM GMT
    Good luck with your search! My employer is not exactly a good one to start with! icon_confused.gif

    Here is a good link to start your search:
    http://www.hrc.org/issues/workplace/equal_opportunity/search_employers.htm
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    Dec 31, 2008 1:30 AM GMT
    Gays tend to do badly in the corporate world, due to endemic traits of:

    * Lack of punctuality
    * Not team players
    * Failure to accept group goals over personal agendas
    * Unreliability
    * Emotional approach to decision making
    * Conflicts with authority figures
    * General emotional instability
    * inability to deal with hostility from straight co-workers
    * Lack of supervisory skills, limiting many avenues of advancement

    Gays do better in creative environments, where individual effort is given more freedom. Naturally there are persons who are exceptions, but as a statistical group, gays are corporate failures.
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:14 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidGays tend to do badly in the corporate world, due to endemic traits of:

    * Lack of punctuality
    * Not team players
    * Failure to accept group goals over personal agendas
    * Unreliability
    * Emotional approach to decision making
    * Conflicts with authority figures
    * General emotional instability
    * inability to deal with hostility from straight co-workers
    * Lack of supervisory skills, limiting many avenues of advancement

    Gays do better in creative environments, where individual effort is given more freedom. Naturally there are persons who are exceptions, but as a statistical group, gays are corporate failures.


    WHAT?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:15 AM GMT
    In my experience, most people who have an anti-gay bias have a very detached and abstract view of what gay people are. They may be against gays in general, but if they know you personally, they seem to make an exception and think of you as not being "like most gay people".

    Of course, it doesn't occur to them that maybe their perception of gay people is biased and incorrect.
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:21 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidGays tend to do badly in the corporate world, due to endemic traits of:

    Don't these forums prove otherwise?
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:24 AM GMT
    Pinny said
    Red_Vespa saidGays tend to do badly in the corporate world, due to endemic traits of:

    Don't these forums prove otherwise?

    How?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:30 AM GMT
    Where is this gay world and how can I get to it? Do i get there through a portal like on Sliders?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliders

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    Dec 31, 2008 4:34 AM GMT
    crownroyal117 saidWhere is this gay world and how can I get to it? Do i get there through a portal like on Sliders?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sliders



    Oh my god I used to watch that when I was little
  • joggerva

    Posts: 731

    Dec 31, 2008 4:36 AM GMT
    hobronto said
    Red_Vespa saidNaturally there are persons who are exceptions, but as a statistical group, gays are corporate failures.


    WHAT?


    Seriously.

    Some citations please, Red?
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:37 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidHow?

    By showcasing a myriad of different men in all sorts of professions who don't have aforesaid qualities.

    Yes there are exceptions like you claim but the only thing gay men really have in common is being gay.

    Your generalizations are...generalizing. I don't believe your "gay traits" are unique to the gay world.

    editted: typo aren't --> are
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:38 AM GMT
    Think of business and being gay as going to work and telling everyone about how much you love plowing your wife. It gets about the same reaction.
  • joggerva

    Posts: 731

    Dec 31, 2008 4:45 AM GMT
    flex89 saidThink of business and telling everyone how much you love having gay sex as going to work and telling everyone about how much you love plowing your wife. It gets about the same reaction.


    Fixed that for ya, flex. Apples to apples. "Being gay" is not equivalent to an explicit sexual discussion.
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:46 AM GMT
    Pinny saidYour generalizations are...generalizing. I don't believe your "gay traits" aren't unique to the gay world.

    And, actually, they aren't particularly good indicators of who will and will not succeed in a corporation. Most of the CEOs and business owners I know (gay or straight...cause there's no damn difference) aren't team players, don't accept group goals over their own agendas, make emotional decisions, and generally rabble-rouse.

    But...to the original poster: Don't get too discouraged by what you hear from the frat alumni. That's more a function of the macho environment. I think you'll find that most companies are ultimately meritocracies. If you're good at what you do, you'll be fine.
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa saidbut as a statistical group, gays are corporate failures


    Really? I think you need to send that memo to:

    David Geffen
    Tom Ford
    Tim Gunn
    Gianni Versace
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:48 AM GMT
    gay people and business work.. because your sexuality is totally unimportant.. much like anything else in your personal life..

    if you are a dedicated hardworking person, your sexuality wont be a problem too 90% of the people out there cause your worth more them working for them then against them!
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    Dec 31, 2008 4:52 AM GMT
    joggerva said
    hobronto said
    Red_Vespa saidNaturally there are persons who are exceptions, but as a statistical group, gays are corporate failures.


    WHAT?


    Seriously.

    Some citations please, Red?

    Based on the commonly accepted ratio of gays to straights, there should be approximately 50 gay CEOs in Fortune 500 companies. Can anyone name them? If not, then I would conclude that gays are not as successful as straights in the corporate world.

    Gays may be employed by them, and even have middle management positions. But until gays have complete parity with straights, particularly in the senior executive ranks, then I would have to believe that gays are not as equally successful in the corporate business world.
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    Dec 31, 2008 5:14 AM GMT
    I think at most jobs in the corporate world your sex life, sexual orientation, religion, political affiliation, and life history have very little to do with the job you were hired to do. Why do your bosses, coworkers and the general public need to know you're gay? What purpose does it serve? I think there are many successful gay businesspeople and there are many people who are not cut out for it. Same as in the straight community.

