Ethical dilemmas

  • 1AlanZSky

    Posts: 1505

    May 28, 2014 1:56 PM GMT
    Saving another life to kill another person

    It is wrong to kill another person. Absolutely wrong. So killing another person to save another is just as wrong. But what about two people? There was an episode on Star Trek Voyager where two people merged into one. It was a transporter accident. Neelix and Tuvok were merged together and formed a new person Tuvix. In the episode they tried to find a way to separate them. Over time Tuvix became an individual. They then found a way to separate them, but the crew got to know Tuvix and he became a member of the crew. The Captain decided to bring back Tuvok and Neelix, despite the Doctor not carrying out the procedure.

    Would you return Tuvix back to his original state, with Tuvok and Neelix? If you did, that would be murder because you are killing one life to save two people?

    This is my view. If the captain did nothing, it would have been murdering two people anyway. It is a No-Win situation. Suppose the technology was 100% fine it would work, that both people could be separated, then failure to do something would have been murdering two people because they could be saved but nothing was done about it. It isn't a numbers game. It is not only correcting a transporter malfunction, but it is returning them to their original forms because both lives had been lost. Tuvix was created at the expense of two lives and that was "murder" as well.

    What would you have done?
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    May 28, 2014 2:15 PM GMT
    If i am right there is a similar theme in a film called The Fly, long story short he is creating a transportation device and a fly gets in it and he slowly trans forms into the fly be it his human body and the flys head and the flys body and his head so one person in the end kills the human body part as requested by the person himself but another says thats murder, so the person kills at a request the fly body but man head, but thats also human murder aint it ???
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    May 28, 2014 2:31 PM GMT
    ethics is man make thing, not naturally occurring.
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    May 28, 2014 2:33 PM GMT
    Hmm...
    First of all I don't consider it as a murder bcoz even if a person has been thought to be dead he's dead only physically. In other words their consciousness didn't died from the accident!

    Second thing is... After unifying into Tuvix they both are still present but act as one! Collective consciousness state. More like an individual and a nation or a community (collection of individuals) where the final decision is an unified opinion.

    Thirdly... Just like a nation can be broken down into individuals, Tuvix can be broken into two! But will only have different identity. Like looking at a ground from the horizon instead of on a mountain.

    Fourthly... It's just an imaginary scenario. it won't happen in real life. Or at least for some future.

    Fifthly... Whenever I come across an ethical dilemma like this one... The first thing I would ask myself is 'how likely will this happen in real life?' If it's very unlikely... I don't mind if I don't find any answers.
    If it's very likely... I'll just keep on thinking about it even after I get a satisfied answer. Bcoz when the situation takes place truly in real life, I can still be wrong at the last moment. The rational and ethical actions we decide in the moment varies according to time, place, people etc.

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    May 28, 2014 2:36 PM GMT
    Harry7785 saidHmm...
    First of all I don't consider it as a murder bcoz even if a person has been thought to be dead he's dead only physically. In other words their consciousness didn't died from the accident!

    Second thing is... After unifying into Tuvix they both are still present but act as one! Collective consciousness state. More like an individual and a nation or a community (collection of individuals) where the final decision is an unified opinion.

    Thirdly... Just like a nation can be broken down into individuals, Tuvix can be broken into two! But will only have different identity. Like looking at a ground from the horizon instead of on a mountain.

    Fourthly... It's just an imaginary scenario it won't happen in real life.



    I sort of agree. I think the only time it's appropriate to kill someone is when they use "becoz" in a sentence. icon_surprised.gif
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    May 28, 2014 2:38 PM GMT
    Harry7785 said

    Fourthly... It's just an imaginary scenario it won't happen in real life.




