Relevance

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 14, 2014 9:44 PM GMT
    In the gay community and the world around me in general I am finding it more of a challenge to see the relevance in what other people are doing and what I am doing,icon_question.gif in their respective lives.

    A vocation or a career for example is becoming more of an issue of whether you belong to a higher socioeconomic group. The indoctrination of people into these disciplines does not always take into account the well being of the individual or the betterment of society.

    People dictate and contribute to the uncertainty and uneasiness that I feel around me. How does someone feel stimulated when they do not feel welcome, or see the relevance, in what other people are doing?

    In a commercialized world that focuses more on the luxuries for people and not the necessary practicalities. What is helpful or good for me, or other people?
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    Jun 14, 2014 10:05 PM GMT
    homejames saidA vocation or a career for example is becoming more of an issue of whether you belong to a higher socioeconomic group.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    I recently quit my stressful career as a pilot to pursue a lowly career as a bicycle mechanic (still on hiatus between jobs - technically unemployed). It's something I enjoy doing, the stress level will be much lower, and the schedule will be more regular so I can have a social life around work (practically impossible as a contract, on-call pilot). And if being a bike mech becomes no longer fun, I'll quit that and do something else that's fun.

    People generally find what they're looking for, at the expense of what they're not looking for. Some look for money/status/prestige, and sacrifice happiness to do so. I look for happiness, and sacrifice money/status/prestige to do so.
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    Jun 14, 2014 10:47 PM GMT
    Wow, a lot of your baggage to unpack here.

    I suggest this book:

    0226320669.jpeg

    Chapter 6 in particular, "The Mysterious World of Trade and Money."

    You'll see that the world has always been "commercial," from the moment Caveman Thag made his first spear.
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    Jun 14, 2014 10:49 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    homejames saidA vocation or a career for example is becoming more of an issue of whether you belong to a higher socioeconomic group.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    I recently quit my stressful career as a pilot to pursue a lowly career as a bicycle mechanic (still on hiatus between jobs - technically unemployed). It's something I enjoy doing, the stress level will be much lower, and the schedule will be more regular so I can have a social life around work (practically impossible as a contract, on-call pilot). And if being a bike mech becomes no longer fun, I'll quit that and do something else that's fun.

    People generally find what they're looking for, at the expense of what they're not looking for. Some look for money/status/prestige, and sacrifice happiness to do so. I look for happiness, and sacrifice money/status/prestige to do so.


    That's too bad. Many people look for money/status/prestige/happiness - and find all four.
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    Jun 14, 2014 10:52 PM GMT
    Jack_NNJ said
    paulflexes said
    homejames saidA vocation or a career for example is becoming more of an issue of whether you belong to a higher socioeconomic group.
    Couldn't have said it better myself.

    I recently quit my stressful career as a pilot to pursue a lowly career as a bicycle mechanic (still on hiatus between jobs - technically unemployed). It's something I enjoy doing, the stress level will be much lower, and the schedule will be more regular so I can have a social life around work (practically impossible as a contract, on-call pilot). And if being a bike mech becomes no longer fun, I'll quit that and do something else that's fun.

    People generally find what they're looking for, at the expense of what they're not looking for. Some look for money/status/prestige, and sacrifice happiness to do so. I look for happiness, and sacrifice money/status/prestige to do so.


    That's too bad. Many people look for money/status/prestige/happiness - and find all four.
    I did find it. For the past 10 years I've been happy as a pilot, and the money was great. But over the past couple years my lifestyle has changed, and it is no longer compatible with the ever-changing schedule of being a contract pilot. Yeah I could go on to the airlines and have a cushy job, but that's not where my heart is (always preferred small planes) so I made the decision to put flying back to its original form as a hobby, and turn my other hobby of working on bikes into a career.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jun 15, 2014 1:02 AM GMT
    if your aspirations don't make you relatively happy and content, you're doomed from the start

    create your own group of like minded people, or at least people you can relate to/with without stress (gay, lesbian or straight)
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    Jun 15, 2014 1:10 AM GMT
    tj85016 saidif your aspirations don't make you relatively happy and content, you're doomed from the start

    create your own group of like minded people, or at least people you can relate to/with without stress (gay, lesbian or straight)


    I think one of his problems (among many) is that he insists that the rest of the world change to suit his viewpoint. But that can be easily remedied with some basic knowledge about how the world actually works.

