The Definitive Guide To What Bundy's Biggest Supporters Are Saying Now

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    Apr 24, 2014 7:21 PM GMT
    Spoiler: They're RUNNING AWAY FAST!

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/what-cliven-bundy-supporters-are-saying-after-race-comments

    U.S. Sen. Dean Heller (R-NV)

    What he said previously: Appearing alongside Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) on KSNV-TV, Heller praised Bundy and his supporters: “What Sen. Reid may call domestic terrorists, I call patriots."

    What he's saying now: A spokesman for Heller told the New York Times that the senator "completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy’s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.”
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    Apr 24, 2014 8:29 PM GMT
    I'm shocked that these people are racists! said no one ever.
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    Apr 25, 2014 7:30 AM GMT
    CarolinaMan saidSpoiler: They're RUNNING AWAY FAST!

    http://talkingpointsmemo.com/muckraker/what-cliven-bundy-supporters-are-saying-after-race-comments

    U.S. Sen. Dean Heller (R-NV)

    What he said previously: Appearing alongside Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (D-NV) on KSNV-TV, Heller praised Bundy and his supporters: “What Sen. Reid may call domestic terrorists, I call patriots."

    What he's saying now: A spokesman for Heller told the New York Times that the senator "completely disagrees with Mr. Bundy’s appalling and racist statements, and condemns them in the most strenuous way.”



    Do you use your head for anything more than holding up your hair? This is as ridiculous as everything else you've already posted on this subject.

    So, you're saying that people can't agree that the BLM and Federal government were heavy handed in the way they handled this, people can't agree that this is a case of overreach by a bloated big government, people can't agree that the Federal Government should honor the promises made to the states to return the public lands to the jurisdiction of the state and at the same time disagree with Cliven Bundy's statement?

    So in you're ridiculous little world if I (or any perceived conservative) agree with anyone on anything I/they have to agree with them on everything? Do you hold yourself and your like minded friends to the same standard?

    For some people this was about the heavy handed handling of this issue by increasingly militarized bureaucracies.
    For others this was about government overreach by an increasingly distant and out of touch and increasingly totalitarian government.
    For others this was about the right of the states to determine how the public lands inside their state are used and the Federal Government's promise to return public lands to the states.
    For some of us who deal with similar situations and actually have grazing, water and mineral rights, BLM and Forest Service leases and BLM and Forest Service grazing permits it's about all of the above and more.

    Could we have chosen a better person to be the face of these issues in the west? Absolutely!

    Could we have chosen someone more articulate? Sure we could, but then Barack "ugh, um, ugh, um" Obama isn't exactly so articulate and such a great public speaker without a teleprompter and Joe "the first thing Roosevelt did when the stock market crashed was to go on TV" Biden isn't much better and lets not forget Hillary "What Difference does it make" Clinton or the equally ignorant Harry" he doesn't have a Negro dialect unless he wants to" Reid.

    The reality is, in the west, we have been fighting these issues for years. There have been many ranchers, farmers, and land owners abused by the BLM, Forest Service, EPA and other Federal agencies and there have been many other people who would have been a better choice for the face of this fight for those of us dealing with these issues in very real ways. The sad fact is this case came at the right time to get plenty of attention for what many of us face daily and have faced for years over these issues.

    So for people like yourself sitting in a state where the Federal Government controls only 2.9% of the land inside the state and have never had to deal with any of these issues, why do you think you have any experience or understanding of this issue and why it struck a cord with those of us living in the west where the Federal Government controls more than 50% of the land in our states? Where our deeded land can be taken away from us just for the sake of "openness"? Where we can be fined millions of dollars for legally building a farm pond on our land with propper permits from the state? Where we can be fined millions for building on land we bought and the EPA claims is a wetland, and yet there is no water on the land? Where our land can be tied up because of an endangered frog that only lives in a handfull of ponds that are not even located in our state?

    Because Cliven Bundy made some racial remarks, those of us who support the causes and issues he has suddenly become the face of, we, in your absurd world, aren't allowed to believe in the issues we face without disagreeing with his remarks? I wonder do you impose that same standard on yourself?

    Because of Cliven Bundy's remarks,Tommy Henderson, Kenni Patton, Andy Johnson, Chantell and Mike Sackett, Andy and Ceil Barrie, Edward Poitevent and Raymond Yowell or any of the other ranchers or land owners in the west who happen to have issues over private and public lands are all racists?

    For most of us this wasn't about Cliven Bundy, yet people like you and the rest of the uninformed left have tried to make it about Cliven Bundy.