    Those doctors, lawyers, and businessmen have their own skeletons that others may or may not approve of. Some are things that people definitely don't approve of.
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    Dec 31, 2008 5:32 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    Based on the commonly accepted ratio of gays to straights, there should be approximately 50 gay CEOs in Fortune 500 companies. Can anyone name them?

    Because the Kinsey scale hasn't been argued constantly about its 1 in 10 ratio factor?

    The reason I state that is because your claim is based on that fact that all 50 CEOs must be out in order to be gay.

    Who isn't to say that we do have 50 gay CEOs or more. Most of the advice in this thread is to keep your personal life out of work. A lot of us can attest to being successful at work without having everyone there know everything about us including being gay or straight.
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    Dec 31, 2008 5:40 AM GMT
    Red_Vespa said
    joggerva said
    hobronto said
    Red_Vespa saidNaturally there are persons who are exceptions, but as a statistical group, gays are corporate failures.


    WHAT?


    Seriously.

    Some citations please, Red?

    Based on the commonly accepted ratio of gays to straights, there should be approximately 50 gay CEOs in Fortune 500 companies. Can anyone name them? If not, then I would conclude that gays are not as successful as straights in the corporate world.

    Gays may be employed by them, and even have middle management positions. But until gays have complete parity with straights, particularly in the senior executive ranks, then I would have to believe that gays are not as equally successful in the corporate business world.


    Do you wear your "I am gay" shirt to work every day? icon_confused.gif
    How many of the CEOs in fortune 500 are closeted? Do you know? Didn't think so.

    There are enough people who generalize gays as a bunch of sex hungry pigs who can't function as well as straight people in the workforce, we don't need someone who bats for our team perpetuating that stereotype.
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    Dec 31, 2008 5:58 AM GMT
    surfsdown said
    Red_Vespa said
    joggerva said
    hobronto said
    Red_Vespa saidNaturally there are persons who are exceptions, but as a statistical group, gays are corporate failures.


    WHAT?


    Seriously.

    Some citations please, Red?

    Based on the commonly accepted ratio of gays to straights, there should be approximately 50 gay CEOs in Fortune 500 companies. Can anyone name them? If not, then I would conclude that gays are not as successful as straights in the corporate world.

    Gays may be employed by them, and even have middle management positions. But until gays have complete parity with straights, particularly in the senior executive ranks, then I would have to believe that gays are not as equally successful in the corporate business world.


    Do you wear your "I am gay" shirt to work every day? icon_confused.gif
    How many of the CEOs in fortune 500 are closeted? Do you know? Didn't think so.

    There are enough people who generalize gays as a bunch of sex hungry pigs who can't function as well as straight people in the workforce, we don't need someone who bats for our team perpetuating that stereotype.




    Hold up. Red_Vespa, weren't you one of the members that identified as an Alpha Gay , a leader in business world and social world? I'm just confused about how you dismiss gays as successful when you yourself identify as successful and as gay.

    Oddly enough, those most likely to be CEO's are tall. "In the U.S. population, about 14.5 percent of all men are six feet or taller. Among CEOs of Fortune 500 companies, that number is 58%. Even more striking, in the general American population 3.9 percent of adult men are six foot two or taller. Among my CEO sample, almost a third were six foot two or taller.... and only ten in my sample were below five foot six." This is from Malcolm Gladwell in his book Blink. Just wanted to add that to the mix.
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    Dec 31, 2008 5:59 AM GMT
    I guess short people aren't equally capable of being CEOs.
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    Dec 31, 2008 6:06 AM GMT
    joggerva said
    flex89 saidThink of business and telling everyone how much you love having gay sex as going to work and telling everyone about how much you love plowing your wife. It gets about the same reaction.


    Fixed that for ya, flex. Apples to apples. "Being gay" is not equivalent to an explicit sexual discussion.


    Most people don't even go so far as to say "I'm married" or "I have a girlfriend". I personally find any information about personal relationships in the workplace to be extremely inappropriate, not to mention a fair number of straight people immediately think "interracial gay butt orgy" or equivalent when someone says "I'm gay" due to all the sexual behaviors attached to the word, "gay", which you can rightfully blame on the "louder" gay guys for such an association to the word.
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    Dec 31, 2008 6:08 AM GMT

    As for volksk210, I'd say that any time you do a business deal it is going to be with those in the business world, which is a more conservative lot. However, the world needs more business leaders and innovators that are gay, are not closeted, and not ashamed of who they are. Best of luck in your future intern hunt. If I had contacts for Minneapolis I'd drop them, but I'm coming up blank.
  • bigtallguy

    Posts: 243

    Dec 31, 2008 7:37 AM GMT
    flex89 said<flex89 saidimmediately think "interracial gay butt orgy" or equivalent when someone says "I'm gay"


    I know when I hear the word gay I immediately think of an interracial gay butt orgy. Most likely because I am usually participating in one.