Presbyterian Church Votes To Allow Gay Marriage

  • metta

    Posts: 39165

    Jun 19, 2014 10:07 PM GMT
    Presbyterian Church Votes To Allow Gay Marriage

    "In a monumental move, the nation's largest Presbyterian denomination voted Thursday to change its definition of marriage and allow its pastors to officiate same-sex ceremonies in states where gay marriage is legal.

    By a vote of 429-175, leaders of the 1.76 million-member Presbyterian Church (USA) voted during the biennial General Assembly in Detroit to change the denomination's Book of Order to describe marriage as being between "two people."

    The decision opens a path toward gay marriage across the denomination's 10,000 churches.

    A majority of the church's 173 regional bodies, called Presbyteries, must now approve the decision before it's official, a process that can take up to a year. But after years of failed efforts to get the church to approve gay marriages, LGBT activists and pastors said they were optimistic."

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/06/19/presbyterian-church-gay-marriage_n_5512756.html
  • metta

    Posts: 39165

    Jun 19, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
    I'm not religious...but wow...my mom grew up in England and she went to the Church of England. When she moved to California, she joined the Presbyterian Church because she felt that it was the closest to the Church of England at the time.

    The other side of my family goes to a Episcopal Church.

    I'm just amazed that both sides are now supporting marriage equality. Every state that my family lives in has legal marriage equality. I was born in England, which also has marriage equality. Pretty cool stuff! I know that we still have a lot of work to do but I feel like there is equality all around me. icon_smile.gif
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Jun 19, 2014 10:25 PM GMT
    Where does Church of England stand on it these days? I know they're fighting the African side of the Church on the subject.
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    Jun 19, 2014 10:43 PM GMT
    metta8 saidI'm not religious...but wow...my mom grew up in England and she went to the Church of England. When she moved to California, she joined the Presbyterian Church because she felt that it was the closest to the Church of England at the time.

    The other side of my family goes to a Episcopal Church.

    I'm just amazed that both sides are now supporting marriage equality. Every state that my family lives in has legal marriage equality. I was born in England, which also has marriage equality. Pretty cool stuff! I know that we still have a lot of work to do but I feel like there is equality all around me. icon_smile.gif


    Not it's gay marriage they are supporting as marriage equality would be more inclusive and not just about same sex marriage.icon_idea.gif
  • metta

    Posts: 39165

    Jun 20, 2014 12:37 AM GMT
    Destinharbor saidWhere does Church of England stand on it these days? I know they're fighting the African side of the Church on the subject.


    The Church of England is not there yet.


    Gay marriage will change the Church of England forever
    http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/damianthompson/100265463/gay-marriage-will-change-the-church-of-england-forever/
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Jun 20, 2014 2:47 AM GMT
    The broad spectrum of E parishioners support Same-Sex Marriage, which is legal in Great Britain. But the hierarchy of the church is terrified of division and of what other Anglican bodies might do or think, most notably the African churches.

    At the moment, the C of E is fighting to ban religious marriage ceremonies, no matter what church wishes to do them - Methodist, Quaker, etc. - and the issue threatens to disestablish the church, which is able to block progress because of the bishops in the House of Lords.
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    Jun 21, 2014 1:37 PM GMT
    I grew up in the Presbyterian Church. My Facebook feed is blowing up with celebratory posts. While I'm happy about this, for me personally it's way too little way too late. My atheist leanings long since overcame the positive sense of community I had growing up, which was never really available to me as an adult gay man.
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14380

    Jun 21, 2014 1:51 PM GMT
    showme saidI grew up in the Presbyterian Church. My Facebook feed is blowing up with celebratory posts. While I'm happy about this, for me personally it's way too little way too late. My atheist leanings long since overcame the positive sense of community I had growing up, which was never really available to me as an adult gay man.
    Atheist leanings, you sound like me. I am an agnostic but I am gradually shifting towards atheism. However, you could return to the church that you grew up and be accepted as a gay man. I don't have that option because I was raised as a Roman Catholic and despite the new Pope's more open minded approach, the Roman Catholic Church is still stubbornly stuck in the medieval past and shows no signs of changing its staunch anti-gay marriage positions. Yet some of the priests and bishops see nothing morally wrong with adult men having sex with underage boys. Go figure.
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    Jun 21, 2014 9:03 PM GMT
    Why stop at only allowing same-sex marriage in states where it is legal? If right is right, why acquiesce to the state? The Presbyterian Church should stand by its convictions no matter where they are located.

