Being Gay And Naive

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    May 27, 2014 5:08 AM GMT
    Hey guys, I think I should start by saying I'm 23 years old and I've only ever been in one intimate relationship which lasted 3-5 months, and I have an ongoing issue, which I'm hoping -someone-, -somewhere- can relate to.

    I never dated once in high school. I never dated once before my previous relationship 2.5 years ago, nor had I any intimate contact whatsoever.
    What this has done to me is greatly crippled my chances at ever being happy in a relationship, for a number of reasons.

    1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically


    Now, my biggest hurdle in ever finding a date or long-term relationship is the fact that I'm WAY MORE NAIVE than anyone out there. Anyone. This took me some time to realize, but the majority of gay men at least dated girls in high school. Most if not all have a pretty clear picture of what they want, whereas I am completely clueless, or lost.

    I wonder if there's anyone out there with the same issue -- did you overcome naivety somehow, or am I over thinking this? Are people rejecting me because I look like Quasimoto?
    Thanks in advance.
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    May 27, 2014 5:15 AM GMT


    lol, me at 25.

    "1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically"

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    May 27, 2014 5:16 AM GMT
    I suppose that's assuaging to know. At least that's what I want to believe. I doubt that you were that naive though.
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    May 27, 2014 5:20 AM GMT
    Ajjax saidI suppose that's assuaging to know. At least that's what I want to believe. I doubt that you were that naive though.


    LOL, I was so naive you'd bethinking, holy deedle damn, a disney movie.

    btw, I'm to this day accused of being very naive.
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    May 27, 2014 5:25 AM GMT
    Now then, lessons in life 112 section 3 paragraph six:

    '1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically'

    Congratulations, you're normal; you're questioning. icon_wink.gif

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    May 27, 2014 5:30 AM GMT
    meninlove said Now then, lessons in life 112 section 3 paragraph six:

    '1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically'

    Congratulations, you're normal; you're questioning. icon_wink.gif


    Its not that normal to be terrible in bed at 21. What I do think though, is that half of that stuff is in your head. How do you know youre bad in bed? Do you really dont know what you want? Why so insecure about your looks if you look just fine. All this stuff is mental stuff, but not the truth, I mean its in you to change that.
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    May 27, 2014 5:40 AM GMT
    David3K said
    meninlove said Now then, lessons in life 112 section 3 paragraph six:

    '1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically'

    Congratulations, you're normal; you're questioning. icon_wink.gif


    Its not that normal to be terrible in bed at 21.


    Sure it is, people are more varied than you think.
    He thinks he'd bad, but likely he isn't, as I think he's basing his opinion of himself on experiences, which there hasn't been much of.
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    May 27, 2014 5:50 AM GMT
    meninlove said
    Sure it is, people are more varied than you think.
    He thinks he'd bad, but likely he isn't, as I think he's basing his opinion of himself on experiences, which there hasn't been much of.

    Read a few words on my post and that's exactly what I was saying. All his assumptions come from his mind.
  • ricnob

    Posts: 33

    May 27, 2014 6:02 AM GMT
    Just go with the flow. Let things happen as they unfold... meet people, have fun with them and if anything deeper happens - let it go, without anxiety and without fear. Be who you are. If you 'pretend to be' something else (in bed or anywhere else) you will achieve nothing, and you will not enjoy it.
    All of us were naive and a little bit stupid and for sure inexperienced. To be frank, i was very much like you when i was 20 or so. Now, i am not a porn star but i get what i want and for sure i enjoy. How to do it? Just be confident in yourself and your personal values. Sooner or later people (and especially 'the one') will notice that. In the meantime, just be patient and enjoy all people around you... by doing so you'll become great with guys too - at that point being good in bed will be just natural...
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    May 27, 2014 10:39 AM GMT
    Is it not better to be a bit naive as opposed to being a cynic?
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    May 27, 2014 3:24 PM GMT
    as you get older, at some point, every small bit of nativity leaves you. If your careful you can replace it with kindness and understanding.
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    May 27, 2014 5:59 PM GMT
    1- "I have no idea what I want" Do you think anyone ever knows what they want? This is kind of a "trial and error" type of thing; you kind of have to date people to figure out what works for you and what doesn't.

    2- "I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested" You won't need to know; when you meet the right person, it'll all come naturally (and uncontrollably).

    3- "Kind of terrible in bed" This, I can't help you with. Another 'trial and error' type of situation and you'll either sink or swim (pun intended).

    4- "Unsure of basic social cues" You will learn. A good place to start is by making some other gay friends - or friends in general. This will at least give you an idea of how 'things' work. Finding a friend to relate to, talk to, get suggestions from, etc. is really a huge relief. As helpful as RJ can be, sometimes you need a friend who knows you best to help you out or give you the right push.

    5- "Unsure of self, physically" Why? What really helped me with self-confidence is going to the gym regularly and working out. That isn't what you need to do necessarily, but think of things that will make you feel better about yourself - and (this part is important) do them.

