Gay Relationships Don’t Last Because….

  • metta

    Posts: 39104

    Jul 01, 2014 7:07 AM GMT
    Gay Relationships Don’t Last Because….


    http://iangalsim.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/gay-relationships-dont-last-because/


    Thoughts?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 01, 2014 7:25 AM GMT
    The first date as a job interview is kind of silly, because it implies that you have specific criteria. Where is the excitement in that?
    Also I don't know about you guys, but I think it'd be really cute if a guy was trying hard to impress me.

    Not all of us have forgotten dating, but of course I'm open to the idea of love at first sight. If I were to plan for a date, that's a different story.

    Attraction takes time to form, Definitely no sleeping together until the attraction has fully formed, and the person is trustworthy... but that's common sense.
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    Jul 01, 2014 10:03 AM GMT
    I stopped reading at this sentence and LOL'd a while.

    "Sustain from having sex!"

    Seriously? Sustain? How educated is this writer? icon_lol.gif
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    Jul 01, 2014 10:43 AM GMT
    paulflexes saidI stopped reading at this sentence and LOL'd a while.

    "Sustain from having sex!"

    Seriously? Sustain? How educated is this writer? icon_lol.gif


    Yeah... i saw that too and laughed.

    He does make a few valid points though. If all you're looking for is a hookup then that's all you're going to find with Grindr and Clubs. a REAL LTR has to start with a friendship - a connection on more levels that "Damn that's a nice bulge in your pants".

    His point #5 I think is crucial. People need to love themselves more. There are too many self hating guys who wonder why everyone else hates them. Confidence attracts.

    All that said, i'm just under a year into my first REAL relationship with a guy... and haven't been happier in my life. so not ALL relationships are doomed to fail.
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    Jul 01, 2014 2:40 PM GMT
    JonSpringon said
    paulflexes saidI stopped reading at this sentence and LOL'd a while.

    "Sustain from having sex!"

    Seriously? Sustain? How educated is this writer? icon_lol.gif


    Yeah... i saw that too and laughed.

    He does make a few valid points though. If all you're looking for is a hookup then that's all you're going to find with Grindr and Clubs. a REAL LTR has to start with a friendship - a connection on more levels that "Damn that's a nice bulge in your pants".

    His point #5 I think is crucial. People need to love themselves more. There are too many self hating guys who wonder why everyone else hates them. Confidence attracts.

    All that said, i'm just under a year into my first REAL relationship with a guy... and haven't been happier in my life. so not ALL relationships are doomed to fail.
    Self love. Post-modernist philosophy at its finest.

    It is illogical because You can only love what is outside of you, that's kind of the point of love. If everyone could love themselves just like that, there would be no reason to fall in love in the first place. LOL. It's honestly simple as that.

    And here is the thing, human beings are unable to form legitimate opinions of themselves. Think about how many different people are in your life. Do ALL of them have the same opinion of you?

    Likely not. We cannot even form legitimate opinions of each other.

    Anyway, it's poisonous thinking. It's just an excuse to not be critical of your decisions.
    It's glorified hedonism.

    Also, love is not strictly a positive thing. Objectively it covers a whole range. A spectrum, if you will. It is both nurturing and destructive. Peaceful, and chaotic.
    Beautiful, and twisted beyond recognition. Love is psychedelic, and we can have it for others, but not for ourselves. It simply makes no logical sense.

    Quite frankly, I can see how to some, love is overrated. I'm the sort of person who understands why people kill each other, while everyone shakes their heads never asking why. Hate is not dissimilar from love.
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    Jul 01, 2014 3:31 PM GMT
    metta8 saidGay Relationships Don’t Last Because….

    http://iangalsim.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/gay-relationships-dont-last-because/

    Thoughts?

    It's just a collection of unsubstantiated views. We can get those right here on RJ, and in fact we've had this same discussion a number of times. Oh, and the grammar is dreadful throughout, which doesn't help the credibility factor.

    "The truth is, there are many, many gay relationships out there that have survived longer than most heterosexual marriages. These are sadly hidden from both the homosexual and gay community."

