Do gay men stigmatise each other to compensate for the feeling of being stigmatised by people in the mainstream hetro community

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    Apr 17, 2014 9:03 PM GMT
    Gay men are far more likely to have a mental health issue or self medicate with illicit substances and while many RJ members have physically healthy lifestyles we all know people who are struggling more than they should due to feeling ostracised and segregated by our own leaving guys with no where to go and having to go along with the culture
  • C_Dezi

    Posts: 134

    Apr 18, 2014 1:06 PM GMT
    which came first, the chickkin or the egg? stop self-ostracizing gay people from the rest of humanity, trust me, there are just as many fucked up people in every social circle as there are in yours
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    Apr 18, 2014 1:18 PM GMT
    I came out late..29 in a very tolerant city NYC and at this point the gays practically rule the roost here.Even our First lady is a self proclaimed lesbian lol.So I never felt stigmatized after I came out.Then again I am not running down the street with a feather boa.Ry icon_smile.gif
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    Apr 18, 2014 1:42 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said Gay men are far more likely to have a mental health issue or self medicate with illicit substances and while many RJ members have physically healthy lifestyles we all know people who are struggling more than they should due to feeling ostracised and segregated by our own leaving guys with no where to go and having to go along with the culture

    The wonder of the Internet is that we can be chatting like this across whole continents. The challenge in comparing notes is that gay cultural experiences vary in all these places. You're in Australia, me in the US, others in Canada, the UK, Continental Europe, the Middle East, Africa, etc. And there are differences within those regions, as well.

    I guess my own experience has been very fortunate. When I lived in places that weren't particularly gay friendly, the gay community became my friend. We all reached out to each other, like survivors in a life raft surrounded by rough seas. It may be in our nature to bitch among ourselves, but to an often hostile outside world we more typically present a united front, at least to my experience.

    In fact, it was the unaccustomed gay community support I received, compared to the mostly indifferent straight community, that made me especially grateful to be gay. Not just the parties and sex, but that I had real friends, like I never had before.

    The closest thing previously was the camaraderie from my Army days, and the spirit of helpfulness, the idea of leaving no one behind, nor even letting anyone fall behind. You all finished together.

    Are there cliques & segregation? Sure, we even had that in the Army, that's universal human nature. Though when the pressure was on we all became a team, and I've seen that with gays, too.

    One of the questions the US Veterans Administration (VA) routinely asks us severely disabled veterans is whether we have a personal support structure in our lives. "Yes", I smile, "Very much so." I truly do, and it's my gay community. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Apr 18, 2014 1:51 PM GMT
    No.

    /thread
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    Apr 20, 2014 1:43 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said Gay men are far more likely to have a mental health issue or self medicate with illicit substances and while many RJ members have physically healthy lifestyles we all know people who are struggling more than they should due to feeling ostracised and segregated by our own leaving guys with no where to go and having to go along with the culture



    You'll have to explain to me what you mean by 'the culture'.

    -intrigued
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    Apr 25, 2014 2:11 PM GMT
    Yes, gay men are shallow assholes.
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    Apr 25, 2014 2:42 PM GMT
    Xavier92 saidYes, gay men are shallow assholes.

    I'm sorry that's been your experience. It's not been mine, in the 5 US States I've lived since coming out (Washington, North Dakota, Minnesota, Texas, Florida). The gay community has been friendly & supportive when I needed it, and I try to reciprocate when I can.

    Perhaps you're seeing more of an age demographic, rather than an issue of sexual orientation. Gay men and lesbian women, the LGBT community, are the biggest comfort & safety net I've ever known in my life.

    And as for personal relationships, I think I know how to navigate that minefield. Nothing much worse than straight guys encounter.
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    Apr 25, 2014 2:46 PM GMT
    Yes.
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    Apr 25, 2014 2:49 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    Xavier92 saidYes, gay men are shallow assholes.

    I'm sorry that's been your experience. It's not been mine, in the 5 US States I've lived since coming out (Washington, North Dakota, Minnesota, Texas, Florida). The gay community has been friendly & supportive when I needed it, and I try to reciprocate when I can.

    Perhaps you're seeing more of an age demographic, rather than an issue of sexual orientation. The gay men and lesbian women, the LGBT community, are the biggest comfort & safety net I've ever known in my life.

    And as for personal relationships, I think I know how to navigate that minefield. Nothing much worse than straight guys encounter.


    There's too much Ingroup elitism. There's the flamboyant stereotypical group and there's the "post-gay" macho group. If you don't behave like them or like what they like, they have no interest in being your friends. Sadly, we don't all like to classify ourselves as any of those 2. In my case, I've never fit in the straight world, in the gay world or any "world" in general. People are just not interested in making friends. Gay men are even worse.
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    Apr 25, 2014 3:07 PM GMT
    Xavier92 said
    Art_Deco said
    Xavier92 saidYes, gay men are shallow assholes.

