Doll Experiment Reveals Racial Preferences

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    May 07, 2014 12:32 AM GMT
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    NYT: This 1947 photograph (by Gordon Parks, for Ebony Magazine) may look simply like a child being observed at play, but, in fact, it reveals an experiment that helped lead 60 years ago this month to the Supreme Court’s monumental decision in Brown v. Board of Education, demanding the racial integration of American public schools.

    As Kenneth Clark recalled in 1985, he would produce white and black dolls and say, “Show me the doll that you like to play with … the doll that’s a nice doll … the doll that’s a bad doll.”

    A majority of the African-American children from segregated schools preferred the white doll and rejected the black doll. By Dr. Clark’s account, when those boys and girls were then told, “Now show me the doll that’s most like you,” some became “emotionally upset at having to identify with the doll that they had rejected.” Some even stormed out of the room.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/05/07/upshot/how-an-experiment-with-dolls-helped-lead-to-school-integration.html?hpw&rref=education
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    May 07, 2014 12:38 AM GMT
    I loved this study.

    I thought it was hilarious that during the 1896 case Plessy v. Ferguson, the SC claimed that separate but equal doesn't stamp blacks with a badge of inferiority.

    This research proved that it does and was a main factor in winning Brown v. Board, overturning Plessy.
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    May 07, 2014 12:50 AM GMT
    They replicated this study in Mexico recently, and the results were pretty much the same. You can see that most of the children are mestizo (mixed Spanish and Native) as most (but not all) of the demographics in Mexico. However, they still try to identify with the white doll more. Quick History lesson: Mexico had more black slaves than the caribbean at one point due to size, and so 16 castes were made combining European x Native x African in descending order of social privilege.

    Now...

    The younger kids don't have an answer as to why they pick the one they do. The older ones start attributing traits to their color though. One of them gets asked "which one is more like you?" He picks the white, gets asked from where, and replies "Hmm....his...ears." Another one said the black doll is bad because it can hit him (violent). Another kid said he trusts lighter people more, and a girl said she doesn't like the color brown.

    This is just proof that these kind of ideas and perceptions affect not only the United States, but also other countries due to colonialism, and now globalization.

    Also, the video says they couldn't find a brown doll like the one from the original experiment in Mexico City toy stores. They had to buy a black doll, paint its skin lighter (from black to brown), and change the eye color from blue to brown.

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    May 07, 2014 12:55 AM GMT
    I wonder if it's kind of the same thing with the way media portrays some races more than others and the way that links to certain races being preferred over others in the dating world.
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    May 07, 2014 1:12 AM GMT
    Oh yeah, it's all about having representation, and then HOW that representation happens. My uncle in Mexico has never met a black person, but he watches dubbed American films. I remember one time he said "Blacks are really good at basketball but they're also kinda dumb, right?" Next time you go see a movie, think "how many white people are good in this film, and how many others are irrelevant characters?"
    Also, growing up with dubbed films, all people in movies speak in the same kind of tone. However, coming to the U.S, films with antromorphic animals are sometimes given a stereotypical X or Y so that the audience can identify it with a race. Think the Hyenas in Lion King or that one movie with the Siamese cats and the Chihuahua.

    If representation is negative (think blackface or say, Cinco de Mayo with Mexicans...), then there will be a negativity associated with certain physical traits. Making stereotypes negative or even humorous (ridiculing) also affects those people getting taken seriously.

    And then people say others are too sensitive for wanting to get rid of racist costumes.
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    May 07, 2014 5:10 AM GMT
    Great. So for four years instead of walking two blocks to my school I was bussed across town to a bad neighborhood because of damned dolls?
  • HottJoe

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    May 07, 2014 3:38 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidGreat. So for four years instead of walking two blocks to my school I was bussed across town to a bad neighborhood because of damned dolls?

    Were you living in a segregated neighborhood which you were afraid to leave?

    You seem to have turned out all right.icon_confused.gif

    I grew up in a city where the closest public school was diverse, so they didn't have to bus kids all over kingdom come just to desegregate schools.
  • tj85016

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    May 07, 2014 4:31 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidGreat. So for four years instead of walking two blocks to my school I was bussed across town to a bad neighborhood because of damned dolls?


    yeah some towns in New Jersey had the same crap, it was a disaster for everyone involved
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    May 07, 2014 5:10 PM GMT
    one day it'll change
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    May 07, 2014 6:27 PM GMT
    I did an argumentative paper recently over how the West's Eurocentrism effects the world. I knew it was hitting Asia, Africa and parts of South America but I never thought to include Mexico. This experiment has been repeated in the US at least twice, years apart and the results had barely changed.
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    May 07, 2014 6:48 PM GMT
    Fascinating / #interesting study.

    These are like the Dark Indians and Chinese here...I would like to try these on the Chindians; Indian and chinese mix kids in my class and see how they actually answer cause these are no average kids of mind intellect. And try it on other mixed race kids icon_cool.gif.

    wait how old are these kids again?

    *I'm try it on my favorite 4 year old smarties icon_cool.gif. But I do know know it goes on a develop intellect level of child's mind.
  • tj85016

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    May 07, 2014 6:52 PM GMT
    ^^
    you think white people are racist? Just wait until you look into Koreans, Japanese and the Chinese
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    May 07, 2014 7:24 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    eagermuscle saidGreat. So for four years instead of walking two blocks to my school I was bussed across town to a bad neighborhood because of damned dolls?

