Is man a sovereign individual who owns his own person, his life, his work, his mind and its product?

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    May 06, 2014 2:44 AM GMT
    http://triblive.com/opinion/ralphreiland/6041158-74/hoops-safe-craviotto?utm_content=buffer54300&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com&utm_campaign=buffer#axzz30sUZffmb

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  • AWashingtonia...

    Posts: 128

    May 06, 2014 4:01 AM GMT
    It depends upon the context.
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    May 06, 2014 4:18 AM GMT
    Loves Ayn Rand's work / themes.. I've wanted to read that book for two years... Maybe I buy it next book shop... Its like 1,000 pages small print.. heavy... Maybe I buy for tablet...

    Anyway this is perfect - I did same thing as doctor... Is very strong and good, so yea a person can be sovereign over self but, expect many opponents.
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    May 06, 2014 5:11 AM GMT
    Snaz saidLoves Ayn Rand's work / themes.. I've wanted to read that book for two years... Maybe I buy it next book shop... Its like 1,000 pages small print.. heavy... Maybe I buy for tablet...

    Anyway this is perfect - I did same thing as doctor... Is very strong and good, so yea a person can be sovereign over self but, expect many opponents.


    Of course you're sovereign over self. Everyone is.

    Personal opinion ahead:
    Recognizing that you are part of a society is entirely another. That's where people see what someone does with their sovereignity. Like the fire department you pay towards. If we recognise personal sovereignity, I feel then that we also must accept the responsibility of it; when such sovereignity willingly makes use of the social fabric they find around them so a sovereign would assist in supporting it, as it was designed and implemented by other sovereigns.

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    May 06, 2014 6:59 AM GMT
    Yes
    Ayn Rand is credited for developing objectivism, how their sovereignty was undercut by Hitler forcing the Rands to emigrate.. That is the relevance of reference. A critique or, examination of implications of social structure(s).
  • AWashingtonia...

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    May 06, 2014 10:10 AM GMT
    It seems like Ciszek, With God in Russia
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    May 06, 2014 3:01 PM GMT
    Bonus points for the above reference to responsibility.

    Sovereignty is not sociopathy.
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    Jun 05, 2014 5:14 PM GMT
    meninlove said
    Snaz saidLoves Ayn Rand's work / themes.. I've wanted to read that book for two years... Maybe I buy it next book shop... Its like 1,000 pages small print.. heavy... Maybe I buy for tablet...

    Anyway this is perfect - I did same thing as doctor... Is very strong and good, so yea a person can be sovereign over self but, expect many opponents.


    Of course you're sovereign over self. Everyone is.

    Personal opinion ahead:
    Recognizing that you are part of a society is entirely another. That's where people see what someone does with their sovereignity. Like the fire department you pay towards. If we recognise personal sovereignity, I feel then that we also must accept the responsibility of it; when such sovereignity willingly makes use of the social fabric they find around them so a sovereign would assist in supporting it, as it was designed and implemented by other sovereigns.



    Straw man.
  • SuntoryTime

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    Jun 05, 2014 5:42 PM GMT
    Are some of the posters here here only to indoctrinate?
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jun 05, 2014 5:48 PM GMT
    We are the products of nature and nurture. Man has a big ego, but it can be a dangerous delusion. We do our most damage to the environment and other groups of people when we act as a group, and sometimes to say we're all individuals sounds like a cop out. We all have a stake in society, and as a group we are more than the sum of our parts.

    Ayn Rand was a hater who thought psychopaths were the greatest thing since the industrial revolution. She believed in the dollar almighty. She revered rich capitalists as though they were gods. She had nothing but disdain for the humble, the weak, and the poor.
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    Jun 06, 2014 12:00 AM GMT
    yes
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    Jul 11, 2014 2:31 AM GMT
    Of course Rand was a nutjob. But so have many philosophers and thinkers thru the ages been such.

    Whether she's a loon or not, how can you argue with this? (Note that this does not only pertain to doctors, but to anyone whose work derives from the products of the mind):

    “I have often wondered at the smugness with which people assert their right to enslave me, to control my work, to force my will, to violate my conscience, to stifle my mind — yet what is it they expect to depend on when they lie on an operating table under my hands? Their moral code has taught them to believe that it is safe to rely on the virtue of the victims. Well, that is the virtue I have withdrawn. Let them discover the kind of doctors their system will now produce. Let them discover, in their operating rooms and hospital wards, that it is not safe to place their lives in the hands of a man whose life they have throttled. It is not safe, if he is the sort of man who resents it — and still less safe, if he is the sort who doesn't.”


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    Jul 11, 2014 2:54 AM GMT
    HottJoe saidWe are the products of nature and nurture. Man has a big ego, but it can be a dangerous delusion. We do our most damage to the environment and other groups of people when we act as a group, and sometimes to say we're all individuals sounds like a cop out. We all have a stake in society, and as a group we are more than the sum of our parts.

    Ayn Rand was a hater who thought psychopaths were the greatest thing since the industrial revolution. She believed in the dollar almighty. She revered rich capitalists as though they were gods. She had nothing but disdain for the humble, the weak, and the poor.


    She was crazy, tis true. But your criticisms in this case are misinformed.

    She did not revere all rich capitalists. In her works, she reserves some of the most bitter ire for those capitalists (or opinion leaders, or other such prominent individuals) who work the system for their own benefit, who gladly give in to the demands of the collective. Today we'd call them "crony capitalists" (which is actually an imprecise and incomplete term).

    She also did not "believe in the dollar almighty." The dollar is merely an outward manifestation of the true object of her admiration, that is the noble products of a man's mind, his freedom, and his ambition.

    She only had disdain for the humble, weak, and poor insofar as they used their status (or were used by others) to achieve a sort of (perverted) hero status.

    Think Cindy Sheehan, Sandra Fluke, Matthew Shepard, Ashley Judd, Robin Roberts, Bradley Manning, Princess Diana, Winifred Skinner, Valerie Plame, and pretty much the entire list of Gloria Allred's clients.
  • AWashingtonia...

    Posts: 128

    Sep 05, 2014 4:19 PM GMT
    SuntoryTime saidAre some of the posters here here only to indoctrinate?


    I thought that's what all posters are here for...