Any other gay divorced dads had custody issues?

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    May 03, 2014 1:01 AM GMT
    I've been divorced for 5 years now and I had my first man2man experience after the divorce was final - never looked back since. Any other gay dads have continuing custody issues after their divorce? It's five years and we're still in court.

    I live in Idaho and the first thing my ex did was 'out' me in court. Then, when I entered into a relationship with a man, her lawyer questioned me about my gay relationship in court again to make sure that judge knew. (She'd requested the judge be switched so we had a new judge).

    I'm curious if other guys here have had legal issues with being gay and keeping custody of their children?
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    May 03, 2014 2:01 AM GMT
    moscowmikey saidI've been divorced for 5 years now and I had my first man2man experience after the divorce was final - never looked back since. Any other gay dads have continuing custody issues after their divorce? It's five years and we're still in court.

    I live in Idaho and the first thing my ex did was 'out' me in court. Then, when I entered into a relationship with a man, her lawyer questioned me about my gay relationship in court again to make sure that judge knew. (She'd requested the judge be switched so we had a new judge).

    I'm curious if other guys here have had legal issues with being gay and keeping custody of their children?

    Nope, I'm the poster guy for coming out. I wish you had the experience I had, sorry it's been so tough. Women can be so bitter sometimes. icon_sad.gif
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    May 03, 2014 2:11 AM GMT
    That ex of yours is evil!

    Bitch be evil!!icon_evil.gif

    Hope everything works out
  • BillandChuck

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    May 03, 2014 11:01 AM GMT
    The sad part is that there are still men who are susceptible to the outing blackmail and/or retribution tactics of vindictive exes. Despite much progress, still there are jurisdictions where homosexuality remains a legally-considered factor. And certainly a man's choice as to the privacy of his lifestyle is always a factor. As to the former, we have to continue the fight. As to the latter, we have to summon our courage.
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    May 03, 2014 2:48 PM GMT
    Ugh, that is infuriating. I hope you have lawyer--being gay cannot be the sole reason to deny you custody, but some judges have a sneaky way of saying that an alternative lifestyle will undermine "the best interests of the child," etc... bunch of crap.

    Good luck!

  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    May 03, 2014 3:24 PM GMT
    I was lucky. My ex-wife showed her greed early enough that I hired the best divorce lawyer in Texas. Without telling me, he accumulated enough stories about her crazy to savage her on the stand. If he'd told me he was going to do that I might have told him to not go that low. But it worked. The settlement was so small that she basically relied on my generosity to survive and that forced her to start being nice to me. I could be nice back and was, both personally and financially. We ended up acting friendly again and although the boys still had to hear what a mean guy I am and some totally untrue stories, I trusted that in time they'd see the truth. And they did.

    Moral: If your lawyer isn't getting the right result, get a better lawyer. It will payoff in the end. I'm not a fan of running to lawyers all the time but in the case of custody and alimony and child support, you've got to do it.

    ***Unrelated but something I was coached into doing with the kids: We talked on the phone 3-4 times/week when she had custody. Every time we talked I had three questions they came to expect to have to answer:
    1. How are your grades?
    2. How are you doing in (whatever sport they were into at the time)?
    3. Are you being nice to your mother?

    Achieve, excel, be kind.
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    May 03, 2014 4:42 PM GMT
    BillandChuck saidThe sad part is that there are still men who are susceptible to the outing blackmail and/or retribution tactics of vindictive exes. Despite much progress, still there are jurisdictions where homosexuality remains a legally-considered factor. And certainly a man's choice as to the privacy of his lifestyle is always a factor. As to the former, we have to continue the fight. As to the latter, we have to summon our courage.


    It's funny you mention that because two years before we divorced, she was going through my computer and found my stash of gay porn. I 'came out' to her that I was turned on by the idea of sex with another man. She used it for two years to blackmail me and get her way on anything she wanted to buy or do.

    During the year it took us to get divorced but were separated she often threatened to call the papers and make sure everyone in town knows my sexuality. She'd threatened and did have her lawyer naked pictures of me and some of my gay porn in an attempt to bias him.

    I don't think it worked directly, but discrimination can be a sneaky thing. Most people who are bigoted won't overtly tell you. Our custody evaluator had volumes of evangelical christian books in his library.