    Huh?
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    Jul 01, 2014 3:41 PM GMT
    JonSpringon said
    He does make a few valid points though. If all you're looking for is a hookup then that's all you're going to find with Grindr and Clubs. a REAL LTR has to start with a friendship - a connection on more levels that "Damn that's a nice bulge in your pants".

    All that said, i'm just under a year into my first REAL relationship with a guy... and haven't been happier in my life. so not ALL relationships are doomed to fail.

    Most of our gay friends have relationships at least 15 years long, some double that, makes our own 7 years seem like we're still in the honeymoon phase.

    As for the manner of meeting, one 30-year couple, now legally married, were introduced to each other in a gay club by my own partner. As for myself, I've almost always found myself in bed with a guy at first meeting, whether it came about through online, in a club or other social setting, including both my late & present partners.

    Making me dubious of these dating & relationship rules people come up with that we're all supposed to follow. They work for some guys, fine, but not for everyone.
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    Jul 01, 2014 4:05 PM GMT
    Title seemed interesting
    opened in a new tab
    read first line
    Closed
    /End
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    Jul 01, 2014 4:31 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidI stopped reading at this sentence and LOL'd a while.

    "Sustain from having sex!"

    Seriously? Sustain? How educated is this writer? icon_lol.gif


    I also picked up right away that the slant is very narrow-mindedly considered sexuality.

    It starts off by thinking that there is something wrong with having a sex drive: sinful perhaps; I wonder where they got that idea? God forbid people should hook up with each other, when, frankly, that's probably the best and sometimes only good reason to leave the house and socialize. Why else put up with all the crap out there?

    Then it subsequently subsumes that because sex is, in that view of things, bad, it can only be justified monogamously. If you have to exercise your sex drive, you better find the exact right fit because only one will do, because relationships are properly sex based and therefore seeking sex outside a primary relationship means, in that thinking, that you're a whore, yet another concept arising from the faulty thinking that sex is bad when it is not.

    I glanced at the article a bit more, seems mostly like judgmental garbage. I can't bother with that. What I do agree with that I noticed and I've mentioned it on my own numerous times is that we don't have the supports of society for our relationships which heteros enjoy. But it is tough to listen to someone complain about that when they insist on beating themselves over the head anyway with their own nonsense.

    That hammer would have more weight aimed away from the body, otherwise yer just smashing your fingers.
  • mybud

    Posts: 11829

    Jul 01, 2014 5:37 PM GMT
    The biggest mistake gay guys do is not keeping their mouths shut. If you got something good...keep it to yourself. You make your life sound all wine and roses, one of your dear friends will surely get thirsty and have a craving for something sweet smelling.
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    Jul 01, 2014 5:41 PM GMT
    Because fucking is supposed to produce offspring, that require care for 12 years or so. Multiple kids pushes that out to around 20 years or what is called a generation. So reproduction requires a 20 year commitment. Gay sex is pointless so no commitment is required at all.
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    Jul 01, 2014 6:04 PM GMT
    Alpha13 saidBecause fucking is supposed to produce offspring which require care for 12 years old or so. Multiple kids pushes that out to around 20 years or what is called a generation. So reproduction requires a 20 year commitment. Gay sex is pointless so no commitment is required at all.


    I agree. The real point of marriage to be to provide a stable place to raise children; not as a prerequisite but as its logical underpinning. Straight people weather the hard times to achieve this goal and create a family. And women have a much better sense of the end goal and in straight relationships keep men also focused on that goal. Gay relationships lack the fundamental goal and spontaneous occurrence of reproduction when the partners come together, and there are no women in a gay male relationship to provide necessary focus and ballast. I doubt that legalized gay marriage will change any of this for the great majority of gay men.
  • ATLANTIS7

    Posts: 1213

    Jul 01, 2014 6:50 PM GMT
    What a load of bollocks........ I had a relationship for 35 years ?
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    Jul 01, 2014 6:59 PM GMT
    I agree with some of the points in the article. I can add some more in.