    No shit icon_rolleyes.gif
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    May 28, 2014 2:42 PM GMT
    Scruffypup said
    Harry7785 said


    I sort of agree. I think the only time it's appropriate to kill someone is when they use "becoz" in a sentence. icon_surprised.gif

    What can I do? Ha ha
    I'm using Mobile, I'm helpless.
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    May 28, 2014 2:43 PM GMT
    kevex said
    Harry7785 said

    Fourthly... It's just an imaginary scenario it won't happen in real life.

    No shit icon_rolleyes.gif

    Indeed it's not shit! icon_razz.gif
  • creature

    Posts: 5197

    May 28, 2014 2:45 PM GMT
    I would have no problem "killing" Tuvix, and if he knows his origins, hopefully he would understand.

    @kevex - enough.
  • 1AlanZSky

    Posts: 1505

    May 28, 2014 2:47 PM GMT
    Dennis89 saidIf i am right there is a similar theme in a film called The Fly, long story short he is creating a transportation device and a fly gets in it and he slowly trans forms into the fly be it his human body and the flys head and the flys body and his head so one person in the end kills the human body part as requested by the person himself but another says thats murder, so the person kills at a request the fly body but man head, but thats also human murder aint it ???


    Well, the fly was harming other people, wasn't it? He asked to be killed so it wasn't really murder. It was assisted suicide.
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    May 28, 2014 2:53 PM GMT
    Does Tuvix get to have a say in any of this?
  • 1AlanZSky

    Posts: 1505

    May 28, 2014 2:54 PM GMT
    Harry7785 saidHmm...
    First of all I don't consider it as a murder bcoz even if a person has been thought to be dead he's dead only physically. In other words their consciousness didn't died from the accident!

    Second thing is... After unifying into Tuvix they both are still present but act as one! Collective consciousness state. More like an individual and a nation or a community (collection of individuals) where the final decision is an unified opinion.

    Thirdly... Just like a nation can be broken down into individuals, Tuvix can be broken into two! But will only have different identity. Like looking at a ground from the horizon instead of on a mountain.

    Fourthly... It's just an imaginary scenario. it won't happen in real life. Or at least for some future.

    Fifthly... Whenever I come across an ethical dilemma like this one... The first thing I would ask myself is 'how likely will this happen in real life?' If it's very unlikely... I don't mind if I don't find any answers.
    If it's very likely... I'll just keep on thinking about it even after I get a satisfied answer. Bcoz when the situation takes place truly in real life, I can still be wrong at the last moment. The rational and ethical actions we decide in the moment varies according to time, place, people etc.



    Interesting.

    This excerpt is interesting. From TNG The Measure of a Man.

  • 1AlanZSky

    Posts: 1505

    May 28, 2014 2:57 PM GMT
    bon_pan saidDoes Tuvix get to have a say in any of this?


    What about Tuvok and Neelix? They have a voice too. Tuvix have a voice too, but he exists because there is no Neelix and no Tuvok. Effectively his existence is because of the deaths of Neelix and Tuvok.
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    May 28, 2014 2:58 PM GMT
    Here's another.
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    May 28, 2014 3:00 PM GMT
    1AlanZSky said
    bon_pan saidDoes Tuvix get to have a say in any of this?


    What about Tuvok and Neelix? They have a voice too. Tuvix have a voice too, but he exists because there is no Neelix and no Tuvok. Effectively his existence is because of the deaths of Neelix and Tuvok.


    But Tuvix is Tuvok and Neelix. If you pour two 12oz beers into a 24oz glass is it one beer or two?
  • 1AlanZSky

    Posts: 1505

    May 28, 2014 3:07 PM GMT
    bon_pan said
    1AlanZSky said
    bon_pan saidDoes Tuvix get to have a say in any of this?


    What about Tuvok and Neelix? They have a voice too. Tuvix have a voice too, but he exists because there is no Neelix and no Tuvok. Effectively his existence is because of the deaths of Neelix and Tuvok.


    But Tuvix is Tuvok and Neelix. If you pour two 12oz beers into a 24oz glass is it one beer or two?


    That is different. Two lives were lost so one was created. There is one physical body as opposed to two people.