43 Minutes to "Execute" a Human Being: What is our definition of "cruel and unusual" punishment?

  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 2:32 AM GMT
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/04/29/oklahoma-execution-botched-inmate-still-dies-second-execution-delayed/?wpisrc=al_national

    Inmate dies of heart attack after botched "execution" attempt.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 2:38 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidI am still reeling from reading that he came back to life to say that he thought something was wrong.


    They wanted to take him to hospital to RESUSCITATE him....DURING the execution....so they could...."try again".

    Has our moral compass as a society... completely collapsed.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 2:44 AM GMT
    owl_bundy saidcrazy considering that it was supposed to be a double execution. the other murderer that got a stay of execution was a baby rapist and killer. the other guy was alive and died of a massive heart attack. read through the past articles and they said that they were going to resuscitate him since they stopped the execution BUT i guess not. wouldn't be surprised if this became another supreme court case since this was debated before about whether lethal injection was cruel and unusual punishment.


    It's not that lethal injection is being debated, it's that THESE SPECIFIC drugs are being debated. We got them from the European Union... who stopped exporting them to us because they knew we were using them for executions. So now you have idiots trying to "replicate" those drugs... and using real human beings to conduct those experiments on.
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    Apr 30, 2014 10:35 AM GMT
    I wonder if their victims and their families care about this.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Apr 30, 2014 10:42 AM GMT
    After he shoots and buries a teenage girl alive, I hope the next execution attempt takes another 43 minutes

    or else a few bullets in the head might be cheaper and more efficient
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 11:16 AM GMT
    (1) "A doctor started to administer the first drug, a sedative intended to knock the man out and forestall pain, at 6:23 p.m. Ten minutes later, the doctor announced that Mr. Lockett was unconscious, and he started to administer the next two drugs, a paralytic and one intended to make the heart stop.

    At that point, witnesses said, things began to go awry. Mr. Lockett’s body twitched, his foot shook and he mumbled, witnesses said.

    At 6:37 p.m., he tried to rise and exhaled loudly. At that point, prison officials pulled a curtain in front of the witnesses and the doctor discovered a “vein failure,” Mr. Patton said.

    Without effective sedation, the second two drugs are known to cause agonizing suffocation and pain."

    (2) "Faced with shortages, Oklahoma and other states have turned to compounding pharmacies — lightly regulated laboratories that mix up drugs to order. Opponents have raised questions about quality control, especially after the widely reported dying gasps of a convict in Ohio for more than 10 minutes, and an Oklahoma inmate’s utterance, “I feel my whole body burning,” after being injected with compounded drugs."

    And you think the families of those victims are, what, laughing and rubbing their hands with glee about this, do you???
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    Apr 30, 2014 1:18 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidAfter he shoots and buries a teenage girl alive, I hope the next execution attempt takes another 43 minutes


    Notwithstanding the rights or wrongs of capital punishment, how is effectively torturing someone to death (and in the name of the state) any more acceptable than what he did?
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 1:20 PM GMT
    Ex_Mil8 said
    tj85016 saidAfter he shoots and buries a teenage girl alive, I hope the next execution attempt takes another 43 minutes


    Notwithstanding the rights or wrongs of capital punishment, how is effectively torturing someone to death (and in the name of the state) any more acceptable than what he did?


    +1 I'm not debating the rights or wrongs of capital punishment, either. But this...?
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    Apr 30, 2014 1:55 PM GMT
    43 Minutes to "Execute" a Human Being: What is our definition of "cruel and unusual" punishment?

    Thanks to our Republican-dominated regressive US Supreme Court, you'll find that definition somewhere back in the Middle Ages. You won't find it in our US Constitution, which the Court stopped using as written years ago, except as a misquoted premise for predetermined ideological decisions.
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    Apr 30, 2014 2:13 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]WrestlerBoy ... Has our moral compass as a society... completely collapsed [/quote]


    yes it has
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 2:50 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said43 Minutes to "Execute" a Human Being: What is our definition of "cruel and unusual" punishment?

    Thanks to our Republican-dominated regressive US Supreme Court, you'll find that definition somewhere back in the Middle Ages. You won't find it in our US Constitution, which the Court stopped using as written years ago, except as a misquoted premise for predetermined ideological decisions.