    - Perfection/Prince charming complex
    - Gay guys expect too much in their partner
    - Unfaithful/Open-Relationship desires
    - Too much baggage/drama in their past/present
  • JBinSFO

    Posts: 90

    Jul 01, 2014 7:14 PM GMT
    metta8 saidGay Relationships Don’t Last Because….


    http://iangalsim.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/gay-relationships-dont-last-because/


    Thoughts?


    Well, maybe we should just start with the title, which makes a pretty broad and unsupported assumption.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4863

    Jul 01, 2014 7:27 PM GMT
    paulflexes saidI stopped reading at this sentence and LOL'd a while.

    "Sustain from having sex!"

    Seriously? Sustain? How educated is this writer? icon_lol.gif


    OK, so there were a few malapropisms. For example, he should have used the word "refrain" instead of "sustain." We all sometimes make mistakes.

    I've seen malapropisms here too. One thread is about the "undermining" of the bench press. The proper word would have been "underrating."

    The term "malapropism" comes from Richard Brinsley Sheridan's play, "The Rivals." A character in the play, Mrs. Malaprop, talks a blue streak and constantly uses the wrong word, such as "participate" instead of "precipitate." There was also the well-known professional athlete who referred to the "electrical college" instead of the "electoral college." That sort of thing is really very common.
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    Jul 01, 2014 7:28 PM GMT
    JBinSFO said
    metta8 saidGay Relationships Don’t Last Because….


    http://iangalsim.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/gay-relationships-dont-last-because/


    Thoughts?


    Well, maybe we should just start with the title, which makes a pretty broad and unsupported assumption.


    Yep. 27 years here and as others have said, most of our friends have been in relationships for 15 years or more.

    He might as well have titled it, "In my opinion, some relationships don't last because...." But that wouldn't have been as catchy.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4863

    Jul 01, 2014 7:41 PM GMT
    For a long time I endeavored to follow the author's advice. When I lived in San Diego, which was before the Internet became a factor, there was a local gay newspaper. I tried running ads in it. When I referred to myself as an "athletic male," one responder assumed that that was code for Greek active which, at that time, was the term used for top in anal sex. Regardless of how I worded ads, responders seemed interested only in jumping into bed immediately rather than getting to know someone first. It was widely believed that having sex was a good way to get to know someone, but really it isn't. Besides, I was concerned about the risk of infection. So, for me, the approach of delaying sex did not work, but at least I didn't become HIV+.
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    Jul 01, 2014 7:42 PM GMT
    --------------------------------------------------------------
    http://iangalsim.wordpress.com/2014/06/29/gay-relationships-dont-last-because/

    Excerpt:-

    "Johnathan out and on the surface it seems that he got it going on. Nice house, nice job, nice car, always rocking the latest threads but what you don’t know is he got bad credit, He is about to get evicted from that house he is renting, His car is in danger of being reposed and he is THIS close to losing that job! But you don’t see it and cheat on Jerry with Johnny Boy. We ALL know how that ends."

    ---------------------------------------------------------------

    That got me worried and surprised icon_eek.gif
    The graph of relationship follows the graph of my financial graph????? Sounds so materialistic. Or maybe I am old school. Born at the wrong time icon_sad.gif
  • Joeyphx444

    Posts: 2382

    Jul 01, 2014 8:48 PM GMT
    Umm nothing we haven't heard before, what's the big deal??

    Love how so many people can just throw out advice like it's so easy to follow. Some people need more than just words thrown at them though. No one willing to take the extra step and actually help someone through things--that's the problem with people, let alone having a relationship beyond friendship
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    Jul 01, 2014 9:06 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer said
    Alpha13 saidBecause fucking is supposed to produce offspring which require care for 12 years old or so. Multiple kids pushes that out to around 20 years or what is called a generation. So reproduction requires a 20 year commitment. Gay sex is pointless so no commitment is required at all.