    I do know in Idaho in 2004 a judge took away a gay dad's rights stating that the children would be the focus of discrimination if they lived with him.

    http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/09/23/idaho-gay-dad-loses-again-in-custody-case.htm

    I think a lot has changed since 2004 and there are many, many factors in my case that I think will end up in the judge awarding me primary custody, but I doubt I'd be having these problems if I were a straight man or woman.
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    May 03, 2014 5:17 PM GMT
    ^ ^ ^
    wow, that's an unbelievable story! I can't imagine having to go through this. Unfortunately, the kids are the ones that lose the most. Loss of two parents sharing their love, loss of knowing the facts, loss of feeling secure as to their future.

    I commend you for not giving up though! You're a great dad to keep that fight alive!
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    May 03, 2014 5:20 PM GMT
    If you were straight you'd still have problems in all likelihood. You ex sounds like a bitter bitch (finding your gay porn probably made her even worse). I've heard lots of cases where wives (usually) drag the husbands and kids (usually) through custody hell.
  • BillandChuck

    Posts: 2024

    May 03, 2014 8:07 PM GMT
    moscowmikey said
    BillandChuck saidThe sad part is that there are still men who are susceptible to the outing blackmail and/or retribution tactics of vindictive exes. Despite much progress, still there are jurisdictions where homosexuality remains a legally-considered factor. And certainly a man's choice as to the privacy of his lifestyle is always a factor. As to the former, we have to continue the fight. As to the latter, we have to summon our courage.


    It's funny you mention that because two years before we divorced, she was going through my computer and found my stash of gay porn. I 'came out' to her that I was turned on by the idea of sex with another man. She used it for two years to blackmail me and get her way on anything she wanted to buy or do.

    During the year it took us to get divorced but were separated she often threatened to call the papers and make sure everyone in town knows my sexuality. She'd threatened and did have her lawyer naked pictures of me and some of my gay porn in an attempt to bias him.

    I don't think it worked directly, but discrimination can be a sneaky thing. Most people who are bigoted won't overtly tell you. Our custody evaluator had volumes of evangelical christian books in his library.

    I do know in Idaho in 2004 a judge took away a gay dad's rights stating that the children would be the focus of discrimination if they lived with him.

    http://atheism.about.com/b/2004/09/23/idaho-gay-dad-loses-again-in-custody-case.htm

    I think a lot has changed since 2004 and there are many, many factors in my case that I think will end up in the judge awarding me primary custody, but I doubt I'd be having these problems if I were a straight man or woman.

    Definitely a lot has changed in the last decade, but the continuing influence of the Mormon Church alone in Idaho's governance makes it a more treacherous scenario. An aggressive counsel for you, along with your continued good fathering are your best weapons. Best of luck to you.
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    May 03, 2014 11:15 PM GMT
    well i don't care how unsupportive this sounds but what do you expect her to do? have you heard from the countless women who's husbands have left them for other women, men or turned to pornography either gay or straight? do you know how much it hurts a woman? women are most hurt by their partners. they're most hurt by love. men aren't. it takes a lot more to hurt a man's pride, integrity etc. so no wonder you're getting such treatment.

    i mean, how can you expect and live with yourself for hurting her so much, now the marriage is taken away from her, the life she probably dreamed of and you want primary custody of the child? it sounds really selfish. how can you take or ignore all she's done for you in the marriage and now want the child too.

    differences aside, she would be more damaged and alone by your addiction to gay porn and interest in other men than you realise. they feel unwanted, undesirable and unloved even if you're just browsing porn. you've destroyed her by the single act of viewing porn. to her, it's not showing appreciation or love for her. so no doubt she's going to be aggressive or spiteful. she has been betrayed. sure, you can nitpick at a million things she may have done. i don't know you both but why aren't you working this out in other ways, emotionally, mentally, sexually and for the interests of your family. why does it have to end in a gay partnership being better for the child? just discard her because she doesn't see homosexuality the same way.

    and all the comments everyone's posting about how evil she is and she's a bigot and a bitch, should be ashamed you can view someone you don't know like that. to single her out as a reason to fight politically against your marriage and create more social division between straight, gay and who's the better person in front of the child in all of this?

    you're abusing your power and authority as a man and "rights" as a man and "rights" as an individual. have you ever thought about repairing the damage done to your marriage instead of now working against it? realising she still loves a man that didn't view gay porn or her the way he does now?

    this story is a shame for your entire family. personal liberties should not take precedence over your social and moral responsibilities. no offence but this story is the story of a man who is a cop-out failure. i'm sure you have your reasons but it's no way to deal with the privileges you've had in life such as marriage, a wife and a family.
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    May 04, 2014 12:13 AM GMT
    tryhardstud saidwell i don't care how unsupportive this sounds but what do you expect her to do? have you heard from the countless women who's husbands have left them for other women, men or turned to pornography either gay or straight? do you know how much it hurts a woman? women are most hurt by their partners. they're most hurt by love. men aren't. it takes a lot more to hurt a man's pride, integrity etc. so no wonder you're getting such treatment.

