Largest Florida Gay Rights Group Endorses Charlie Crist for Governor

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    Jun 13, 2014 12:01 PM GMT
    Equality Florida officials made the announcement at a visitors center for gays and lesbians in Miami Beach, citing Crist's current support for same-sex marriage and ongoing legal efforts to overturn the state's ban on the unions. The Human Rights Campaign, the nation's largest gay rights group, also endorsed Crist.

    [My partner & I are members of both organizations]

    Republican Gov. Rick Scott has said he supports the state's constitutional amendment defining marriage as between a man and a woman... The matter could become a wedge issue for Democrats to wield in Florida, where public opinion has shifted significantly since voters approved a constitutional ban on gay marriage in 2008.

    http://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/Largest-Florida-Gay-Rights-Group-Endorses-Crist-262965121.html?partner=nbcnews
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    Jun 13, 2014 12:07 PM GMT
    Expediency at the loss of integrity.
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    Jun 13, 2014 12:21 PM GMT
    theantijock saidExpediency at the loss of integrity.

    Anyone would be better than Republican Rick Scott, who has been a disaster for Florida. Crist is the only candidate likely to win against him. The other Democratic contender, Nan Rich, has better pro-gay credentials than Crist, but she won't defeat Scott.

    Yes, expediency, also known as political reality. You try to place your money on a winning horse, not a loser. A Crist who opposed gay marriage but now supports it is better than a Scott who's still committed to repressing all gay civil rights in this State, not just marriage.

    If Equality Florida and HRC are comfortable supporting Crist that's good enough for me.
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    Jun 13, 2014 2:58 PM GMT
    This is not a life or death situation where sacrificing integrity might have some justification to live to fight another day.

    This is a war, hard fought since Stonewall, which will be won eventually and likely by the courts even if this particular political battle is lost.

    This scumbag supported a constitutional amendment violating our humanity. He is a war criminal. He can go fuck himself into eternity.

    His supporters lose both their integrity and my respect.
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    Jun 13, 2014 3:18 PM GMT
    theantijock saidThis is not a life or death situation where sacrificing integrity might have some justification to live to fight another day.

    This is a war, hard fought since Stonewall, which will be won eventually and likely by the courts even if this particular political battle is lost.

    This scumbag supported a constitutional amendment violating our humanity. He is a war criminal. He can go fuck himself into eternity.

    His supporters lose both their integrity and my respect.

    Sorry you feel that way. I take a more practical and military tactical view of these things. At the end of the day, all that matters is who won. I'll compromise my soul to get what I want. I was taught to win at all costs, as all soldiers are, save for violating the law.

    I'd rather not spend another term under Governor Scott, as he continues to institutionalize and engrain gay hatred & prejudice in our Florida laws. Laws that will be more difficult to rescind than they were to enact. The sooner Scott is gone the better.

    Yes, Crist was Governor when that constitutional amendment was passed. Passed by the voters of Florida, not Crist, brought to the ballot by the Republican majority in the Tallahassee State Legislature.

    I'm not sure a pro-gay Governor could have stopped it. So Crist saw the political handwriting on the wall and endorsed it. Just like Bill Clinton had to do with the veto-proof DOMA, in order to pass other essential legislation he needed to get through a Republican Congress.

    I understand your objections, but that isn't how politics works. The problem, like in other States and the US Congress, isn't always the Governors or the President, but Republican legislators. Either in the majority, or a minority willing to use procedural devices, to force their bullying, oppressive will. I think that's where you should be focused, not on a guy who has a chance to replace that Fascist idiot Scott.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jun 13, 2014 3:27 PM GMT
    no wonder so many military vets are bat shit crazy
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    Jun 13, 2014 3:41 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidno wonder so many military vets are bat shit crazy

    Have you ever worn the uniform of your country, that you feel entitled to criticize veterans? What is your own experience base regarding veterans?

    But please tell us how I am "bat shit crazy"? I was relating the tactics of the combatant. Or, the tactics of the corporate executive, or the politician, or the trial attorney, or the police officer, or the firefighter, or the first responder, etc. You fight to win, not to lose, that is your mission & purpose. Or do you want your military defenders to cut & run, as the Iraqi military is doing as we speak?

    I find your remarks offensive to veterans. Both to RealJock members and elsewhere. I hope you will reconsider & retract them.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jun 13, 2014 3:50 PM GMT
    ^^

    oh right
    "win at all costs"
    "compromise my soul"
    the ends justify the means
    etc

    really?

    I find that offfensive
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    Jun 13, 2014 3:51 PM GMT
    Eternal vigilance begins before the war is won.

    Art_Deco said...I'll compromise my soul to get what I want. I was taught to win at all costs, as all soldiers are, save for violating the law...


