AIDS Denialism

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    Jan 01, 2009 2:51 PM GMT
    AIDS denialism has been grabbing my attention lately, and I was surprised to find no discussion of it on RJ. On the Underground Wellness message board, there's a young guy (mid 20s) who wants to put up a YouTube video of himself getting injected with HIV blood in his quest to prove HIV doesn't cause AIDS (his website: http://www.positivelyfalse.com/), and I recently saw on Joe. My. God. that AIDS denialist Christine Maggiore had died. I've only known one poz AIDS denialist, and he died of AIDS.

    Personally, when it comes to health and nutrition, I tend to be open-minded to alternative, non-mainstream ideas because a lot of mainstream ideas about health and nutrition are complete bullshit. But, it strikes me that the connection between HIV and AIDS is pretty well established.
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    Jan 01, 2009 3:01 PM GMT
    funny thing the supporters of the denial of AIDS keep dying from the affects of AIDS!

    Didnt one of the main supporter a woman just die this week? Also, David Pasquerilla died a few years back.
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    Jan 01, 2009 4:33 PM GMT
    sfinboston saidDidnt one of the main supporter a woman just die this week?


    Yes, it was the above mentioned Christine Maggiore.

    Here are more AIDS denialists who have died.
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    Jan 04, 2009 4:03 AM GMT
    All those guys who're like "I have HIV, why won't you sleep with me?" have been up to a little "SEE! SEE! SEE!" nonsense, huh?
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    Jan 04, 2009 4:07 AM GMT
    I have a friend who denies the link. Lol, while he's ranted at my other friends about it he stopped himself from discussing it with me. I don't really...understand WHAT'S being denied here though - that the virus itself is a hoax or that the link is?
    I mean, if its the virus than the question I'd have to ask first would be what's caused all these people to die in very similar fashions?
    If it's the link than...what exactly IS AIDS? What IS the cause?

    ...I just don't get it. So I mostly dismiss people when they DO try and deny it. *shrugs* I have faith in science.
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    Jan 04, 2009 4:11 AM GMT
    paradox said...But, it strikes me that the connection between HIV and AIDS is pretty well established.


    Pretty well established? It's a fact and undeniable. What craziness is this? Nut jobs like this should be charged with reckless endangerment, for spreading false information that can lead others to make fatal mistakes.

    I wonder if they're part of some straight conspiracy to wipe us out?
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    Jan 04, 2009 4:17 AM GMT
    wow I didn't know that people denied something like this to the point of death. That's just...... I don't know... the English Language doesn't have a word for how dumb that is....
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    Jan 05, 2009 2:19 AM GMT
    paradox said
    sfinboston saidDidnt one of the main supporter a woman just die this week?


    Yes, it was the above mentioned Christine Maggiore.

    Here are more AIDS denialists who have died.


    I know such people exist. Just like some people exist that deny the possibility of evolution because it disturbs their view of the world.

    HIV deniers are especially dangerous if they are practicing unsafe sex. I came across on Wikipedia a list of gay porn stars. One of them is HIV+ and has bareback sex. Why? He does not believe HIV leads to AIDS. Human irrationality both fascinates and upsets me at the same time.
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    Jan 14, 2009 10:49 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]



    HIV deniers are especially dangerous if they are practicing unsafe sex. I came across on Wikipedia a list of gay porn stars. One of them is HIV+ and has bareback sex. Why? He does not believe HIV leads to AIDS. Human irrationality both fascinates and upsets me at the same time.[/quote]

    Probably more dangerous when they are in charge of a country,
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2008/nov/27/south-africa-aids-mbeki

    The 1st few lines from the link
    "The Aids policies of former president Thabo Mbeki's government were directly responsible for the avoidable deaths of a third of a million people in South Africa, according to research from Harvard University.

    South Africa has one of the most severe HIV/Aids epidemics in the world. About 5.5 million people, or 18.8% of the adult population, have HIV, according to the UN. In 2005 there were 900 deaths a day."
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    Jan 14, 2009 10:59 PM GMT
    ......................
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    Jan 14, 2009 11:02 PM GMT
    SurrealLife said
    paradox said
    sfinboston saidDidnt one of the main supporter a woman just die this week?


    Yes, it was the above mentioned Christine Maggiore.

    Here are more AIDS denialists who have died.


    I know such people exist. Just like some people exist that deny the possibility of evolution because it disturbs their view of the world.

    HIV deniers are especially dangerous if they are practicing unsafe sex. I came across on Wikipedia a list of gay porn stars. One of them is HIV+ and has bareback sex. Why? He does not believe HIV leads to AIDS. Human irrationality both fascinates and upsets me at the same time.


    and gay porn star who does bareback films is a either already poz or b doesnt care about becoming poz
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    Jan 14, 2009 11:22 PM GMT
    tasty_oblivion saidwow I didn't know that people denied something like this to the point of death. That's just...... I don't know... the English Language doesn't have a word for how dumb that is....