    But something is better than nothing.
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    Jun 21, 2014 9:17 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidWhy stop at only allowing same-sex marriage in states where it is legal? If right is right, why acquiesce to the state? The Presbyterian Church should stand by its convictions no matter where they are located.

    But something is better than nothing.



    It's a pretty big SOMETHING.

    I have to admire this church organization's leadership.

    This move says a lot about the nature of those who attend this church too. I know a lot of progressive Catholics. They will talk and talk but they will never stand up to their church to demand justice.
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    Jun 21, 2014 10:15 PM GMT
    Samintown said
    UndercoverMan saidWhy stop at only allowing same-sex marriage in states where it is legal? If right is right, why acquiesce to the state? The Presbyterian Church should stand by its convictions no matter where they are located.

    But something is better than nothing.



    It's a pretty big SOMETHING.

    I have to admire this church organization's leadership.

    This move says a lot about the nature of those who attend this church too. I know a lot of progressive Catholics. They will talk and talk but they will never stand up to their church to demand justice.


    That doesn't answer my question as to why stop at only marrying people in states where it is legal? Why not as a symbolic gesture to justice even though it wouldn't carry any legal weight?
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    Jun 21, 2014 10:20 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidI am an agnostic but I am gradually shifting towards atheism.


    Not trying to derail the topic, just a little thing I'd like to point to anyone reading: they aren't mutually exclusive. Gnosticism/Agnosticism deals with what you know, Theism/Atheism deals with what you believe. You can be an Agnostic Atheist or a Gnostic Atheist, just like you can be an Agnostic Theist or a Gnostic Theist.

    Gnostics "know", Agnostics "don't know". So if you don't believe, then you're an Atheist! If you don't believe, but aren't certain about what is true, then you're an Agnostic Atheist! Or if you're certain there is no god, then you'd be a Gnostic Atheist (popularly called 'strong' atheist or anti-theist).

    Note: It's up to the individual to label themselves however they want! However, I wanted to point out the most commonly accepted definitions of these terms in order to avoid confusion and spread information!

    ----------

    On topic however...I find it strange that churches with teachings hundreds of years old, are coincidentally receiving messages from their god, or making decisions for themselves, about whether the whole 'gay marriage' thing is acceptable by their god. If it was acceptable, wouldn't they have already known long ago? Why did their god change its mind now?
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    Jun 21, 2014 10:36 PM GMT
    " Why not as a symbolic gesture to justice even though it wouldn't carry any legal weight?"

    Good Point. I hope that will be their next step.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jun 22, 2014 8:38 PM GMT
    As more churches endorse same-sex marriage, it's important to remember that right-wing bigots who claim that "Christians support traditional marriage" ARE LYING or at the very least misleading.
    The truth of the matter is that some Christians support only opposite-sex marriage, and some Christians support marriage equality. Christians are divided on this issue, and the polling I've seen indicates that a small majority of Christians now support marriage equality. This ratio will increase as aging Conservatives die off and are replaced by progressive younger people.
    Republican homophobes try to excuse their bigotry by claiming all Christians agree with them. THEY ARE LYING.
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    Jun 22, 2014 8:47 PM GMT
    metta8 saidI'm not religious...but wow...my mom grew up in England and she went to the Church of England. When she moved to California, she joined the Presbyterian Church because she felt that it was the closest to the Church of England at the time.

    The other side of my family goes to a Episcopal Church.

    I'm just amazed that both sides are now supporting marriage equality. Every state that my family lives in has legal marriage equality. I was born in England, which also has marriage equality. Pretty cool stuff! I know that we still have a lot of work to do but I feel like there is equality all around me. icon_smile.gif

    Episcopal should be the closest to Church of England since they're both Anglican.