    i mean, how can you expect and live with yourself for hurting her so much, now the marriage is taken away from her, the life she probably dreamed of and you want primary custody of the child? it sounds really selfish. how can you take or ignore all she's done for you in the marriage and now want the child too.

    differences aside, she would be more damaged and alone by your addiction to gay porn and interest in other men than you realise. they feel unwanted, undesirable and unloved even if you're just browsing porn. you've destroyed her by the single act of viewing porn. to her, it's not showing appreciation or love for her. so no doubt she's going to be aggressive or spiteful. she has been betrayed. sure, you can nitpick at a million things she may have done. i don't know you both but why aren't you working this out in other ways, emotionally, mentally, sexually and for the interests of your family. why does it have to end in a gay partnership being better for the child? just discard her because she doesn't see homosexuality the same way.

    and all the comments everyone's posting about how evil she is and she's a bigot and a bitch, should be ashamed you can view someone you don't know like that. to single her out as a reason to fight politically against your marriage and create more social division between straight, gay and who's the better person in front of the child in all of this?

    you're abusing your power and authority as a man and "rights" as a man and "rights" as an individual. have you ever thought about repairing the damage done to your marriage instead of now working against it? realising she still loves a man that didn't view gay porn or her the way he does now?

    this story is a shame for your entire family. personal liberties should not take precedence over your social and moral responsibilities. no offence but this story is the story of a man who is a cop-out failure. i'm sure you have your reasons but it's no way to deal with the privileges you've had in life such as marriage, a wife and a family.

    I take it you don't think fathers should have rights.
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    May 04, 2014 12:23 AM GMT
    Gosh one of my ex bisexual loves, who was married to a female, and now divorced, got his kids with out a lot of trouble at all. Because the young girl he was to marry, found out he also liked men when she was a women, and did not want to know him, or the kids his sperm created, because if she had of known the truth from the start she would never of marred him or had his kids. She is now happily married and moved on with a new family,and one of my friends. He is growing old and bitter, because she outed him to his family.


    I know it's not what you asked, but it's another side to the coin of the same topic, and I'm not saying bi is bad either.

    All the best.
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    May 04, 2014 4:21 AM GMT
    condign punishment for having carnal knowledge of a female . . .
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    May 04, 2014 5:45 AM GMT
    Tryhardstud,

    I'm not ashamed at all to call out the woman in this case. The custody battle has dragged on for FIVE years! What impact is this having on the kids? I highly doubt they deserve to get dragged through the mud and you're kidding yourself if you think bitter divorces don't negatively affect the kids.

    So the wife found out her husband was gay. Yeah, sucks for her but she needs to act like an adult parent and settle the issue quickly and reasonably.
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    May 04, 2014 2:12 PM GMT
    The reason we got divorced wasn't because of my affections for men. I'd made a commitment to her and my family and I was willing to forgo my interest in men in the same way that we forsake all others in the bonds of marriage (if those are your marriage vows, which is what ours were).

    When she discovered that I was also attracted to men, at first it was a positive thing for our relationship. I'm also sexually attracted to women, although at this point in my life I prefer men.

    We talked a lot and agreed to be more adventurous in our sex life and for months we explored a lot of fantasies and play that we didn't in our first 5 years of marriage. I really felt sexually freed. Because I was committed to her, I didn't cheat with a man or a woman. I wouldn't have my first experience with a man until after our divorce was final.

    After a few months of crazy fun monogamous sexual play she became concerned that now that I was 'free' that I'd no longer be with her.

    She became resentful and increasingly violent. She'd always had periodic fits of uncontrollable rage lasting a few days, but not like this. I'd learn later, after we separated, that she has Borderline Personality Disorder.

    In the two years after the discovery, she became increasing threatening and violent. When she'd be in a rage...she'd yell at me for hours (standard behavior for her) and started pushing me on the chest...then hitting my chest during arguments. Eventually she moved on to trying to strangle me and finally, just before the police removed her from our home, she tried to stab me with our kitchen knives.

    I was so deep into the denial of her mental problems and the victim syndrome that happens when you're in a controlling relationship that I didn't press charges. I didn't think about divorce until she served me divorce papers the next day.

    Luckily, Alternatives to Violence and a very helpful counselor helped me come to grips with what was happening and rebuilding my sense of self.