    To me, your concerns don't sound like anything out of the ordinary for a 23 year old. My immediate response to being "gay and naive" is to get out there! Stop being so intimidated by it all, there is only one way to truly learn.

    You will have your good experiences and your bad. You will be rejected and you will fall. That's simply just part of the nature of it all and it's nothing a few martini's can't fix.

    Goodluck and happy hunting!
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    May 27, 2014 6:08 PM GMT
    That makes sense, I guess. Though not really encouraging. icon_neutral.gif
    I think I'm kind of fucked because I'm developmentally so far behind everyone else, but at the same time I don't want to just sleep around.
    People continually tell me to "get myself out there" though I have no idea what that entails. I am going to school, for welding though, but I highly doubt there are any gay people in that class.

    All I can think of would be to show up at "gay events" in Toronto but it just seems weird for me to show up by myself. It seems weird to me to go to a bar by myself and sit by myself. I don't know. I guess that's why I'm here -- because it's somehow LESS awkward than sitting in a dingy gay bar by myself.
  • mybud

    Posts: 11837

    May 27, 2014 7:50 PM GMT
    I think you're taking the gay and naive thing a little too seriously. Most gay guys don't know what they want...Most know what makes them feel good sexually, but are inept in asking what their partners sexual needs entail. You're 23 and new to all this..Be honest with yourself and others. Some will understand...Most will move on...Gravitate towards those who understand.
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    May 27, 2014 8:38 PM GMT
    Ajjax saidThat makes sense, I guess. Though not really encouraging. icon_neutral.gif
    I think I'm kind of fucked because I'm developmentally so far behind everyone else, but at the same time I don't want to just sleep around.


    No one is telling you that you have to sleep around. Then again, the only way to get better in bed is to... well, get better in bed.


    Ajjax saidPeople continually tell me to "get myself out there" though I have no idea what that entails. I am going to school, for welding though, but I highly doubt there are any gay people in that class.


    Have you talked to any people in that class? Have you tried reaching out to people/making friends? Have you looked online to meet/make friends? Have you been to any social gatherings lately? Have you joined any clubs or activities? Have you been out to a gay bar? "Getting out there" means just that, getting out of your bedroom, off of your computer and into a social atmosphere. Immerse yourself. Meet people. Find others with common/similiar interests and introduce yourself.

    Ajjax saidAll I can think of would be to show up at "gay events" in Toronto but it just seems weird for me to show up by myself. It seems weird to me to go to a bar by myself and sit by myself. I don't know. I guess that's why I'm here -- because it's somehow LESS awkward than sitting in a dingy gay bar by myself.


    The word "dingy" in that last sentence is your problem. It's a certain stigma around gay bars/clubs/atmospheres - that these places are somehow all bathhouses or somehow otherwise incompetent. I've probably been to over 20-30 gay bars/clubs/etc. and I have "hooked-up" in absolutely none of them. I've met a great number of people from some of them, a few of which I have remained friends with and/or further expanded my social circle.

    If you go into them with a sour attitude, you're going to get a pretty sour result. Otherwise, they can be what you make of them and sometimes even end up surprising you. You don't have to frequent them but don't rule them out all together just because you don't know what to expect or hearsay/stigma lead you to believe otherwise. I've never been to a gay club/bar/etc. in Toronto but I doubt they're all dingy by default; there's got to be at least one that other like-minded guys happen to attend on any given night.

    Find a friend somewhere to go to events, bars, clubs, parties, social gatherings, etc. with if you're worried about going alone. It shouldn't be extremely difficult to find someone online and tell them that you're new to it all.

    You really can't be shy and expect the world to come find you; it is out there, you have to go to it. RJ is great because it is less awkward than going out to meet and socialize with people in real life and there is a certain amount of anonymity online. When the reality of it is, going out to meet people in real life is a lot less awkward when you actually do it and gain some social experience.
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    May 27, 2014 8:49 PM GMT
    Ehhh ehhhh

    Wishes for convenient answer

    This'll get better don't worry. Maybe just don't worry so much... I dated a lot more guys when I wasn't thinking those thoughts..
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    May 27, 2014 11:01 PM GMT
    Ajjax said
    1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically


    Keeping content, updating semantic field:

    1 : My life is in front of me, I make my choice one by one, cross road after cross road.

    2 : I don't have pre conceived recipes for intimacy and relationship, every person is a different experience.

    3 : It's important for me to satisfy my partner sexually, not just to get off. I will learn all I can to make him happy in bed.

    4 : I'm new to the gay community, and not a pack animal, so still learning to decipher the rules.

    5 : I didn't date enough to know if my look is attractive or not to others, wish I knew ;)


    Naive and fresh makes you a perfect target for predators, but cynic and burned makes you a perfect candidate for emotional loneliness.

    Stay yourself, find your own path, cherish all your experiences, good and bad.