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    Jun 15, 2014 1:11 AM GMT
    In a commercialized world that focuses more on the luxuries for people and not the necessary practicalities...

    Have you ever stopped to wonder why this is?
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jun 15, 2014 2:21 AM GMT
    I'm not certain I understand your question, homejames. Are you asking about the relevance of social roles or something more philosophical (and possibly psychological)? Are you having some sort of personal crisis, feeling alienated? What is this sense of dis-ease and uncertainty you're feeling?

    paulflexes has given a good example of someone working in one environment making a shift into something less stressful. Both jobs provide services to people. One is less stressful than the other. I suspect he'll be working more directly with people in this new environment. It is a very different situation than working in the context of corporate culture.

    So far as US society (and Western civilization in general) is concerned, it is going through tremendous and rapid changes. I can say this from the perspective of someone who has witnessed more change in my lifetime than has gone on in the previous century or two. Example: My parents were born in the early 1900s and grew up in rural, southern indiana. When they were children, automobiles were still sufficiently rare that when one drove by the school, the teacher would let them out to watch it pass. Fast-forward a half century: I'm attending high school in Florida about 30 miles south of the Kennedy Space Center. Occasionally when a Saturn was being tested, they'd let us out on the school grounds to watch the launch. And *that* was a half century ago. (No home computing, not much 'digital' anything, no cell phones, no internet.) … and this is just on the technological end of things.

    Here is what concerns *me*:

    Oe92.png

    The global demand for energy has doubled in the last 40 years. Who among us thinks that spiking energy demand is going to *naturally* level off or decline in the next half century? Who thinks we will be able to meet this increasing demand for energy? Environmental concerns aside for the moment, where is this energy going to come from?

    I believe this graph could also represent the general sense of dis-ease and uncertainty (aka "stress") that many people are feeling. For one thing because the *cost* of this energy (and therefore everything that is produced, packaged and distributed with it) is also increasing.

    It looks to me like, short of some deus ex machina invention of a new, virtually unlimited energy source that can be brought online rapidly, there is going to be a 'down side' to this escalation. Infinite growth is unsustainable in a finite environment.

    At what point does energy demand outstrip energy supply? What happens to the global economy when that point is reached? (Have we reached it already? Are we engaged in 'resource wars' even now?) How will that affect people very directly in terms of their financial options? How will *that* in turn affect people's sense of ease and security?
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    Jun 15, 2014 2:33 AM GMT
    I agree. The world is in flux and what we were raised to believe in we can't take for granted anymore. "The times are a changing."
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    Jun 15, 2014 3:15 AM GMT
    MikeW said
    Here is what concerns *me*:

    Oe92.png

    The global demand for energy has doubled in the last 40 years. Who among us thinks that spiking energy demand is going to *naturally* level off or decline in the next half century? Who thinks we will be able to meet this increasing demand for energy? Environmental concerns aside for the moment, where is this energy going to come from?


    At what point does energy demand outstrip energy supply? What happens to the global economy when that point is reached? (Have we reached it already? Are we engaged in 'resource wars' even now?) How will that affect people very directly in terms of their financial options? How will *that* in turn affect people's sense of ease and security?


    Mike - some reading which should put your mind at ease:


    th?id=HN.607992525481181575&pid=15.1

    The Bottomless Well
    Basic Books, 2005
    By Peter Huber and Mark P. Mills


    The sheer volume of talk about energy, energy prices, and energy policy on both sides of the political aisle suggests that we must know something about these subjects. But according to Peter Huber and Mark Mills, the things we "know" are mostly myths.