    I am free. My children are still in that environment and are the victims of her rages. I've gotten the courts to order counseling for our girls, but my ex keeps canceling the appointments after a few sessions. After the last court order and she interfered with the counseling, she used her legal right to remove the judge and we started all over with a new judge.

    We had our first day in court Wednesday. We're back in court May 20th.
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    May 04, 2014 3:15 PM GMT
    This is what happens when confused me seek out crazy women to define their own sexuality. You are both in need of serious psychological help, but it seems you both enjoy the battle instead of doing what is best for the children.
    Irresponsible adults should never breed and this is a perfect example. Confused man and angry bitter woman do not put children first, instead engaging in hateful fighting in court.
    I just wonder what sort of issues the children will have when they are adults. You have role modeled incredibly bad behavior and you only need to find a mirror to discover who is at fault. Instead of sending the children to counseling, maybe you and the ex could schedule some time to figure out what is best for the kids and forget about your need to engage in childish behavior with an unstable former spouse.
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    May 04, 2014 3:44 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidThis is what happens when confused me seek out crazy women to define their own sexuality. You are both in need of serious psychological help, but it seems you both enjoy the battle instead of doing what is best for the children.
    Irresponsible adults should never breed and this is a perfect example. Confused man and angry bitter woman do not put children first, instead engaging in hateful fighting in court.
    I just wonder what sort of issues the children will have when they are adults. You have role modeled incredibly bad behavior and you only need to find a mirror to discover who is at fault. Instead of sending the children to counseling, maybe you and the ex could schedule some time to figure out what is best for the kids and forget about your need to engage in childish behavior with an unstable former spouse.


    Thank you for you reply. I know first hand that a lot of guys see it exactly the same way you do.

    I believe sexual preference to be a complex interaction of a number of genetic and experiential factors resulting in a wide range of personal outcomes. I don't think most men who are of mixed sexuality who get married are looking to marriage to define their sexuality. Clarity of orientation isn't a universal 'gay' experience.

    I do have a counselor and have since I separated. It has helped me become a better parent, cope with the stress of this ongoing experience and navigate the issues of my sexuality.

    Thanks again for expressing your opinion. I think it does help to take a hard look at oneself and yes, I do take responsibility for my part in creating this problem.
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    May 05, 2014 12:29 AM GMT
    smartmoney saidThis is what happens when confused me seek out crazy women to define their own sexuality. You are both in need of serious psychological help, but it seems you both enjoy the battle instead of doing what is best for the children.
    Irresponsible adults should never breed and this is a perfect example. Confused man and angry bitter woman do not put children first, instead engaging in hateful fighting in court.

    You obviously have never set foot in a divorce court. If you had, you'd see lots and lots of totally hetero couples who never questioned their orientation for a second. And you'd see them waging total war against each other, using every available weapon, with no regard for the psychological (or financial) impact on the kids, with the sole purpose of wreaking vengeance for every real or imagined hurt from the relationship.
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    May 05, 2014 4:39 AM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    smartmoney saidThis is what happens when confused me seek out crazy women to define their own sexuality. You are both in need of serious psychological help, but it seems you both enjoy the battle instead of doing what is best for the children.
    Irresponsible adults should never breed and this is a perfect example. Confused man and angry bitter woman do not put children first, instead engaging in hateful fighting in court.

    You obviously have never set foot in a divorce court. If you had, you'd see lots and lots of totally hetero couples who never questioned their orientation for a second. And you'd see them waging total war against each other, using every available weapon, with no regard for the psychological (or financial) impact on the kids, with the sole purpose of wreaking vengeance for every real or imagined hurt from the relationship.


    This ^^^ is an awesome point...with gay marriage will come gay divorce.

    Equal rights is about to get real.
  • Destinharbor

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    May 05, 2014 2:48 PM GMT
    smartmoney saidThis is what happens when confused me seek out crazy women to define their own sexuality. You are both in need of serious psychological help, but it seems you both enjoy the battle instead of doing what is best for the children.
    Irresponsible adults should never breed and this is a perfect example. Confused man and angry bitter woman do not put children first, instead engaging in hateful fighting in court.
    I just wonder what sort of issues the children will have when they are adults. You have role modeled incredibly bad behavior and you only need to find a mirror to discover who is at fault. Instead of sending the children to counseling, maybe you and the ex could schedule some time to figure out what is best for the kids and forget about your need to engage in childish behavior with an unstable former spouse.