    When you try something new and fail, you learn something. When you don't try, your learn nothing.
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    May 28, 2014 1:03 AM GMT
    Ajjax saidThat makes sense, I guess. Though not really encouraging. icon_neutral.gif
    I think I'm kind of fucked because I'm developmentally so far behind everyone else, but at the same time I don't want to just sleep around.
    People continually tell me to "get myself out there" though I have no idea what that entails. I am going to school, for welding though, but I highly doubt there are any gay people in that class.

    All I can think of would be to show up at "gay events" in Toronto but it just seems weird for me to show up by myself. It seems weird to me to go to a bar by myself and sit by myself. I don't know. I guess that's why I'm here -- because it's somehow LESS awkward than sitting in a dingy gay bar by myself.


    You are only 23; you are not "fucked". Don't be so hard on yourself.

    Maybe you don't have tons of experience, but how do you know for a fact that you are "so far behind everyone else"? I somehow doubt this is so. Don't be so hard on yourself.

    Going to events or bars by yourself is ok; people do it all the time. But telling yourself it is "weird" will not help you.

    It sounds as if you are basically ok, but frequently have self-doubts and a negative self view which are hampering your growth. You probably want to address them head on rather than continuing to tell yourself you are "fucked" etc. or hoping they somehow go away on their own. Until you do so, relating well to yourself and others will be hard. It will hard to be happy.

    You might benefit from counseling or therapy.
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    May 28, 2014 1:07 AM GMT
    minox said
    Ajjax said
    1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically


    Keeping content, updating semantic field:

    1 : My life is in front of me, I make my choice one by one, cross road after cross road.

    2 : I don't have pre conceived recipes for intimacy and relationship, every person is a different experience.

    3 : It's important for me to satisfy my partner sexually, not just to get off. I will learn all I can to make him happy in bed.

    4 : I'm new to the gay community, and not a pack animal, so still learning to decipher the rules.

    5 : I didn't date enough to know if my look is attractive or not to others, wish I knew ;)




    Well said! There's a big difference between the original sentiments and the positive re-phrasing. Without some sense of optimism, it is hard to get out of a rut.
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    May 28, 2014 3:25 AM GMT
    The only way to change this is to gain experience, everyone is naive to some extent, until they actually gain experience. 23 is an age where you don't really know exactly what you want and it takes exploration to eventually figure that out.
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    May 28, 2014 4:31 AM GMT
    Ajjax said1- I have no idea what I want
    2- I have no idea how to be intimate or emotionally invested
    3- Kind of terrible in bed
    4- Unsure of basic social cues
    5-Unsure of self, physically
    Welcome to the majority of the world, regardless of gender or sexual orientation. icon_wink.gif
  • LEANDRO_NJ

    Posts: 1116

    May 28, 2014 5:20 AM GMT

    Usually a naive person is so because they have no malice in their hearts, and not necessarily because they have no clue of what is going on. As for me I always give people the benefit of the doubt! I don't judge a book by its cover, as first impressions can be very deceiving.

    Having high expectations is the number one mistake most people make when meeting someone for the first time. The second mistake is at not being yourself so as to impress your date, and the worst mistake of all is getting to know your date's dick head before the head that is holding their brain. Oh and one more thing, sex alone is highly over rated! physical attraction WITH an emotional bond is very highly pleasurable.

    I think the OP is being to hard on himself! not only is he good looking, but I have the feeling he has a good heart. In my humble opinion it is better to be naive then being a cynic!
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    May 28, 2014 12:15 PM GMT
    Ajjax said All I can think of would be to show up at "gay events" in Toronto but it just seems weird for me to show up by myself. It seems weird to me to go to a bar by myself and sit by myself.

    How do you think most of us learned how to make our way through gay life?
    With very few exceptions, we started out like you - "well I guess I'm gay but I don't know any gay guys or how to meet them or what to do with them, and why would anyone want to be with me?"
    You have to find the answers to these questions by experience. if that means going to a bar or an event by yourself, of course it's awkward at first but that's the price of learning anything new.
    It will take time and you will make mistakes and have unpleasant moments. In a way, just like learning welding, except you will have far more fun at the end.
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    May 28, 2014 6:43 PM GMT
    Well thanks guys, it's good to know everyone was in the same boat, when I think about taking that train in Toronto I just feel kind of terrified, I think I should heed the man's advice above and get some therapy, etc. I've had some bad experiences in Toronto and I think that's part of it. Thanks everyone.

  • May 28, 2014 10:34 PM GMT
    I don't think you're the only guy.

    I've never dated anyone in high school and for prom, I just took a girl who I thought I had a crush on, but really I found her better as a friend. I don't even know what a relationship is like because I've never made it official with any guy.

    However, I realize that those who want me I don't find interesting, and those I want are never swayed by my charms. And yeah, I'm pretty naive in thinking that I'll get a 'happily ever after'. The truth is probably that you're not ready for a relationship if you can't:

    1. Love yourself
    2. Wait for the right one to come in
    3. Have a little fun before you give your life up for another
    4. Stop looking for it and let it happen.

    I'm having trouble with 1, 3, and 4