How International Law Will Help Our Fight for Equal Rights in Marriage

  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jun 25, 2014 1:51 AM GMT
    http://www.la2da.cl/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?dt=2014-06-24&PaginaId=26&bodyid=0

    I am sorry that the article is in Spanish, but it is from a Chilean outlet, today.

    It notes the unusual circumstance that although gays cannot marry "in" Chile, some now can. How? Because as long as one partner to the marriage is British, they can be married at the British Embassy or a Consulate, as the UK extends the registration of marriage to its diplomatic missions.

    It is currently not legal for US Citizens to be married at US diplomatic missions. It is, however, now legal for US diplomatic missions to grant to non-US citizens visas to travel to the United States with their US SS spouses, or to GET married to their SS partners in the United States. This disjoint in "administrative policy" (not law) must be challenged and changed. And here's how we should do it.

    Let's say the US ambassador to Germany (where SSM is not currently legal) wants to go to his post with his legal US husband. German law refuses to recognize the ambassador's husband's status, and refuses to grant him diplomatic immunity. The Law of the Sea (not to be confused with the "Constitution for the Oceans") then gives the United States the right under reciprocity not to "recognize" the marriage of the German ambassador and his WIFE in Washington. Why? Because they do not hold a valid marriage license issued in the United States.

    This principle of "Comity" under international law means that under these "international circumstances" each country agrees to recognize the other's laws under these "relationships of personal affinity." We already have ambassadors with same-sex spouses who represent us abroad, and whose same-sex spouses are granted the same diplomatic status as their spouses (in order to avoid exactly the embarrassing example I gave above).

    The law of "Comity" has never been restricted to, nor was it intended to be restricted to, diplomats. If the German CEO of Siemens USA moves from Munich to New York with his wife, they do not have to "get married again" to satisfy US law: That is the law of Comity.

    So when a US citizen moves to a country where SSM is "illegal", he/she can make the same claim to "Comity" under international law as ANY legally recognized couple in THAT country can make on US "Comity" under international law.

    In short: Would Couple X from Country Y have to "get married again under the law of the host country when moving to live legally in that country?" If the answer is no (and it will be), then US couples legally married in the United States are married in their new host country under COMITY, no matter WHAT that country's national law says.

    Some of us are pushing this angle in every way we know how to, as we think it's an open door that has been thoroughly overlooked.





  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jun 25, 2014 2:08 AM GMT
    owl_bundy said
    WrestlerBoy saidhttp://www.la2da.cl/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?dt=2014-06-24&PaginaId=26&bodyid=0

    I am sorry that the article is in Spanish, but it is from a Chilean outlet, today.

    It notes the unusual circumstance that although gays cannot marry "in" Chile, some now can. How? Because as long as one partner to the marriage is British, they can be married at the British Embassy or a Consulate, as the UK extends the registration of marriage to its diplomatic missions.

    It is currently not legal for US Citizens to be married at US diplomatic missions. It is, however, now legal for US diplomatic missions to grant to non-US citizens visas to travel to the United States with their US SS spouses, or to GET married to their SS partners in the United States. This disjoint in "administrative policy" (not law) must be challenged and changed. And here's how we should do it.

    Let's say the US ambassador to Germany (where SSM is not currently legal) wants to go to his post with his legal US husband. German law refuses to recognize the ambassador's husband's status, and refuses to grant him diplomatic immunity. The Law of the Sea (not to be confused with the "Constitution for the Oceans") then gives the United States the right under reciprocity not to "recognize" the marriage of the German ambassador and his WIFE in Washington. Why? Because they do not hold a valid marriage license issued in the United States.

    This principle of "Comity" under international law means that under these "international circumstances" each country agrees to recognize the other's laws under these "relationships of personal affinity." We already have ambassadors with same-sex spouses who represent us abroad, and whose same-sex spouses are granted the same diplomatic status as their spouses (in order to avoid exactly the embarrassing example I gave above).