    I'm sorry that's been your experience. It's not been mine, in the 5 US States I've lived since coming out (Washington, North Dakota, Minnesota, Texas, Florida). The gay community has been friendly & supportive when I needed it, and I try to reciprocate when I can.

    Perhaps you're seeing more of an age demographic, rather than an issue of sexual orientation. The gay men and lesbian women, the LGBT community, are the biggest comfort & safety net I've ever known in my life.

    And as for personal relationships, I think I know how to navigate that minefield. Nothing much worse than straight guys encounter.


    There's too much Ingroup elitism. There's the flamboyant stereotypical group and there's the "post-gay" macho group. If you don't behave like them or like what they like, they have no interest in being your friends. Sadly, we don't all like to classify ourselves as any of those 2. In my case, I've never fit in the straight world, in the gay world or any "world" in general. People are just not interested in making friends. Gay men are even worse.


    Xavier, a lot of your posts repel, so this may be a contributing factor in why you think as you do in your last line.
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    Apr 25, 2014 3:25 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Xavier92 said
    Art_Deco said
    Xavier92 saidYes, gay men are shallow assholes.

    I'm sorry that's been your experience. It's not been mine, in the 5 US States I've lived since coming out (Washington, North Dakota, Minnesota, Texas, Florida). The gay community has been friendly & supportive when I needed it, and I try to reciprocate when I can.

    Perhaps you're seeing more of an age demographic, rather than an issue of sexual orientation. The gay men and lesbian women, the LGBT community, are the biggest comfort & safety net I've ever known in my life.

    And as for personal relationships, I think I know how to navigate that minefield. Nothing much worse than straight guys encounter.


    There's too much Ingroup elitism. There's the flamboyant stereotypical group and there's the "post-gay" macho group. If you don't behave like them or like what they like, they have no interest in being your friends. Sadly, we don't all like to classify ourselves as any of those 2. In my case, I've never fit in the straight world, in the gay world or any "world" in general. People are just not interested in making friends. Gay men are even worse.


    Xavier, a lot of your posts repel, so this may be a contributing factor in why you think as you do in your last line.


    It repels those that hate the truth.
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    Apr 27, 2014 4:56 AM GMT
    Xavier92 has a point about gay elitism and very mean groups of gay guys acting like they're royalty to a certain extent. I know there's straight people like that too though (see mean girl's).
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    Apr 27, 2014 10:04 PM GMT
    I want to say that there are a few things going on within your statement that I can relate but the final thought is this.

    You cannot control your early infancy, You cannot control where you are born, You cannot control your parents.

    Now, you are not at the mercy of those very small events in your life that you which you have no control over it.

    It is you, who can change how the events unfolds in your eyes.

    If you believe you are poor and cannot get out and you are trapped in this deserted island for which you cannot change the course of your life... That is exactly how it will occur.

    Nobody influences your decisions unless you allow that to happen.

    Is all on your terms. You only carry the responsibility on how your life will turn out.

    In the myst of this foggy situation... COUNT your blessings, count the horrible clothes you might have, the horrible house you are in, the horrible neighbors you have, the tiny dick you might have, the horrible..the horrible.. did i said horrible?

    Only then, you might get a glimpse of the areas you want to change and how you will do it.
  • gymlocker

    Posts: 159

    Apr 28, 2014 7:00 AM GMT
    Regardless of why gay men stigmatize each other, they should stop, but they won't.

    People stigmatize other people out of fear.

    How many times have you heard a gay man use the term "old troll" to refer to someone 10 years or more their senior? It's a fear of getting old and their own mortality.

    How many times have you heard a gay man say "he's so gay even the gay guys want to beat him up?" or "when he opens his mouth a purse falls out," or refer to previously married guys as "breeders"?

    Gay men are particularly vicious towards each other. It's a competitive environment, always having to be "in shape", "desirable", always searching for the next conquest because so many are incapable of serious relationships. Some people view competition as an opportunity to tear down the other guy rather than make yourself better. They are the weak ones, the insecure, and self-loathers. My experience has been that there are a lot more of those in the gay community than in the straight community, if you can even refer to gay men as having a "community".

    Maybe we used to have to band together out of fear, but now we attack ourselves. Women can be "mean girls". But at the end of the day, I've heard guys go after other guys in far harsher and meaner ways than I've seen women do it.

    When the only tool you have is a hammer, every problem looks like a nail.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 28, 2014 8:46 PM GMT
    Do gay men stigmatize each other to compensate for the feeling of being stigmatized by people in the mainstream hetro community?