    A) ewww
    B) he violated humanity, the highest law

    Following a weak-minded leader (and not that this schmuck's a leader, as you don't lead by following the crowd) doesn't build strength even if that particular battle is luckily won.

    You might gain what seems a victory though real victory patience would have awarded, but you lose your strength and you lose your soul. Your celebration a pretention of no substance.

    http://www.politifact.com/florida/statements/2014/feb/07/charlie-crist/he-changed-his-stance-gay-marriage-charlie-crist-s/
    Before he changed his stance on gay marriage, Charlie Crist says he always supported civil unions... Crist sacrified his support for civil unions by voting for an anti-gay-marriage amendment that could have also banned civil unions. As the amendment headed toward the ballot, news stories often quoted experts who said civil unions could be at risk if the amendment were to pass. That supposition hasn’t been tested, since a statewide law on civil unions hasn’t passed. But while Crist was clearly conflicted about the amendment -- he didn’t campaign for it and he urged the Republican Party of Florida not to spend money on it -- he ultimately did say that he voted for it.

    On balance, we rate this claim Mostly False.

    rulings%2Ftom-mostlyfalse.gif
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    Jun 13, 2014 3:54 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    oh right
    "win at all costs"
    "compromise my soul"
    the ends justify the means
    etc

    really?

    I find that offfensive


    I don't find it offensive.

    I find it vomitous.
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    Jun 13, 2014 4:03 PM GMT
    theantijock saidEternal vigilance begins before the war is won.

    Art_Deco said...I'll compromise my soul to get what I want. I was taught to win at all costs, as all soldiers are, save for violating the law...


    A) ewww
    B) he violated humanity, the highest law

    Following a weak-minded leader (and not that this schmuck's a leader, as you don't lead by following the crowd) doesn't build strength even if that particular battle is luckily won.

    You might gain what seems a victory though real victory patience would have awarded, but you lose your strength and you lose your soul. Your celebration a pretention of no substance.

    And so your response is to support homophobic Rick Scott. Or to support no one, which is also to support homophobic Rick Scott.

    The gay community thanks you for your non-support. icon_razz.gif
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    Jun 13, 2014 4:12 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    oh right
    "win at all costs"
    "compromise my soul"
    the ends justify the means
    etc

    really?

    I find that offfensive

    Well, I'll break off at this point. You have a history of gratuitously personally attacking gay guys here. I don't know what your agenda or purpose is, but reasoning with you serves no purpose. You are simply a troublemaker, who likes to stir up shit.

    Usually we see this more with 20-something kids, just getting their late-adolescent giggles, but at your (claimed) 53 it's much more rare, if not disturbing at your age, and presumed maturity.
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    Jun 13, 2014 4:13 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidAnd so your response is to support homophobic Rick Scott. Or to support no one, which is also to support homophobic Rick Scott.

    The gay community thanks you for your non-support. icon_razz.gif


    Oh go fuck yourself.

    No, asshole (derogation justified by you putting words to me that I did not say). I never said I support that other douchebag. And my not voting for a criminal is not me throwing my vote away. It is me maintaining the integrity of my ballot. Fuck you.

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    Jun 13, 2014 4:47 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    Art_Deco saidAnd so your response is to support homophobic Rick Scott. Or to support no one, which is also to support homophobic Rick Scott.

    The gay community thanks you for your non-support. icon_razz.gif

    Oh go fuck yourself.

    No, asshole (derogation justified by you putting words to me that I did not say). I never said I support that other douchebag. And my not voting for a criminal is not me throwing my vote away. It is me maintaining the integrity of my ballot. Fuck you.

    To which criminal are you referring? Rick Scott, the HMO head who bilked money from the Medicare system?

    But you still haven't answered which candidate for Florida Governor you would support. You've told us you won't support Charlie Chris, in an irrational fit of gay queeny outrage. Despite the negative political fallout for gays from that choice.

    So who DO you support? No one? That equates to supporting Repubican incumbent Rick Scott. Please tell us.
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    Jun 13, 2014 5:09 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said..an irrational fit of gay queeny outrage....

    Art_Deco saidI'll compromise my soul to get what I want.


    Oh I didn't realize you were hard of reading. I said GO FUCK YOURSELF.
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    Jun 13, 2014 5:46 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    Art_Deco said..an irrational fit of gay queeny outrage....

    Art_Deco saidI'll compromise my soul to get what I want.

    Oh I didn't realize you were hard of reading. I said GO FUCK YOURSELF.

    Not the first time you've said that to me. When you don't like a post you attack the person personally. But I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I try to think the best of guys here, and engage them on the merits of the argument. Until they go all queeny. Perhaps one day you will, too.
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    Jun 13, 2014 6:06 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    theantijock said
    Art_Deco said..an irrational fit of gay queeny outrage....

    Art_Deco saidI'll compromise my soul to get what I want.