    Ridiculous statement. You obviously don't know anything about Borderline Personality Disorder. It is a woman's issue exclusively and unlike its terrible name, it is a very specific diagnosis. It usually doesn't hit until a woman is in her 20's and it mostly evaporates during menopause so the belief is it is a hormonal imbalance. It causes a lot of the same symptoms as Schizophrenia and causes hallucinations. My ex-wife had it, too. She could ask me how I like a new way she cooked chicken and my answer be that I liked some other way she cooks it better-- by the next morning, in her mind, we had had a knock down drag out fight during which I tried to murder her. That's how it works. So you're always walking on eggshells and the kids can be confused and frightened. She'll do it with them, too. My wife was locked up in institutions three times with it. They can learn to control it but only if they acknowledge they have it. AA is actually a pretty good way for them to get it under control. But they also have a tendency to blame everyone else for their problems and can be very aggressive.

    Unbelievable you'd blame the OP.



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    May 05, 2014 4:08 PM GMT
    TexDef07 said
    smartmoney saidThis is what happens when confused me seek out crazy women to define their own sexuality. You are both in need of serious psychological help, but it seems you both enjoy the battle instead of doing what is best for the children.
    Irresponsible adults should never breed and this is a perfect example. Confused man and angry bitter woman do not put children first, instead engaging in hateful fighting in court.

    You obviously have never set foot in a divorce court. If you had, you'd see lots and lots of totally hetero couples who never questioned their orientation for a second. And you'd see them waging total war against each other, using every available weapon, with no regard for the psychological (or financial) impact on the kids, with the sole purpose of wreaking vengeance for every real or imagined hurt from the relationship.

    Exactly! My daughter is going through this now. Original shared custody of my granddaughter with the father because she attends school nearby. The mother is 20 miles away and gets her on weekends +. The child is doing terrible in school, doesn't get her homework done, father takes her to school late often despite having not worked in 8 years and living 2 (YES 2) blocks from the school, tries marijuana (legal for med purpose) in her room (she does not sleep in there) and yet the court will not switch custody so the child can go to a different school. Father has no apparent concern for the wellbeing of the child (nor does the court despite their acclamation).

    Kids need to come first. Parents often forget who's the adult and the need to parent first and fight second. It's never an easy battle but regardless of who the child lives with M - F, shared custody means just that….shared!
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    May 05, 2014 6:25 PM GMT
    I actually know a guy in Idaho as well who went through the same crap for a couple years. He was eventually denied custody and has to travel to another state just to see them.
    She was also a very bitter bitch and ruined his life.

    He loves his kids and I could tell how much of a toll it took on him. He still trucks on though and still remains as optimistic as he possibly can. That's all you can do and it sucks she can't be open minded and see that you're still the same dad to those kids and that wont change just because you like men.

    I'm sorry and I hope it works in your favor.
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    May 05, 2014 6:48 PM GMT
    You're finding out it would have been easier to have her killed, eh? LOL!

    I waited until my child was grown and in college before coming out to my ex. I didn't want my kid being used as a pawn between two warring "adults." I knew my ex wouldn't act fairly with me. Even with the kid being an adult she was still a lousy cunt throughout the divorce proceedings.

    I have no relationship with my daughter because of her. I've heard through the grapevine my daughter is being married next May. Neither she nor my ex has bothered to tell me. I guess the bills haven't started piling up.

    BTW. that's her (my ex) name in my cell phone directory: Lousy Cunt.
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    May 05, 2014 11:33 PM GMT
    ddobson1985 saidI actually know a guy in Idaho as well who went through the same crap for a couple years. He was eventually denied custody and has to travel to another state just to see them.
    She was also a very bitter bitch and ruined his life.

    He loves his kids and I could tell how much of a toll it took on him. He still trucks on though and still remains as optimistic as he possibly can. That's all you can do and it sucks she can't be open minded and see that you're still the same dad to those kids and that wont change just because you like men.

    I'm sorry and I hope it works in your favor.


    Idaho is a tough place for gay dads. Even if the law prevented discrimination based upon sexual orientation, much of Idaho is so homophobic that a person is likely to get a custody evaluator, lawyer, or even judge that believes homosexuality is a sin against God and that an openly homosexual father, particularly if he is in a relationship, is not in the children's best interest.

    I may have said, I don't think our current judge is completely biased. However, I do think our parenting coordinator, who is from a very backwater town in Idaho, was not comfortable with my sexuality. When she came to my house to see how the girls lived in my home she was very nervous.

    I do stay focused on the girls though. If the girls say something negative about their mother..a kind of tattling...I tell them I'm not interesting in hearing bad things about their mother. Honestly, I don't want to waste any of our time on such negatively. It isn't divorce that causes kids problems, but the way the parents involve the children in trying to take sides.