    They explain why demand will never go down, why most of what we think of as "energy waste" actually benefits us; why more efficient cars, engines, and bulbs will never lower demand, and why energy supply is infinite.

    In the automotive sector, gas prices matter less and less, and hybrid engines will most likely lead us to cars propelled by the coal-fired grid. As for the much-maligned power grid itself, it's the worst system we could have except for all the proposed alternatives.

    Expanding energy supplies mean higher productivity, more jobs, and a growing GDP. Across the board, energy isn't the problem, energy is the solution.

    ************************************************

    bookcover3.jpg

    Smaller Faster Lighter Denser Cheaper:
    How Innovation Keeps Proving the Catastrophists Wrong

    by Robert Bryce
    Public Affairs, 2014

    President Obama likes to call oil "yesterday's energy." But "for the vast majority of the world's population," Mr. Bryce argues, "the cheapest and most reliable forms of energy are, and will continue to be, hydrocarbons."

    Anyone who thinks that he is doing the world a favor by compelling the switch from fossil fuels to wind and solar is consigning billions of people to a life of poverty and darkness.

    The catastrophists have been wrong since the days of Thomas Malthus. It has never been more timely to embrace the innovators and businesses all over the world who are making things Smaller Faster Lighter Denser Cheaper.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 15, 2014 3:19 AM GMT
    homejames saidI agree. The world is in flux and what we were raised to believe in we can't take for granted anymore. "The times are a changing."


    The times have always "a-changed." We are not living in some unique era.
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    Jun 15, 2014 3:32 AM GMT
    Sounds like the kinds of thoughts I was pondering during what I call an "Existential Crisis".

    I had to figure out and answer the questions...

    1. Who am I?
    2. What are my values, and therefore what do I value?
    3. What is my purpose?

    It took me about two years to figure out the questions and then the answers in the order presented. At times I had to ask the questions in the negative in order to cut away, por ejemplo, "who am I NOT".

    Through this process I also gained insight on my relation to others. I learned that I have a constant diametric desire for a sense of self and a simultaneous desire for a sense of belonging in unity with others.

    I hope that some of my rambling helps you find meaning on your path along with the others with whom you share this slice of the continuum of time.

    Aloha and Be Well!
    Alan
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jun 15, 2014 3:42 AM GMT
    ^^ Good points, Alan.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Jun 15, 2014 3:44 AM GMT
    Jack_NNJ said
    homejames saidI agree. The world is in flux and what we were raised to believe in we can't take for granted anymore. "The times are a changing."


    The times have always "a-changed." We are not living in some unique era.


    I think the Pope said that when the apple fell on Newton's head lol
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jun 15, 2014 3:44 AM GMT
    homejames saidI agree. The world is in flux and what we were raised to believe in we can't take for granted anymore. "The times are a changing."

    They always are but some changes are bigger than others. What is it you feel you can no longer believe in?
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    Jun 15, 2014 4:13 AM GMT
    GAMRican saidSounds like the kinds of thoughts I was pondering during what I call an "Existential Crisis".

    I had to figure out and answer the questions...

    1. Who am I?
    2. What are my values, and therefore what do I value?
    3. What is my purpose?

    It took me about two years to figure out the questions and then the answers in the order presented. At times I had to ask the questions in the negative in order to cut away, por ejemplo, "who am I NOT".

    Through this process I also gained insight on my relation to others. I learned that I have a constant diametric desire for a sense of self and a simultaneous desire for a sense of belonging in unity with others.

    I hope that some of my rambling helps you find meaning on your path along with the others with whom you share this slice of the continuum of time.

    Aloha and Be Well!
    Alan


    An illuminating post.

    I I I I I I I I I I I

    my my my my me me

  • wild_sky360

    Posts: 1492

    Jun 15, 2014 4:30 AM GMT
    MikeW said
    The global demand for energy has doubled in the last 40 years. Who among us thinks that spiking energy demand is going to *naturally* level off or decline in the next half century? Who thinks we will be able to meet this increasing demand for energy? Environmental concerns aside for the moment, where is this energy going to come from?