    Oh I didn't realize you were hard of reading. I said GO FUCK YOURSELF.

    Not the first time you've said that to me. When you don't like a post you attack the person personally. But I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I try to think the best of guys here, and engage them on the merits of the argument. Perhaps one day you will, too.


    Yet more display of your pathetically passive-aggressive, victim mentality.

    You have not argued merits of the argument. Instead, you have ignorantly insinuated that were your crimes-against-humanity candidate to lose the race to the other douchebag, that would somehow be my fault for maintaining the integrity of my own ballot. Again. FUCK YOU for that.

    A fuck you is what you deserve for putting words to me that I did not say. A fuck you is what you deserve for attempting to be so insulting. A fuck you is what you deserve for trying to be so manipulating. A fuck you is what you deserve for trying to shrug off your own responsibility and the responsibility of the party to offer up a candidate worthy of the governor's house. You got what you deserved. Gay community deserves better. I vote for better.

    If your schmuck wins and the tides complete their turn during his term, it will not be to his credit, though steal it he will. And you will, like a monkey, laud his so-called efforts of his convenient loyalties. If he loses, the tide will turn regardless and his loss will not be my fault, but your own for voting for crap in first place.

    As to any other issues of your faulty logic, I am under no obligation to engage inanity.
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    Jun 13, 2014 6:30 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    oh right
    "win at all costs"
    "compromise my soul"
    the ends justify the means
    etc

    really?

    I find that offfensive
    Yeah, us vets are batshit crazy, and we will compromise our souls to achieve goals. It's in our nature. But one doesn't need to be military to have that mindset.

    These people compromised their souls to stand up to authority. The end justified the means.

    stonewall22.png
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    Jun 13, 2014 6:40 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    tj85016 said^^

    oh right
    "win at all costs"
    "compromise my soul"
    the ends justify the means
    etc

    really?

    I find that offfensive
    Yeah, us vets are batshit crazy, and we will compromise our souls to achieve goals. It's in our nature. But one doesn't need to be military to have that mindset.

    These people compromised their souls to stand up to authority. The end justified the means.

    stonewall22.png


    No babe. That's not compromising a soul. That's celebrating it. Big difference.

    Tj's batshit comment was unfortunately general but I made the distinction that this is not about a soldier surviving to fight another day, not a matter of life and death; rather, different standards apply because this is a matter of patience and integrity. We don't need this Crist guy. There's no reason in any world for any of us to sell our soul for guy who sold us out. Fuck him.

    A vote for Crist is an insult to Stonewall and to our soldiers there.
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    Jun 13, 2014 6:46 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    Art_Deco said
    theantijock said
    Art_Deco said..an irrational fit of gay queeny outrage....

    Art_Deco saidI'll compromise my soul to get what I want.

    Oh I didn't realize you were hard of reading. I said GO FUCK YOURSELF.

    Not the first time you've said that to me. When you don't like a post you attack the person personally. But I guess I'm a glutton for punishment. I try to think the best of guys here, and engage them on the merits of the argument. Perhaps one day you will, too.


    Yet more display of your pathetically passive-aggressive, victim mentality.

    What I outlined was a political tactic to gain for gays what we seek in Florida. What you have outlined is a hurt-ass revenge strategy that gains us nothing, and puts a Republican homophobe back as Governor.

    I will leave it to others to judge which is the more rational & realistic approach. And the one that gets the most gains for Florida gays.

    This highlights a weakness gays have politically - emotionalism.

    What I proposed instead, and which you attacked, is coldly logical political tactics. I'm more interested in results than pie-in-the-sky wishing.

    I understand your resentment of Crist. It's valid, and I agree with some of your points. But tactically we have to play the cards we've been dealt. I would rather give Crist a pass than give Scott another term. Because this is the choice we may be facing. Can we not agree on that?
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    Jun 13, 2014 6:54 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidCan we not agree on that?


    Has the soldier no honor?

    There is no agreement here. Find a better candidate or suffer the consequences of selling your soul.
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    Jun 13, 2014 7:33 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    Art_Deco saidCan we not agree on that?

    Has the soldier no honor?

    There is no agreement here. Find a better candidate or suffer the consequences of selling your soul.

    Oh, pul-leeze! Stop being such a drama queen.

    Damn thing is, I enjoy and respect your other posts here. A valued RJ veteran. I'd rather be your friend than your opponent.

    I've sold my soul to nothing. I wanna defeat the homophobe Rick Scott. I hope you do, too. Charlie Chris has the best chance. He's pledged to advance gay civil rights & marriage in Florida. If that's "selling my soul" then I plead guilty.

    Rather, I think you might examine your own soul. To see if personal injuries and agendas are clouding the bigger picture. It can never be all about YOU, but rather about US. And the long picture of what will advance gay rights.