    Won't find what in the Constitution?
  • metta

    Posts: 39104

    Apr 30, 2014 3:08 PM GMT
    Link repair service

    WrestlerBoy said

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/post-nation/wp/2014/04/29/oklahoma-execution-botched-inmate-still-dies-second-execution-delayed/

    Inmate dies of heart attack after botched "execution" attempt.




    I'm not a supporter of capital punishment for a variety of reasons, including situations like this.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 3:09 PM GMT
    Thanks! I always fuck those up!
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    Apr 30, 2014 3:26 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said
    Art_Deco said43 Minutes to "Execute" a Human Being: What is our definition of "cruel and unusual" punishment?

    Thanks to our Republican-dominated regressive US Supreme Court, you'll find that definition somewhere back in the Middle Ages. You won't find it in our US Constitution, which the Court stopped using as written years ago, except as a misquoted premise for predetermined ideological decisions.

    Won't find what in the Constitution?

    Sorry, unclear. The Court's current Middle Ages view of execution is what is not in our US Constitution. It was precisely what the Founders were trying to eradicate with their "cruel & unusual" clause. Which the present Court is trying to incrementally repeal, to reinstate punishments that are indeed cruel, per the Middle Ages.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 3:34 PM GMT
    I see.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Apr 30, 2014 3:42 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said(1) "A doctor started to administer the first drug, a sedative intended to knock the man out and forestall pain, at 6:23 p.m. Ten minutes later, the doctor announced that Mr. Lockett was unconscious, and he started to administer the next two drugs, a paralytic and one intended to make the heart stop.

    At that point, witnesses said, things began to go awry. Mr. Lockett’s body twitched, his foot shook and he mumbled, witnesses said.

    At 6:37 p.m., he tried to rise and exhaled loudly. At that point, prison officials pulled a curtain in front of the witnesses and the doctor discovered a “vein failure,” Mr. Patton said.

    Without effective sedation, the second two drugs are known to cause agonizing suffocation and pain."

    (2) "Faced with shortages, Oklahoma and other states have turned to compounding pharmacies — lightly regulated laboratories that mix up drugs to order. Opponents have raised questions about quality control, especially after the widely reported dying gasps of a convict in Ohio for more than 10 minutes, and an Oklahoma inmate’s utterance, “I feel my whole body burning,” after being injected with compounded drugs."

    And you think the families of those victims are, what, laughing and rubbing their hands with glee about this, do you???



    In a way, they just might be. If he'd murdered someone close to me, I'd be willing to inject him with Anti-Freeze. Why should this savage enjoy a peaceful passing after what he did? This defines the difference between the mindset of the left and the right. I'm more concerned with INNOCENT life, the left is wringing their hands over the treatment of obvious evil. Let's not forget that this was an accident, not intentional. Shit happens, but don't expect much sympathy for a savage like that.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 3:49 PM GMT
    Blakes7 said
    WrestlerBoy said(1) "A doctor started to administer the first drug, a sedative intended to knock the man out and forestall pain, at 6:23 p.m. Ten minutes later, the doctor announced that Mr. Lockett was unconscious, and he started to administer the next two drugs, a paralytic and one intended to make the heart stop.

    At that point, witnesses said, things began to go awry. Mr. Lockett’s body twitched, his foot shook and he mumbled, witnesses said.

    At 6:37 p.m., he tried to rise and exhaled loudly. At that point, prison officials pulled a curtain in front of the witnesses and the doctor discovered a “vein failure,” Mr. Patton said.

    Without effective sedation, the second two drugs are known to cause agonizing suffocation and pain."

    (2) "Faced with shortages, Oklahoma and other states have turned to compounding pharmacies — lightly regulated laboratories that mix up drugs to order. Opponents have raised questions about quality control, especially after the widely reported dying gasps of a convict in Ohio for more than 10 minutes, and an Oklahoma inmate’s utterance, “I feel my whole body burning,” after being injected with compounded drugs."

    And you think the families of those victims are, what, laughing and rubbing their hands with glee about this, do you???



    In a way, they just might be. If he'd murdered someone close to me, I'd be willing to inject him with Anti-Freeze. Why should this savage enjoy a peaceful passing after what he did? This defines the difference between the mindset of the left and the right. I'm more concerned with INNOCENT life, the left is wringing their hands over the treatment of obvious evil. Let's not forget that this was an accident, not intentional. Shit happens, but don't expect much sympathy for a savage like that.