  • Webster666

    Posts: 9217

    Apr 25, 2014 8:50 AM GMT
    Apparently, the Teabaggers, the Republicans, and all of Faux News are fine with BEING racist. But, most of them know that they can't come out and SAY that they're racist.
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    Apr 25, 2014 9:32 AM GMT
    shybuffguy said

    Do you use your head for anything more than holding up your hair? This is as ridiculous as everything else you've already posted on this subject.

    So, you're saying that people can't agree that the BLM and Federal government were heavy handed in the way they handled this, people can't agree that this is a case of overreach by a bloated big government, people can't agree that the Federal Government should honor the promises made to the states to return the public lands to the jurisdiction of the state and at the same time disagree with Cliven Bundy's statement?

    So in you're ridiculous little world if I (or any perceived conservative) agree with anyone on anything I/they have to agree with them on everything? Do you hold yourself and your like minded friends to the same standard?

    For some people this was about the heavy handed handling of this issue by increasingly militarized bureaucracies.
    For others this was about government overreach by an increasingly distant and out of touch and increasingly totalitarian government.
    For others this was about the right of the states to determine how the public lands inside their state are used and the Federal Government's promise to return public lands to the states.
    For some of us who deal with similar situations and actually have grazing, water and mineral rights, BLM and Forest Service leases and BLM and Forest Service grazing permits it's about all of the above and more.

    Could we have chosen a better person to be the face of these issues in the west? Absolutely!

    Could we have chosen someone more articulate? Sure we could, but then Barack "ugh, um, ugh, um" Obama isn't exactly so articulate and such a great public speaker without a teleprompter and Joe "the first thing Roosevelt did when the stock market crashed was to go on TV" Biden isn't much better and lets not forget Hillary "What Difference does it make" Clinton or the equally ignorant Harry" he doesn't have a Negro dialect unless he wants to" Reid.

    The reality is, in the west, we have been fighting these issues for years. There have been many ranchers, farmers, and land owners abused by the BLM, Forest Service, EPA and other Federal agencies and there have been many other people who would have been a better choice for the face of this fight for those of us dealing with these issues in very real ways. The sad fact is this case came at the right time to get plenty of attention for what many of us face daily and have faced for years over these issues.

    So for people like yourself sitting in a state where the Federal Government controls only 2.9% of the land inside the state and have never had to deal with any of these issues, why do you think you have any experience or understanding of this issue and why it struck a cord with those of us living in the west where the Federal Government controls more than 50% of the land in our states? Where our deeded land can be taken away from us just for the sake of "openness"? Where we can be fined millions of dollars for legally building a farm pond on our land with propper permits from the state? Where we can be fined millions for building on land we bought and the EPA claims is a wetland, and yet there is no water on the land? Where our land can be tied up because of an endangered frog that only lives in a handfull of ponds that are not even located in our state?

    Because Cliven Bundy made some racial remarks, those of us who support the causes and issues he has suddenly become the face of, we, in your absurd world, aren't allowed to believe in the issues we face without disagreeing with his remarks? I wonder do you impose that same standard on yourself?

    Because of Cliven Bundy's remarks,Tommy Henderson, Kenni Patton, Andy Johnson, Chantell and Mike Sackett, Andy and Ceil Barrie, Edward Poitevent and Raymond Yowell or any of the other ranchers or land owners in the west who happen to have issues over private and public lands are all racists?

    For most of us this wasn't about Cliven Bundy, yet people like you and the rest of the uninformed left have tried to make it about Cliven Bundy.


    Quite a rantathon.
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    Apr 25, 2014 1:28 PM GMT
    On April 12, shybuffguy had this to say:

    "Before I start,let me make a disclaimer: My two older sons along with representatives from other Utah ranch families are at the Bundy ranch and I am a rancher.

    Now, to all of you who are calling the Bundy's "Deadbeats", let me just say you have no clue what you are talking about or the situation that those of us who are ranchers deal with everyday. We work our asses off day in and day out to produce the food the rest of you eat and the thanks we get is that we are met with endless rules and regulations driven by people (like the batshit crazy environmentalist, the animal rights lobby and just nutbags in general and the even more ridiculous people in the state capitols and Washington who listen to the nutters!) who have no idea of what we actually do.

    Mad Cowboy, what it looks like you do is run your mouth off before you know your issues.

    You need to pay better attention to the heroes, like Bundy, you choose.
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    Apr 25, 2014 1:53 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    Could we have chosen a better person to be the face of these issues in the west? Absolutely!