    Ahmadinejadesqe.
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    Jan 14, 2009 11:22 PM GMT
    It's been talked about several times in the last few months here on Real Jock. Try searching on HIV in the upper right corner.

    Many folks are becoming increasingly irresponsible in the belief that AIDS / HIV is survivable because it doesn't kill as quickly as in yesteryear.

    In Dallas County, Texas, there is the highest HIV infection rate in all of Texas. One look at the ads on craigslist will explain why.

    Just two weeks ago, we (flex89, and I) sat and visited with the chairman (Steven Pounders) of the Dallas Area HIV campaign.

    So, soon, folks forget that HIV is a major illness, and if you catch it, you might not die as quickly as before, but, will remain sick, and ultimately die before your time because of it.

    The I,I,I,me,me,me, self-indulgence of folks needs to somehow become uncool. So far, it hasn't.

    I find the postings on craigslist a bit skanky.

    At some point, folks have to become responsible for their personal health, be it rec drugs, sexual activity, or over-eating.
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    Jan 14, 2009 11:42 PM GMT
    There is a perverse confounding factor, in some of the African cases of denial.

    In some places, there is lots of international aid available to treat people with HIV or AIDS, but none for all of the other things that are killing people. So quite often local administrators or individual doctors sort of "widen the definition" of AIDS, in order to get people into a hospital. I've seen figures as high as 20% in some areas. Then, if one blindly looks backwards at the statistics, sometimes weird things appear, such as people being cured of AIDS with antibiotics.
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    Jan 17, 2009 1:44 PM GMT
    On a related note, what's up with cuckoo science fiction writers?

    There's L. Ron Hubbard and then there's a guy I admired for his writings only to find out he probably wears a tin hat to sleep. James P. Hogan, one of the more famous pseudoscientists out there.

    Some of his delusional writings include an attack on 'Darwinism'

    And of course, the denial of AIDS. Citing how it is drugs that cause it, not a virus.

    In fact he seems determined to challenge every single scientific finding there is, from ozone depletion to global warming to the denial that the holocaust ever happened. icon_eek.gif

    http://jamesphogan.com/bb/

    It amazes me how far people believe their own theories to the exclusion of everything else. Crackpot science indeed. And in the case of AIDS, dangerous crackpot science.
  • NickoftheNort...

    Posts: 1416

    Jan 19, 2009 9:36 AM GMT
    BioMatty saidSo I mostly dismiss people when they DO try and deny it. *shrugs* I have faith in science.

    If you have to defend science on a regular basis, you may have use of one of these (t-shirts; the personal science assistant would cost extra):

    science_square_5.jpg

    stand_back_square_0.png
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    Jan 19, 2009 10:51 AM GMT
    Scary stuff...

    I found out a while back that one of my former uni lecturers in epidemiology is part of the http://www.theperthgroup.com/ - a collective of scientists mostly based in Perth, Western Australia who vehemently deny there is any causal relationship between HIV and AIDS. They are quite vocal, even internationally, publishing peer reviewed articles and participating in various international dialogues on the matter...

    They even testified in defense of a man during his trial for knowingly infecting several women with HIV. They IS dodgy...

    An excerpt from their website:


    HIV/AIDS experts have not proven:

    1. The existence of a unique, exogenously acquired retrovirus, HIV.
    2. The "HIV" antibody tests are specific for "HIV" infection.
    3. The HIV theory of AIDS, that is, that HIV causes acquired immune deficiency (destruction of T4 lymphocytes=AID) or that AID leads to the development of the clinical syndrome AIDS.
    4. The "HIV genome", (RNA or DNA) originates in a unique, exogenously acquired infectious retroviral particle.
    5. HIV/AIDS is infectious, either by blood, blood products or sexual intercourse.
    6. Mother to child transmission of a retrovirus HIV or its inhibition with AZT or nevirapine.

    The Perth group argue:

    1. The impossibility of haemophiliacs acquiring HIV following factor VIII infusions.
    2. That AIDS and all the phenomena inferred as "HIV" are induced by changes in cellular redox brought about by the oxidative nature of substances and exposures common to all the AIDS risk groups and to the cells used in the "culture" and "isolation" of "HIV".
    3. That AIDS will not spread outside the original risk groups.
    4. That the cessation of exposure to oxidants and/or use of anti-oxidants will improve the outcome of AIDS patients.
    5. That the pharmacological data prove AZT cannot kill "HIV" and AZT is toxic to all cells and may cause some cases of AIDS.



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