    These "authorities" doing the "executing" have been told repeatedly by a series of medical experts that this cocktail will not work; and it doesn't.

    "Defines the difference between the mindset of the left and right?" How about defines the difference between those of us who honor the rule of law, and some last remnant of humanity, and those who couldn't give a shit. And if you think being convicted of a crime, no matter how heinous, abrogates your right to be sujected to a "humane" execution, an earlier poster was right; you're not much better, morally, than this sick fuck was.

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 30, 2014 4:11 PM GMT
    If lethal injection is cruel and unusual, then why do they use it to put dogs and cats down? I thought it was supposed to be humane.

    Of course, a dog gets put down for biting. Human killers, like the baby rapist/murderer are a thousand times more evil than a dog could possibly be.

    Personally, I'm against capital punishment. I think a small dark cell with bread and water and no interaction whatsoever with other inmates or visitors or letters to and from the outside world would be enough to at least cut them off.

    Prosecutors and cops classically abhor defense attorneys. It's too sickening to see people defend killers who commit crimes that are unconscionable, as though they have inalienable rights. You alienate ALL of your rights when you bury a teenage girl alive. If someone does that then it really should be them in that grave, instead.

    If we're soft on certain criminals then people are going to take the law onto their own hands, which is worse. The criminal justice system has to function properly for us to call ourselves civilized.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 4:28 PM GMT
    [quote][cite]HottJoe said[/cite]If lethal injection is cruel and unusual, then why do they use it to put dogs and cats down? I thought it was supposed to be humane.

    Of course, a dog gets put down for biting. Human killers, like the baby rapist/murderer are a thousand times more evil than a dog could possibly be.

    Personally, I'm against capital punishment. I think a small dark cell with bread and water and no interaction with other inmates or visitors or letters to and from the outside world would be enough to at least cut them off.

    Prosecutors and cops classically abhor defense attorneys. It's too sickening to see people defend killers who commit crimes that are unconscionable, as though they have inalienable rights. You alienate ALL of your rights when you bury a teenage girl alive. If someone does that then it really should be them in that grave, instead.

    If we're soft on certain criminals then people are going to take the law onto their own hands, which is worse. The criminal justice system has to function properly for us to call ourselves civilized.

    "You alienate ALL of your rights when you bury a teenage girl alive."

    No, you do not; and our Constitution says you do not. As you are, again, here....

    "It's too sickening to see people defend killers who commit crimes that are unconscionable, as though they have inalienable rights."

    No attorney defends a "killer who has committed a crime." We defend people ACCUSED OF committing a crime. Maybe you should review who is the trier of fact in a criminal prosecution: The defense attorney, or the jury.

    You've got your entire chronology backwards, betraying what you truly think: If he's "charged", he must be guilty already, right?

    And we have a system for calling ourselves "civilized": The Constitution of the United States. But we've already seen nobody gives a fuck about the Fourth Amendment (Snowden), so now let's just walk all over the Eighth Amendment while we're at it.... how about we just hang, draw, and quarter murderers? I mean, they have no "inalienable rights".... right?

  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 30, 2014 4:46 PM GMT
    ^I'm talking about convicted killers. They have defense attorneys even after they are convicted, working on their appeals during their stay in prison.

    I never said anything about drawing and quartering them. I said I was against capital punishment.

    Snowden is a smug creep. I'd sooner support Manning, who was a whistle blower. Snowden started out as a whistle blower, but now he's just a talking head who's smugness and arrogance makes him think he's above the law. People want to pretend Snowden is folk hero, but he seems like an unprincipled fame whore to me.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 4:52 PM GMT
    HottJoe said^I'm talking about convicted killers. They have defense attorneys even after they are convicted, working on their appeals during their stay in prison.

    I never said anything about drawing and quartering them. I said I was against capital punishment.

    Snowden is a smug creep. I'd sooner support Manning, who was a whistle blower. Snowden started out as a whistle blower, but now he's just a talking head who's smugness and arrogance makes him think he's above the law. People want to pretend Snowden is folk hero, but he seems like an unprincipled fame whore to me.