    I believe this graph could also represent the general sense of dis-ease and uncertainty (aka "stress") that many people are feeling. For one thing because the *cost* of this energy (and therefore everything that is produced, packaged and distributed with it) is also increasing.

    It looks to me like, short of some deus ex machina invention of a new, virtually unlimited energy source that can be brought online rapidly, there is going to be a 'down side' to this escalation. Infinite growth is unsustainable in a finite environment.

    At what point does energy demand outstrip energy supply? What happens to the global economy when that point is reached? (Have we reached it already? Are we engaged in 'resource wars' even now?) How will that affect people very directly in terms of their financial options? How will *that* in turn affect people's sense of ease and security?


    We most certainly are fighting resource wars around the globe, both financially ala IMF / World Bank, as well as militarily in overt and covert operations. These covetous actions are not to ensure our own national needs, but to control the necessary resources of other nations under the guise of world security. Control equals power.

    There are many promising technologies for producing limitless zero point energy. They can be brought on line very quickly in a mass assembly scheme because they don't rely on remote production and long distance transmission. The new clean energy is here, but they'll never be introduced while remaining fossil fuel supplies have peaked, have ever increasing demand, and soaring prices ensure continued support of a debased US dollar system.

    The end is not near, but it will get damn expensive before any transition takes place.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 15, 2014 12:29 PM GMT
    Everything You Love You Owe To Capitalism

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    Jun 15, 2014 4:40 PM GMT
    Jack_NNJ saidEverything You Love You Owe To Capitalism
    That statement is incorrect.

    I don't owe my friends/family to capitalism.
    I don't owe nature to capitalism.
    I don't owe life to capitalism.

    Capitalism has taken nature out of its original form, modified it, mass produced it, put a price on it, marketed it to society as a "need," took that money and used it to build power and control resources, and told those who can't afford it that they should feel inferior and unhappy. If there's anything we owe to capitalism, it's our lack of humanity.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jun 15, 2014 4:59 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Jack_NNJ saidEverything You Love You Owe To Capitalism
    That statement is incorrect.

    I don't owe my friends/family to capitalism.
    I don't owe nature to capitalism.
    I don't owe life to capitalism.

    Capitalism has taken nature out of its original form, modified it, mass produced it, put a price on it, marketed it to society as a "need," took that money and used it to build power and control resources, and told those who can't afford it that they should feel inferior and unhappy. If there's anything we owe to capitalism, it's our lack of humanity.

    Thank you.

    The problem is partly semantic. If what we mean by capitalism is the means for individuals and families to produce financial security, that's one thing. If what we mean by it, however, is to give corporations the same legal status as individuals and families, perhaps what we ought to call it is what it actually is: Corporatism. Mom and pop capitalism is not corporatism and what we have in this country is corporatism, not capitalism.

    If we can not find an economic paradigm that respects and values human life and the biosphere that makes it possible, it is a failing of both human intelligence and human conscience.
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    Jun 15, 2014 11:16 PM GMT
    tj85016 said
    Jack_NNJ said
    homejames saidI agree. The world is in flux and what we were raised to believe in we can't take for granted anymore. "The times are a changing."


    The times have always "a-changed." We are not living in some unique era.


    I think the Pope said that when the apple fell on Newton's head lol


    Nah. The popes of Newton's day had other things to worry about - namely their health, as they kept dropping like flies.
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    Jun 15, 2014 11:31 PM GMT
    MikeW said
    paulflexes said
    Jack_NNJ saidEverything You Love You Owe To Capitalism
    That statement is incorrect.

    I don't owe my friends/family to capitalism.
    I don't owe nature to capitalism.
    I don't owe life to capitalism.

    Capitalism has taken nature out of its original form, modified it, mass produced it, put a price on it, marketed it to society as a "need," took that money and used it to build power and control resources, and told those who can't afford it that they should feel inferior and unhappy. If there's anything we owe to capitalism, it's our lack of humanity.