    Because Cliven Bundy made some racial remarks, those of us who support the causes and issues he has suddenly become the face of, we, in your absurd world, aren't allowed to believe in the issues we face without disagreeing with his remarks? I wonder do you impose that same standard on yourself?

    You touch on the very point, but then dismiss it as unimportant. Bundy's racism, radicalism and unconstitutional claims are VERY important to this situation. And therefore he invalidates the very arguments you're trying to make, the goals you're trying to achieve. You really need a better poster child for your campaign, because he only appeals to those with his distorted, illegal view of government, not the rest of the US.

    Bundy says the Federal government doesn't exist, and has no authority over him. That's a fundamental part of his protest. Is that what you believe yourself? He shows himself to be a racist, with a mid-19th-Century US view of Blacks (or "Negroes" as he says). How does one support a guy like that?

    You argue improper actions by BLM and other Federal agencies are to blame, which may have merit. But Bundy argues that nobody has the authority to tell him to do anything he doesn't want to do. Those are 2 very different concepts. So that when you align yourself with someone as radically self-centered as Bundy your own credibility & personal agenda suffer.
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    Apr 25, 2014 3:25 PM GMT
    CarolinaMan saidOn April 12, shybuffguy had this to say:

    "Before I start,let me make a disclaimer: My two older sons along with representatives from other Utah ranch families are at the Bundy ranch and I am a rancher.

    Now, to all of you who are calling the Bundy's "Deadbeats", let me just say you have no clue what you are talking about or the situation that those of us who are ranchers deal with everyday. We work our asses off day in and day out to produce the food the rest of you eat and the thanks we get is that we are met with endless rules and regulations driven by people (like the batshit crazy environmentalist, the animal rights lobby and just nutbags in general and the even more ridiculous people in the state capitols and Washington who listen to the nutters!) who have no idea of what we actually do.

    Mad Cowboy, what it looks like you do is run your mouth off before you know your issues.

    You need to pay better attention to the heroes, like Bundy, you choose.


    Actually, unlike you , I don't run my "mouth off before you know your issue". I live these issues everyday as a part of my livelihood.

    Yes my sons and other ranch families went to Nevada in support of the issues and not necessarily in support of Cliven Bundy.

    I've never made Cliven Bundy my or my sons hero. I simply understand the issues around this situation better than you do.

    However I did notice , as usual you diverted attention away from what I said to make it about something else. maybe you could explain if you hold yourself or your like minded friends to he same standards you hold others too?

    I thought not.

    You're 30 years old, don't you think it's time you grew up?
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    Apr 25, 2014 4:11 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    shybuffguy said
    Could we have chosen a better person to be the face of these issues in the west? Absolutely!

    Because Cliven Bundy made some racial remarks, those of us who support the causes and issues he has suddenly become the face of, we, in your absurd world, aren't allowed to believe in the issues we face without disagreeing with his remarks? I wonder do you impose that same standard on yourself?

    You touch on the very point, but then dismiss it as unimportant. Bundy's racism, radicalism and unconstitutional claims are VERY important to this situation. And therefore he invalidates the very arguments you're trying to make, the goals you're trying to achieve. You really need a better poster child for your campaign, because he only appeals to those with his distorted, illegal view of government, not the rest of the US.

    First of all, as I said for many of us this was never about Cliven Bundy.
    Again,, as I said, if we were given the choice of who became the face of the issues surrounding public an private land in the west, no Cliven Bundy would not have been our first choice. Again, as I said he was the one that go the attention.
    By your standards, because Bull Connor was,a Democrat and a racist segregationist his views invalidate everything achieved by Democrats and anything Democrats will achieve. Interesting that's the same viewpoint of the OP .


    Bundy says the Federal government doesn't exist, and has no authority over him. That's a fundamental part of his protest. Is that what you believe yourself? He shows himself to be a racist, with a mid-19th-Century US view of Blacks (or "Negroes" as he says). How does one support a guy like that?

    As I said, Cliven Bundy is not the most well spoken person out there.
    When pressed on the matter he did say he respects the Federal Government within the confines of the constitution.
    Maybe you can explain to me why civil disobedience is ok for people like you when it comes from the occupied wall street crowd, gay activists or anyone who you agree with (I intentional left out the civil rights movement of the 60s because Democrats were against civil rights for African Americans).
    Again you try to make this about Cliven Bundy and not the issues surrounding public and private lands here in the west.
    How do you support The Senate Majority Leader who said of the President "he doesn't have a Negro dialect unless he wants to"? Does it make you a racist because you agree with him on certain issues, or does that only work when you impose that standard on people who disagree with you? Does it make you a racist because you're a Democrat and Democrats stood in the way of civil rights for African Americans for years, or do you reserve your double standard for yourself?