    So, let me ask you, Joe: What did this 46-minute grizzly death fest do...for you? Make you feel "better"? Renew your faith in humanity? Bring the murdered victim back to life? As an earlier poster suggested, bring her family joy, happiness, and glee? Make you, personally, feel safe? Make you proud you live in the only country in the industrialized West that puts people to death and, as you inadvertently intimated, a lot slower and more agonizingly than we would a dog?

    I'm being serious; because I just don't know. What set of emotions does this repulsive exercise "trigger" in you?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 30, 2014 4:52 PM GMT
    Btw, inalienable rights is open to endless interpretation. For instance, the victim's family has the right to seek justice for a loved one, and treating serial killers and the like as though they are common criminals is a perversion of justice.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 30, 2014 4:54 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said
    HottJoe said^I'm talking about convicted killers. They have defense attorneys even after they are convicted, working on their appeals during their stay in prison.

    I never said anything about drawing and quartering them. I said I was against capital punishment.

    Snowden is a smug creep. I'd sooner support Manning, who was a whistle blower. Snowden started out as a whistle blower, but now he's just a talking head who's smugness and arrogance makes him think he's above the law. People want to pretend Snowden is folk hero, but he seems like an unprincipled fame whore to me.


    So, let me ask you, Joe: What did this 46-minute grizzly death fest do...for you? Make you feel "better"? Renew your faith in humanity? Bring the murdered victim back to life? As an earlier poster suggested, bring her family joy, happiness, and glee? Make you, personally, feel safe? Make you proud you live in the only country in the industrialized West that puts people to death and, as you inadvertently intimated, a lot slower and more agonizingly than we would a dog?

    I'm being serious; because I just don't know. What set of emotions does this repulsive exercise "trigger" in you?

    I just think that giving them the same "rights" as the girl they threw in the dumpster was supposed to have is akin to letting them get away with murder.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Apr 30, 2014 4:57 PM GMT
    WrestlerBoy said
    HottJoe said^I'm talking about convicted killers. They have defense attorneys even after they are convicted, working on their appeals during their stay in prison.

    I never said anything about drawing and quartering them. I said I was against capital punishment.

    Snowden is a smug creep. I'd sooner support Manning, who was a whistle blower. Snowden started out as a whistle blower, but now he's just a talking head who's smugness and arrogance makes him think he's above the law. People want to pretend Snowden is folk hero, but he seems like an unprincipled fame whore to me.


    So, let me ask you, Joe: What did this 46-minute grizzly death fest do...for you? Make you feel "better"? Renew your faith in humanity? Bring the murdered victim back to life? As an earlier poster suggested, bring her family joy, happiness, and glee? Make you, personally, feel safe? Make you proud you live in the only country in the industrialized West that puts people to death and, as you inadvertently intimated, a lot slower and more agonizingly than we would a dog?

    I'm being serious; because I just don't know. What set of emotions does this repulsive exercise "trigger" in you?

    I did not say that. I said we use the same methods for putting dogs down and call it humane.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Apr 30, 2014 5:02 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    WrestlerBoy said
    HottJoe said^I'm talking about convicted killers. They have defense attorneys even after they are convicted, working on their appeals during their stay in prison.

    I never said anything about drawing and quartering them. I said I was against capital punishment.

    Snowden is a smug creep. I'd sooner support Manning, who was a whistle blower. Snowden started out as a whistle blower, but now he's just a talking head who's smugness and arrogance makes him think he's above the law. People want to pretend Snowden is folk hero, but he seems like an unprincipled fame whore to me.


    So, let me ask you, Joe: What did this 46-minute grizzly death fest do...for you? Make you feel "better"? Renew your faith in humanity? Bring the murdered victim back to life? As an earlier poster suggested, bring her family joy, happiness, and glee? Make you, personally, feel safe? Make you proud you live in the only country in the industrialized West that puts people to death and, as you inadvertently intimated, a lot slower and more agonizingly than we would a dog?

    I'm being serious; because I just don't know. What set of emotions does this repulsive exercise "trigger" in you?

    I just think that giving them the same "rights" as the girl they threw in the dumpster was supposed to have is akin to letting them get away with murder.


    That isn't what I asked; and does it LOOK like he "got away with murder"?

    So, I'll go first: Her murder made me sick; and this made me sick. How did it make you feel?