    I think we're on the same sheet of music regarding our goals, but disconnected about strategies. You maintain a very purist position. I'm more realistic. I'll ally with former enemies if I must, if it advances our gay interests. That's the bottom line, yes?
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    Jun 13, 2014 7:50 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    paulflexes said
    tj85016 said^^

    oh right
    "win at all costs"
    "compromise my soul"
    the ends justify the means
    etc

    really?

    I find that offfensive
    Yeah, us vets are batshit crazy, and we will compromise our souls to achieve goals. It's in our nature. But one doesn't need to be military to have that mindset.

    These people compromised their souls to stand up to authority. The end justified the means.

    stonewall22.png


    No babe. That's not compromising a soul. That's celebrating it. Big difference.

    Tj's batshit comment was unfortunately general but I made the distinction that this is not about a soldier surviving to fight another day, not a matter of life and death; rather, different standards apply because this is a matter of patience and integrity. We don't need this Crist guy. There's no reason in any world for any of us to sell our soul for guy who sold us out. Fuck him.

    A vote for Crist is an insult to Stonewall and to our soldiers there.
    Yes babe. It did compromise their souls. At that point in time, they went against the religious, social and political grain to stand up for what's right. Up until then they hid behind closed doors and conformed to social norms.

    Just like when most of us were closeted, we'd talk bad about gays to prove our straightness (at least I did). In the same way, politicians try to conform to social and political norms in order to prevent their "real" opinions from becoming known, which could be career suicide. Now that the social and political norms allow for the inclusion of equal marriage rights, Crist is finally allowed to speak his mind without worrying about his career. He may have thrown us under a bus in the past, but now he wants to right that wrong. Forgiveness is an excellent character trait. You should try it sometime. icon_biggrin.gif
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    Jun 13, 2014 10:35 PM GMT
    Drama queen this:

    Art_Deco said
    I've sold my soul to nothing.

    Art_Deco saidI'll compromise my soul to get what I want.


    no take backs.

    Art_Deco said...I think you might examine your own soul. To see if personal injuries and agendas are clouding the bigger picture.


    So you are suggesting what, that I've "personal injuries and agendas" that cloud me into thinking people should act with integrity?

    Art_Deco said...I think we're on the same sheet of music regarding our goals, but disconnected about strategies. You maintain a very purist position. I'm more realistic. I'll ally with former enemies if I must, if it advances our gay interests. That's the bottom line, yes?


    No.

    You would support a guy whose pledge isn't worth crap (signed Florida4Marriage.org petition for a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage) just to hold the party line and you call me a purist?

    The purist is inflexible. That would be you, bub. I'm the guy who won't tow the party line if I see that anchor dragging. And I certainly won't tow it when the party line is dredging muck. Even on integrity, I've noted a life/death loophole which this asinine topic is too fat to fit. That's not inflexible. It is the opposite: flexible. You are the one being intransigent at the cost of your compromised soul.

    paulflexes saidYes babe. It did compromise their souls. At that point in time, they went against the religious, social and political grain to stand up for what's right. Up until then they hid behind closed doors and conformed to social norms.

    Just like when most of us were closeted, we'd talk bad about gays to prove our straightness (at least I did). In the same way, politicians try to conform to social and political norms in order to prevent their "real" opinions from becoming known, which could be career suicide. Now that the social and political norms allow for the inclusion of equal marriage rights, Crist is finally allowed to speak his mind without worrying about his career. He may have thrown us under a bus in the past, but now he wants to right that wrong. Forgiveness is an excellent character trait. You should try it sometime. icon_biggrin.gif


    Coming out of the closet never compromises soul. Only remaining there does. There may be some pain, just as there would be some pain in losing an election. But that pain is merely weakness leaving the body. The community, the party would be stronger for it. Eternal vigilance begins before the war is won.

    I never spoke a bad word about gay people, I either defended people or found a way to distract their bully from when I was a little kid. Once after my first full on sex at 16 with a guy in USVI, I became nervous and didn't want to see him again. My parents questioned why. I said "because I think he's gay". My parents threw my attitude a dirty look and said "but he's your friend." That's the very worst thing I ever said from the closet and I never repeated that mistake.

    But I can relate somewhat to closeted gay people camouflaging themselves thusly. Up to a point. We have to be able to draw some lines so we can see what the picture is. And not on an etch-a-sketch either. Life is indelible, even given forgiving.

    When he signed on the line he crossed the line. He tried to deny us our human rights into eternity. He's welcome to go to hell for just as long. Don't let that puppy dog face of his fool ya. That mongrel is a scoundrel.

    bon_pan saidWading knee deep...


    Hold that pose, I'll be right over.
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    Jun 13, 2014 10:47 PM GMT
    lol

    I just have pick up a few things at the store first...

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