    You argue improper actions by BLM and other Federal agencies are to blame, which may have merit. But Bundy argues that nobody has the authority to tell him to do anything he doesn't want to do. Those are 2 very different concepts. So that when you align yourself with someone as radically self-centered as Bundy your own credibility & personal agenda suffer.


    Actually, you are not telling the truth here. Bundy never said "nobody has the authority to tell him what to do", he has always argued that the land belongs to the state and he recognizes the state of Nevada over the public lands inside the state, in fact he tried to pay fees to the state of Nevada and Clark County.
    Yes as you lay it out, they are two very different concepts, and I'm not sure if you deliberately misrepresented the issues or if your misrepresentation was out of ignorance of the very issues you are speaking about.
    As I've said, for those of us who deal with these issues everyday, this was never about Cliven Bundy, as you and the left are trying to make it.
    Again as I pointed out because Cliven Bundy made some inappropriate comments, it doesn't undermine the credibility of the issues and the problems we face here in the west with anyone other than people like you who impose a double standard on everyone who they don't agree with.
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    Apr 25, 2014 4:27 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    shybuffguy said
    Could we have chosen a better person to be the face of these issues in the west? Absolutely!

    Because Cliven Bundy made some racial remarks, those of us who support the causes and issues he has suddenly become the face of, we, in your absurd world, aren't allowed to believe in the issues we face without disagreeing with his remarks? I wonder do you impose that same standard on yourself?

    You touch on the very point, but then dismiss it as unimportant. Bundy's racism, radicalism and unconstitutional claims are VERY important to this situation. And therefore he invalidates the very arguments you're trying to make, the goals you're trying to achieve. You really need a better poster child for your campaign, because he only appeals to those with his distorted, illegal view of government, not the rest of the US.

    Bundy says the Federal government doesn't exist, and has no authority over him. That's a fundamental part of his protest. Is that what you believe yourself? He shows himself to be a racist, with a mid-19th-Century US view of Blacks (or "Negroes" as he says). How does one support a guy like that?

    You argue improper actions by BLM and other Federal agencies are to blame, which may have merit. But Bundy argues that nobody has the authority to tell him to do anything he doesn't want to do. Those are 2 very different concepts. So that when you align yourself with someone as radically self-centered as Bundy your own credibility & personal agenda suffer.




    I kind of wasted my time answering you.

    How does one such as your self feel comfortable enough to lecture someone else about racism after your past remarks in these forums about Muslims?

    Because you attempt to apologize for your remarks, you absolved from any responsibility for them?

    Doesn't it undermine any point you make on any issue, since you have made such remarks?

    Does your personal agenda suffer because you have made such remarks?

    How does one ever come back after such remarks? How is one ever taken seriously again?

    Is it because you have a double standard you reserve for yourself and trhose who agree with you?
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    Apr 25, 2014 4:29 PM GMT

    shybuffguy, come on, you're not a social service or a charity:

    ' We work our asses off day in and day out to produce the food the rest of you eat and the thanks we get is that we are met with endless rules and regulations driven by people (like the batshit crazy environmentalist, the animal rights lobby and just nutbags in general and the even more ridiculous people in the state capitols and Washington who listen to the nutters!) who have no idea of what we actually do.'

    You're in it for the money, honey.
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    Apr 25, 2014 4:58 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    shybuffguy, come on, you're not a social service or a charity:

    ' We work our asses off day in and day out to produce the food the rest of you eat and the thanks we get is that we are met with endless rules and regulations driven by people (like the batshit crazy environmentalist, the animal rights lobby and just nutbags in general and the even more ridiculous people in the state capitols and Washington who listen to the nutters!) who have no idea of what we actually do.'

    You're in it for the money, honey.




    Never refer to me as honey,I'm not your child ( and I thank god for that each day), and I would never bother to look twice at you!


    I never said I was a social service or a charity.
    Why don't you try spending all day in the saddle in 100 degree heat only to spend the night protecting your stock from the wolves that batshit crazy people demand be allowed to spread unchecked across the west? Have you ever spent all day out in a 30 below blizzard tending your stock only to spend all night delivering a lamb, a calf or a foal. When was the last time you spent weeks stringing fence on property deeded to you only to have it cut by BLM officers who want to use your private property to access BLM land? When was the last time you spent a sleepless night watching a storm destroy your crops or trying to save what is left of them so you can pay the insane property taxes levied on your property?