    The law of "Comity" has never been restricted to, nor was it intended to be restricted to, diplomats. If the German CEO of Siemens USA moves from Munich to New York with his wife, they do not have to "get married again" to satisfy US law: That is the law of Comity.

    So when a US citizen moves to a country where SSM is "illegal", he/she can make the same claim to "Comity" under international law as ANY legally recognized couple in THAT country can make on US "Comity" under international law.

    In short: Would Couple X from Country Y have to "get married again under the law of the host country when moving to live legally in that country?" If the answer is no (and it will be), then US couples legally married in the United States are married in their new host country under COMITY, no matter WHAT that country's national law says.

    Some of us are pushing this angle in every way we know how to, as we think it's an open door that has been thoroughly overlooked.







    realistically speaking, how is that going to work? i doubt that there's going to be that much people that are going to go outside their country to date somebody. it sounds like a good concept but it wouldn't work. doubt that the marriage would be recognized by the country that the person is from if it's not legal.


    Ugh. The point is it IS working...now, but for diplomats. But diplomats have no "special right" to comity that other citizens don't.
  • WrestlerBoy

    Posts: 1903

    Jun 25, 2014 2:23 AM GMT
    owl_bundy said
    WrestlerBoy said
    owl_bundy said
    WrestlerBoy saidhttp://www.la2da.cl/Pages/NewsDetail.aspx?dt=2014-06-24&PaginaId=26&bodyid=0

    I am sorry that the article is in Spanish, but it is from a Chilean outlet, today.

    It notes the unusual circumstance that although gays cannot marry "in" Chile, some now can. How? Because as long as one partner to the marriage is British, they can be married at the British Embassy or a Consulate, as the UK extends the registration of marriage to its diplomatic missions.

    It is currently not legal for US Citizens to be married at US diplomatic missions. It is, however, now legal for US diplomatic missions to grant to non-US citizens visas to travel to the United States with their US SS spouses, or to GET married to their SS partners in the United States. This disjoint in "administrative policy" (not law) must be challenged and changed. And here's how we should do it.

    Let's say the US ambassador to Germany (where SSM is not currently legal) wants to go to his post with his legal US husband. German law refuses to recognize the ambassador's husband's status, and refuses to grant him diplomatic immunity. The Law of the Sea (not to be confused with the "Constitution for the Oceans") then gives the United States the right under reciprocity not to "recognize" the marriage of the German ambassador and his WIFE in Washington. Why? Because they do not hold a valid marriage license issued in the United States.

    This principle of "Comity" under international law means that under these "international circumstances" each country agrees to recognize the other's laws under these "relationships of personal affinity." We already have ambassadors with same-sex spouses who represent us abroad, and whose same-sex spouses are granted the same diplomatic status as their spouses (in order to avoid exactly the embarrassing example I gave above).

    The law of "Comity" has never been restricted to, nor was it intended to be restricted to, diplomats. If the German CEO of Siemens USA moves from Munich to New York with his wife, they do not have to "get married again" to satisfy US law: That is the law of Comity.

    So when a US citizen moves to a country where SSM is "illegal", he/she can make the same claim to "Comity" under international law as ANY legally recognized couple in THAT country can make on US "Comity" under international law.

    In short: Would Couple X from Country Y have to "get married again under the law of the host country when moving to live legally in that country?" If the answer is no (and it will be), then US couples legally married in the United States are married in their new host country under COMITY, no matter WHAT that country's national law says.

    Some of us are pushing this angle in every way we know how to, as we think it's an open door that has been thoroughly overlooked.







    realistically speaking, how is that going to work? i doubt that there's going to be that much people that are going to go outside their country to date somebody. it sounds like a good concept but it wouldn't work. doubt that the marriage would be recognized by the country that the person is from if it's not legal.


    Ugh. The point is it IS working...now, but for diplomats. But diplomats have no "special right" to comity that other citizens don't.


    you're talking about a few people. realistically, it's not going to work. the only way they'll be a real breakthrough is when countries stop discriminating.


    Dude, try reading. Do you think there are a "few" people married under NON US LAW SOMEWHERE ELSE who are living in the US????