Exercise makes you forget stuff?

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    May 09, 2014 5:14 PM GMT
    Maybe a bit of a leap to make that conclusion from this mouse experiment Or maybe mice really are dumb jocks...

    Now, if I can just remember where I put that link...

    "Adult mice that exercised on a running wheel after experiencing an event were more likely than their inactive mates to forget the experience, according to a paper from researchers at the University of Toronto, published in Science today. "

    Their hypothesis is that it has to do with neurogenesis and its effects on memory formation.
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    May 09, 2014 8:30 PM GMT
    There was a study done some researchers at UC Berkeley where they studied the effects of some monkeys eating androgenic foods. At a certain time of the year it was what was only or mainly available. From their observations they concluded that it made them more aggressive and combative. But they stressed that just because it affected monkeys that we can't draw the conclusion that the same thing would happen with humans.
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    May 09, 2014 11:15 PM GMT
    Is forgetting the same as the endorphin rush accompanying working out hard that leads you to think, "fuck it...it doesn't matter."
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    May 09, 2014 11:19 PM GMT
    bon_pan saidIs forgetting the same as the endorphin rush accompanying working out hard that leads you to think, "fuck it...it doesn't matter."


    This is what I'm thinking too ... icon_idea.gif
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    May 12, 2014 3:24 PM GMT
    No I don't quite think it is...icon_confused.gif

    What I do see that Exercise gives you a inflow burst of new idea....that is as far been for me. A more electrifying thought.

    Well it does have a factor "Brain food" to deal with, I believe.

    and another Does it have to do with Age? icon_confused.gif
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    May 14, 2014 7:40 AM GMT
    Here it is:

    http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/39915/title/Exercise-Can-Erase-Memories/
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    May 14, 2014 4:26 PM GMT
    If I go for my swim now, can I target which memories I'd like obliterated?
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    May 15, 2014 5:50 AM GMT
    How is it that dancing off sets dementia while exercise causes memory loss?
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    May 17, 2014 1:30 PM GMT
    BP201 saidHow is it that dancing off sets dementia while exercise causes memory loss?


    Oy, I read this a few times but couldn't figure out what you were saying which in itself didn't make sense because you've made perfect sense in the past. OFFSET. It's a word. lol. I kept reading that as a dance-off which sets (like as in concrete) some disease into being.

    So what you're saying is an activity like dancing can help a person with dementia even though that's exercise which can cause memory loss. Okay, now I get it.

    I hadn't heard that before but on reading finally what you said my first thought was neuroplasticity and then as soon as I googled "dancing Alzheimer's" sure enough I came up with http://socialdance.stanford.edu/syllabi/smarter.htm which mentions early on neuroplasticity so of course I agree with they who agree with me as it makes perfect sense given what we think we know.

    So that would be how dancing can offset or delay dementia and part of dementia is the inability or damaged ability to learn new things (involving short term memory) coincidentally the part that truly scares me. That in turn works hand in hand with plasticity in that learning new things in different ways than before is what encourages plasticity which in turn allows for learning ever more new things. With regard to dementia, particularly Alzheimer's, I don't know that this would fight the development of the plaques and tangles (which I've read is suspected though I don't know if that's known) or if it more likely compensates for their growth by creating more neurological pathways for the brain to utilize when other paths are destroyed.

    And that's how I described my mother at the time, before all the talk about neuroplasticity, as she is a person who did all those things discussed now to better the brain. It always seemed to me as if she was moving her very being to undestroyed parts of her brain and that's how I used to describe it and that might have been an unwitting but accurate physical description of what was going on inside her.

    Yet another curious thing about what you said and how that ties into the research that mindgarden shows is the play between longer and shorter term memories, all in study now, and the article addresses that with its comment on the concept of "in with the new out with the old", noting that we don't want all of our memories because that would interfere with the tasks of daily living, etc. And it is this very concept, the inability of accomplishing the tasks of daily living which is a big part of defining dementia.

    On top of which the exertion required in dance to effect memory might be more than whatever a demented 78 year old might put into a slow dance. I suppose we could go out and disco.

    What I'd like to see studied in this is not just the effect of neurogenesis on the memories themselves but does that at all play into emotions attached to memories and if so then might not there be some real application to some psychological damages such as post traumatic stress disorder or the betrayal trauma that I suffer. I'd love to see research move in that direction of finding some fixes.
  • waccamatt

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    May 17, 2014 8:47 PM GMT
    I think the opposite is more likely to be true.
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    May 18, 2014 12:58 AM GMT
    theantijock said
    BP201 saidHow is it that dancing off sets dementia while exercise causes memory loss?


    Oy, I read this a few times but couldn't figure out what you were saying which in itself didn't make sense because you've made perfect sense in the past. OFFSET. It's a word. lol. I kept reading that as a dance-off which sets (like as in concrete) some disease into being.

    So what you're saying is an activity like dancing can help a person with dementia even though that's exercise which can cause memory loss. Okay, now I get it.

    I hadn't heard that before but on reading finally what you said my first thought was neuroplasticity and then as soon as I googled "dancing Alzheimer's" sure enough I came up with http://socialdance.stanford.edu/syllabi/smarter.htm which mentions early on neuroplasticity so of course I agree with they who agree with me as it makes perfect sense given what we think we know.