    NO. It's simply because some are just catty queens. No over analyzed psycho-babble required.
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    Apr 28, 2014 9:07 PM GMT
    This is quite possibly some of the most disturbing content on RJ since stuart's last round vids...

    icon_eek.gificon_eek.gificon_eek.gif
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    May 28, 2014 6:59 PM GMT
    owl_bundy saidto me, i think it's funny when i see gay men ready to attack gay guys over whatever as a means to feel better about themselves BUT they never pull the same shit towards straight guys who do the same things that they're ready to jump at the gay guy for. EVER. i guess it's projecting one's self because they see themselves as being weak for being gay so they feel that every gay man is weak like them. they'll be all ready to kiss the straight guy's ass like "please let me in your circle. i want to be down with you." all striving to be like them and whatever. all this straight worshiping. they're ashamed to be gay and they try to front like they're not BUT they are. just because you came out the closet to your family, your friends and etc doesn't mean that you're proud to be gay or not ashamed of being gay. that book "the velvet rage" really sums up the bullshit that's going on.

    the strong gay guy is the guy who pretty much doesn't have to shit on his gay bros or constantly prove that he's worthy of love. he knows he is. he doesn't live his life to get approval from others. there's way too many gay guys that are like that. it's like they need other people's validation to make them whole.



    I agree with most of what you said. The Velvet Rage is such a great book. I wish every gay person would read it
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    Sep 14, 2014 6:09 PM GMT
    I have to confess that I have rarely felt stigmatised in my life and fit in with most social situations. That doesn't reduce my disgust for how the gay community treats many of it's own especially those who aren't conforming to accepted stereotype behaviours. I get that some communities can be supportive however that is more often occurring throughout self isolation in gay ghettos which is not freedom or support in a true sense, but I instead a coping mechanism which is no more or less valid than many others
  • TealSock

    Posts: 30

    Sep 15, 2014 3:26 AM GMT
    I don't know if it's because they feel bad themselves, or if it's because they feel they are perpetuating negative stereotypes?

    Either way the problem comes down to the way society views certain personality traits. Feminine traits are still seen as weak and inferior. Despite all the progress with womens rights...etc.

    A typical male trait is still considered superior. Being logical, calculated, strong, versus emotional, intuitive, and weak.

    Gay men aren't different from any other human being that grew up on this planet, they have been subjected to the mind set that women are weak; and they are physically normally, and that their personality traits are weak too; which they aren't.

    This has caused gay men to see anything that shows them as being feminen as weak; for at least some of them.

    This is also true in straight men, most straight men don't admit to their feelings as much...etc as women not because they don't want to, but because they've been taught not too.

    Not saying every guy is a potential sensitive hippie, but that they don't admit to things as much as they would because of they way we are conditioned to act.

    Guys still naturally are more aggressive...etc, but I know that more straight guys would do girly things if it was acceptable. Same with gay guys.

    And this subject or thread wouldn't even exist.
  • TealSock

    Posts: 30

    Sep 15, 2014 3:30 AM GMT
    ^in case anyone lost me up there, the stigma we face is basically the stigma that woman's traits are inferior to mens, and that men should be doing what men do.

    Enjoying penis is a mainly feminine trait. So gay men automatically get all their stereotypes thrown on, and someof them hold true for gay guys.

    But the real problem is the fact that there is a stigma with doing womanly things. I'm not into girly things, but if the world didn't give a shit or didn't consider traits typical of men superior we wouldn't have this problem. It would be an indirect solution.
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    Sep 18, 2014 8:20 PM GMT
    Gay men are more susceptible to being sheeples. They can easily be caught up in the marketing, the commercialism, the propaganda, the spin, and the elitist agenda.

    Pimp, pander and peddle to people for the position, power and money. Mislead and distort the truth and the message to people for your own benefit.

    Escape from reality and deny what is going on around you. Think about it. Don't blame the messenger.

    Do I feel like I am stigmatized. You betcha. Am I looking for approval or seeking icon_lol.gifacceptance from a motley group of people. I do not think so.
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    Sep 23, 2014 4:11 PM GMT
    Everyone stigmatises everyone at each others perceived weaknesses, its odd that as the human race we have created a society when in all reality our issues are our natural instincts as humans that are non compatible with being a society, so we are dog eat dog creatures and we have tried to become non dog eat dog.
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    Sep 23, 2014 4:36 PM GMT
    Sydneyrugbyjock73 said Gay men are far more likely to have a mental health issue or self medicate with illicit substances and while many RJ members have physically healthy lifestyles we all know people who are struggling more than they should due to feeling ostracised and segregated by our own leaving guys with no where to go and having to go along with the culture


    I would tend to agree with this. I'm often disheartened by the level of alcohol consumption among gay men.