    Thank you.

    The problem is partly semantic. If what we mean by capitalism is the means for individuals and families to produce financial security, that's one thing. If what we mean by it, however, is to give corporations the same legal status as individuals and families, perhaps what we ought to call it is what it actually is: Corporatism. Mom and pop capitalism is not corporatism and what we have in this country is corporatism, not capitalism.

    If we can not find an economic paradigm that respects and values human life and the biosphere that makes it possible, it is a failing of both human intelligence and human conscience.


    Most of this is incorrect.

    The present legal status of corporations is not what yields "corporatism."

    In conferring "personhood" on corporations (which has been the practice for centuries now), such organizations were "given" nothing. Rights of incorporation benefit people first. Without the advantage of incorporation, very few would be willing to go into business in the first place.

    [See also contract law; insurance.]

    Contrary to popular (and idiotic) opinion, the Citizens United decision did not determine that "corporations are people." The established concept was cited as part of the overall decision.

    Your longing for "an economic paradigm that respects and values human life" is so much muddle-headed fallacy. All such utopianism would result a world in which economic decisions are taken out of the hands of the people most affected by and interested in them, and given over to others who have neither the ability nor the inclination to discover and appreciate the effects their decisions will have on the very people they believe they are "helping" - such a world would be brutish, intolerable, and anti-human.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jun 15, 2014 11:45 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    Jack_NNJ saidEverything You Love You Owe To Capitalism
    That statement is incorrect.

    I don't owe my friends/family to capitalism.
    I don't owe nature to capitalism.
    I don't owe life to capitalism.

    Capitalism has taken nature out of its original form, modified it, mass produced it, put a price on it, marketed it to society as a "need," took that money and used it to build power and control resources, and told those who can't afford it that they should feel inferior and unhappy. If there's anything we owe to capitalism, it's our lack of humanity.


    You obviously didn't listen to the lecture.

    You are referencing Rousseau's "natural man." If you want lack of humanity, check the history of pre-capitalist societies. It was the rise of capitalism that helped us pull away from a life of pain, discomfort, and toil.

    Of course all those things still exist, but you fail to appreciate what the development of the free market has done to mitigate such misery.

    Tell me, would you rather have a crummy factory job in 2014, or a crummy factory job in 1814? Would you rather lose your crummy factory job and become unemployed in 2014, or lose your crummy factory job and become unemployed in 1814?

    Consider the king who lived in wall-to-wall swag just a few short centuries ago, and yet watched his wine freeze over in his diamond-studded goblet one especially cold winter night. That had to be a bitch.

    By contrast, the poorest of our poor can sit in front of the TV and enjoy an ice cold beer (or twelve) during the hottest days of July.

    You take much for granted, my friend. You even have the luxury of complaining about the supposed "injustice" of our present prosperous age.
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    Jun 16, 2014 1:11 AM GMT
    silver_bullet said
    Jack_NNJ said
    Most of this is incorrect.

    The present legal status of corporations is not what yields "corporatism."

    In conferring "personhood" on corporations (which has been the practice for centuries now), such organizations were "given" nothing. Rights of incorporation benefit people first. Without the advantage of incorporation, very few would be willing to go into business in the first place.

    [See also contract law; insurance.]

    Contrary to popular (and idiotic) opinion, the Citizens United decision did not determine that "corporations are people." The established concept was cited as part of the overall decision.


    For certain legal purposes the idea of a corporation being a 'person' is fine, as you point out it protects individuals from personal liability who would otherwise be discouraged from investing in business.

    However arguing corporations should be allowed to corrupt democracy with massive bribery of politicians and parties because they are exercising "a persons right to free speech" is obviously a disaster.

    corporate_logo_flag_new-500x333.jpg


    Cute flag, but I notice it omits any reference to that other gargantuan source of political money, unions.

    No AFT? NEA? SEIU? Teamsters? AFL-CIO? etc etc etc