    So that would be how dancing can offset or delay dementia and part of dementia is the inability or damaged ability to learn new things (involving short term memory) coincidentally the part that truly scares me. That in turn works hand in hand with plasticity in that learning new things in different ways than before is what encourages plasticity which in turn allows for learning ever more new things. With regard to dementia, particularly Alzheimer's, I don't know that this would fight the development of the plaques and tangles (which I've read is suspected though I don't know if that's known) or if it more likely compensates for their growth by creating more neurological pathways for the brain to utilize when other paths are destroyed.

    And that's how I described my mother at the time, before all the talk about neuroplasticity, as she is a person who did all those things discussed now to better the brain. It always seemed to me as if she was moving her very being to undestroyed parts of her brain and that's how I used to describe it and that might have been an unwitting but accurate physical description of what was going on inside her.

    Yet another curious thing about what you said and how that ties into the research that mindgarden shows is the play between longer and shorter term memories, all in study now, and the article addresses that with its comment on the concept of "in with the new out with the old", noting that we don't want all of our memories because that would interfere with the tasks of daily living, etc. And it is this very concept, the inability of accomplishing the tasks of daily living which is a big part of defining dementia.

    On top of which the exertion required in dance to effect memory might be more than whatever a demented 78 year old might put into a slow dance. I suppose we could go out and disco.

    What I'd like to see studied in this is not just the effect of neurogenesis on the memories themselves but does that at all play into emotions attached to memories and if so then might not there be some real application to some psychological damages such as post traumatic stress disorder or the betrayal trauma that I suffer. I'd love to see research move in that direction of finding some fixes.


    Oop, yes. Offsets.
    That article you just posted was a good read. Definitely more detailed than I initially thought. I just knew my former dance instructor used to hold classes for senior citizens for this very reason. He'd teach them new choreography every week or month or whatever the case. (Which makes me wonder if freestyle dance has the same effect compared to choreographed dance) It kept them busy in more ways than one, plus it's a good exercise (which goes against this very thread).. Most of them were also lonely, which makes them more prone to the disease, so the class was very important to them.
    You seem a lot more familiar with the in and outs of the disease(s), but I think you're right when you say it's more about compensating for the damaged/destroyed neurological pathways by utilizing the fully functional pathways. Can a damaged pathway ever be restored though? Anyway, that last part of your comment reminded me of the movie Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind lol.
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    May 18, 2014 6:37 PM GMT
    BP201 saidOop, yes. Offsets.
    That article you just posted was a good read. Definitely more detailed than I initially thought. I just knew my former dance instructor used to hold classes for senior citizens for this very reason. He'd teach them new choreography every week or month or whatever the case. (Which makes me wonder if freestyle dance has the same effect compared to choreographed dance) It kept them busy in more ways than one, plus it's a good exercise (which goes against this very thread).. Most of them were also lonely, which makes them more prone to the disease, so the class was very important to them.
    You seem a lot more familiar with the in and outs of the disease(s), but I think you're right when you say it's more about compensating for the damaged/destroyed neurological pathways by utilizing the fully functional pathways. Can a damaged pathway ever be restored though? Anyway, that last part of your comment reminded me of the movie Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind lol.


    Not familiar with movie. Just youtubed some excerpts, looks good.

    Your instructor was correct and it sounds like he did a real nice job with that.

    But yeah, I'm all too familiar with what otherwise would not have been an experience of my choosing. I'm not familiar with dance so I don't know if a more self-created freestyle (I presume my description there fits) would produce more neurons than learning steps created by others. I suppose if the dance originated freestyle but then was repeatable, that would, otherwise maybe the other. But that's entirely speculation for fun and games.

    Mom did her best to keep active, socializing was important to her and us and keeping her body active was important which we handled with her doing laps with me (well, I'd have the lifeguards keep an eye on her--we swam at the hall of fame, me for decades and her for many years, so they were aware of our situation).

    As far as I understand it, damaged neurons are gone along with the information they contain which was not already shared with other neurons. New neurons can be created, thus the plasticity. Keep in mind that the pathways are the neurons themselves connecting to each other through their I think it's the synapses where information is relayed one to the other.

    So even if science get to a point where they can stop and even reverse dementia, which we'll likely see one day (hurry guys hurry), information lost is lost but can be relearned. With some experiencing dementia, much of the personality is lost. That happened to one of my friends with her mom, brutal on my friend. But others, like my mom, retain their personalities. In that sense then, even if information is lost, when again restored, given the ability to stop the disease and regenerate neurons, I'd think the person would again arrange that now new info pretty much as it had been, guided by an intact personality. I guess that could be studied in people with amnesia: do they become again who they were.

    My mother's personality was so still intact even at the very end that she still smiled the biggest smile for the entire visit of her grandchildren while being able to then get serious with me to express her real condition when they'd left us alone together. She never would have shown her grandchildren her pain without dementia and she also kept it from them while she hardly had any brain left so that their impression today is that she did not suffer. It was incredible to witness that. Even while suffering dementia, always a lady.