    My point was that for the amount of work hours my four sons and I put in, each of us make less than the minimum wage that people like you are always screaming about and the major part of the reason is because people like you who think you know it all push policy that you have no understanding of and their effects on the people you seek to regulate..

    In it for the money? I have more tied up in my land and equipment than I make.

    Didn't you post the same thing in another thread?

    BTW, since you know all about it and have lived through it maybe you can school me about DDT.

    It must be a burden to know all there is to know about everything as you do!

    If you don't understand the issue, why not refrain from posting.
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    Apr 25, 2014 5:04 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    If you don't understand the issue, why not refrain from posting.

    Maybe you should, because the issue is simpler than you make it.
    You take up arms against the United States of America, you're a traitor. Period. I assume your sons were armed.
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    Apr 25, 2014 9:08 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said, "I never said I was a social service or a charity."

    Then stop talking like you are. I worked with people like you, and had to deal with people like you outside of work.
    The roofers we hired for our last house went on and on just like you. There was no money in it. They made less than minimum wage, etc etc etc. Yet somehow they could afford all kinds of things. then for 4 days of work (2 men), and materials, they charged us 8 thousand dollars. icon_lol.gif




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    Apr 25, 2014 9:29 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    I kind of wasted my time answering you.

    How does one such as your self feel comfortable enough to lecture someone else about racism after your past remarks in these forums about Muslims?

    Because you attempt to apologize for your remarks, you absolved from any responsibility for them?

    Doesn't it undermine any point you make on any issue, since you have made such remarks?

    Does your personal agenda suffer because you have made such remarks?

    How does one ever come back after such remarks? How is one ever taken seriously again?

    Is it because you have a double standard you reserve for yourself and trhose who agree with you?

    There's only one guy on this site who obsesses about my past Muslim comments, and would remember them from years ago. Which, BTW, have nothing to do with racism. Is Islam a race? And did you miss the posts mentioning that one of my best friends is a Muslim? That I had Easter Sunday dinner with him last week?

    And what do Muslims have to do with rancher Bundy? Other than you taking a gratuitous swipe at me?

    But thanks, now we know who you really are.
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    Apr 25, 2014 9:41 PM GMT


    ...and shybuffguy, this is where I stand, with the Nevada Cattlemen's Association. Please read it ALL.

    'However, in accordance with the rule of law, we must use the system set forth in our Constitution to change those laws and regulations. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not condone actions that are outside the law in which citizens take the law into their own hands.

    Nevada Cattlemen's Association (NCA) works hard to change regulations detrimental to the sound management of public lands in a lawful manner and supports the concept of multiple uses on federally managed lands and encourages members of the livestock industry to abide by regulations governing federal lands.

    Furthermore, Nevada Cattlemen's Association supports effective range management through collaboration with resource management agencies and interested parties to achieve rangeland management goals for economically viable ranch operations and the conservation of wildlife species.

    With the above stated this case was reviewed by a federal judge and a decision was rendered to remove the cattle. Nevada Cattlemen's Association does not feel it is our place to interfere in the process of adjudication in this matter. Additionally, NCA believes the matter is between Mr. Bundy and the Federal Courts.

    We regret that this entire situation was not avoided through more local government involvement and better implementation of federal regulations, laws, and court decisions. While we cannot advocate operating outside the law to solve problems, we also sympathize with Mr. Bundy's dilemma. With good faith negotiations from both sides, we believe a result can be achieved which recognizes the balance that must be struck between private property rights and resource sustainability.'
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    Apr 25, 2014 9:51 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said

    And what do Muslims have to do with rancher Bundy? Other than you taking a gratuitous swipe at me?

    But thanks, now we know who you really are.


    Lol, I thought the long rambling diatribe rather gave him away.
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    Apr 25, 2014 10:04 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    Art_Deco said

    And what do Muslims have to do with rancher Bundy? Other than you taking a gratuitous swipe at me?

    But thanks, now we know who you really are.

    Lol, I thought the long rambling diatribe rather gave him away.

    I just got an email from an RJ member who joined yesterday, asking me to identify which "conservaposse" sock I think shybuffguy really is.

    I mean, could you be more obvious? LMAO!!! The sock factory keeps turning them out...
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    Apr 25, 2014 10:21 PM GMT
    Oh puhleeze. shybuffguy is Jockbod48. He loves doing these complex personas and he's got a history here of the very same bullshit. Remember his gastroenterologist with all his pseudo healthcare opinions?