    Were you living in a segregated neighborhood which you were afraid to leave?

    You seem to have turned out all right.icon_confused.gif

    I grew up in a city where the closest public school was diverse, so they didn't have to bus kids all over kingdom come just to desegregate schools.

    Every classroom kindergarten (private) through second grade (public) had one or two black kids (and, for that matter, one or two fat kids though to be sure those percentages have shot way up). I was color blind until desegregation began and instead of riding my Huffy to grammar school I had to endure a nearly hour long bus ride to and from schools in very sketchy neighborhoods where I got routinely beat up by black kids who'd call me and other "honkies" the "N" word. So in the seventies you couldn't exactly call me a fan. But once gay in Manhattan in the eighties all it took was sleeping with some hot black guys to turn all that around. Which is why I can't stand all those race vs. preference threads since hot trumps race and opens minds.
  • 1AlanZSky

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    May 07, 2014 7:30 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^
    you think white people are racist? Just wait until you look into Koreans, Japanese and the Chinese


    Because apparently Koreans want to look like white people, get plastic surgery and become white. That is warped mentality.
  • tj85016

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    May 07, 2014 8:24 PM GMT
    AlanZSky said
    tj85016 said^^
    you think white people are racist? Just wait until you look into Koreans, Japanese and the Chinese


    Because apparently Koreans want to look like white people, get plastic surgery and become white. That is warped mentality.


    I lived in the LA area for 3 years and NYC for 25, I've never seen much evidence of that
  • 1AlanZSky

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    May 07, 2014 8:30 PM GMT
    tj85016 said
    AlanZSky said
    tj85016 said^^
    you think white people are racist? Just wait until you look into Koreans, Japanese and the Chinese


    Because apparently Koreans want to look like white people, get plastic surgery and become white. That is warped mentality.


    I lived in the LA area for 3 years and NYC for 25, I've never seen much evidence of that


    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-2610231/Plastic-surgery-South-Korea-good-people-travelling-home-surgery-need-CERTIFICATES-prove-are.html

    http://www.ryot.org/photos-plastic-surgery-is-so-extreme-in-south-korea-that-people-need-new-ids/652457
  • 1AlanZSky

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    May 07, 2014 8:32 PM GMT
    http://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/

    "The definition of pretty, explains their plastic surgeon, is not the standard Asian face, but closer to a Caucasian face. Dr Kim Byung-gun is the head of Seoul, South Korea's biggest plastic surgery clinic, BK DongYang. The clinic is a dozen stories tall, with all of its operating rooms full on the day of Min kyong's surgery."
  • tj85016

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    May 07, 2014 8:35 PM GMT
    ^^

    so what's the point? in the examples, they all look a hell of a lot better
  • 1AlanZSky

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    May 07, 2014 8:49 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    so what's the point? in the examples, they all look a hell of a lot better


    Exactly! Through your eyes it looks better. Conditioned to believe in the "Western" view of beauty. Why plastic surgery? It's not as if you are going to be born that way. Your kids will still have the genes. Their kids will need to have plastic surgery.
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    May 07, 2014 9:09 PM GMT
    AlanZSky said
    tj85016 said^^

    so what's the point? in the examples, they all look a hell of a lot better


    Exactly! Through your eyes it looks better. Conditioned to believe in the "Western" view of beauty. Why plastic surgery? It's not as if you are going to be born that way. Your kids will still have the genes. Their kids will need to have plastic surgery.


    And then you've got skin bleaching across Africa and India.
  • Eli_jah

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    May 08, 2014 3:22 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    so what's the point? in the examples, they all look a hell of a lot better


    Ouch! I mean, some of those women don't even look Asian anymore. They could legitimately pass for Caucasian women.

    I guess that is the goal, but it is just striking to me, to think about the sheer level of self hatred it must take to want to radically change the FACE YOU WERE BORN WITH, to such an extreme that you might as well be someone else.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    May 08, 2014 4:09 PM GMT
    AlanZSky saidhttp://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/


    Wow, that was so interesting to watch.
    I didn't realize how big the "western look" was over there.
  • SuntoryTime

    Posts: 656

    May 08, 2014 4:34 PM GMT
    eagermuscle saidGreat. So for four years instead of walking two blocks to my school I was bussed across town to a bad neighborhood because of damned dolls?


    All things considered, the answer to this question is no.
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    May 08, 2014 8:28 PM GMT
    I'm sure though if you asked anyone of European and or white ancestry my self included i think its a sad case of affairs what people are doing to look westernised icon_neutral.gif
  • 1AlanZSky

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    May 08, 2014 8:52 PM GMT
    ACRO_Slim said
    AlanZSky saidhttp://edition.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/asiapcf/05/19/korea.beauty/


    Wow, that was so interesting to watch.
    I didn't realize how big the "western look" was over there.


    It's disgusting. I blame capitalism and its rule over the people. They spread the idea of the Perfect Western man/woman. Hollywood and its superstars. The glamour and the money. It's disgusting.

    Be happy with who you are.