    I agree. The real point of marriage to be to provide a stable place to raise children; not as a prerequisite but as its logical underpinning. Straight people weather the hard times to achieve this goal and create a family. And women have a much better sense of the end goal and in straight relationships keep men also focused on that goal. Gay relationships lack the fundamental goal and spontaneous occurrence of reproduction when the partners come together, and there are no women in a gay male relationship to provide necessary focus and ballast. I doubt that legalized gay marriage will change any of this for the great majority of gay men.


    I doubt that because it flies in the face of a str8 man's inclination to breed anything with legs to propagate the species.

    I don't buy for one second that str8s are any more inclined towards commitment than are we. Why? Because it hasn't to do with outside forces. Our relationships are internal to us which we share with others when unafraid, of course, of intimacies.

    Children are part of supporting structures providing stabilization for commitment--which is one reason why str8s are so hegemonically horrible for denying us in many cases adoption rights--but the commitment itself arises out of neurological patterns which form our very brains. The commitment is not for the children. If anything, the children are for the commitment.

    This is why being widowed is so very difficult because it breaks the pattern in our brains. It's physical. But at least we can make some sense of it, because it is death. And this is why divorce is so horrifyingly disastrous for so many people. It both breaks the pattern and they can't make sense of it. The same thing with betrayals and traumas. These things which violate social contracts, commitments no longer honored, falsifying years of lives lived together.
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    Jul 01, 2014 10:08 PM GMT
    theantijock said
    sf_swimmer said
    Alpha13 saidBecause fucking is supposed to produce offspring which require care for 12 years old or so. Multiple kids pushes that out to around 20 years or what is called a generation. So reproduction requires a 20 year commitment. Gay sex is pointless so no commitment is required at all.


    I agree. The real point of marriage to be to provide a stable place to raise children; not as a prerequisite but as its logical underpinning. Straight people weather the hard times to achieve this goal and create a family. And women have a much better sense of the end goal and in straight relationships keep men also focused on that goal. Gay relationships lack the fundamental goal and spontaneous occurrence of reproduction when the partners come together, and there are no women in a gay male relationship to provide necessary focus and ballast. I doubt that legalized gay marriage will change any of this for the great majority of gay men.


    I doubt that because it flies in the face of a str8 man's inclination to breed anything with legs to propagate the species.

    I don't buy for one second that str8s are any more inclined towards commitment than are we. Why? Because it hasn't to do without outside forces. Our relationships are internal to us which we share with others when unafraid, of course, of intimacies.



    Straight women most definitely are inclined towards commitment, because they have a higher (potential) biological cost for sex (at least from an evolutionary standpoint - in modern times it's not the case anymore but the instincts are still there). Women have to pay the biological cost of carrying what is essentially a parasitic offspring for 9 months or so, which uses up her food resources and slows her down, making her easier for predators to catch. So it makes sense that women have a commitment instinct because having a man around could defend them from predators and find them food.

    On the other hand, a human male's instincts are to reproduce as much as possible. Which means fuck fuck fuck all the time. You have to make a conscious choice to be in a committed relationship, especially if you're gay, because of these things.

    Oh, and I think the primary complaints about the article that was linked were mostly about the grammar and incorrect word choice (it was honestly painful to read from a copy editing perspective).
  • BillandChuck

    Posts: 2024

    Jul 01, 2014 10:28 PM GMT
    There are kernals of truth to all of it. But the most important tenet is that men who want relationships will find and nurture them; and hopefully those men know the difference between relationship material and relationship-seeking behavior and the opposite. It's really quite simple and unremarkable.
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    Jul 01, 2014 10:37 PM GMT
    SeismicMuscle saidStraight women most definitely are inclined towards commitment, because they have a higher (potential) biological cost for sex (at least from an evolutionary standpoint - in modern times it's not the case anymore but the instincts are still there). Women have to pay the biological cost of carrying what is essentially a parasitic offspring for 9 months or so, which uses up her food resources and slows her down, making her easier for predators to catch. So it makes sense that women have a commitment instinct because having a man around could defend them from predators and find them food.

    On the other hand, a human male's instincts are to reproduce as much as possible. Which means fuck fuck fuck all the time. You have to make a conscious choice to be in a committed relationship, especially if you're gay, because of these things.

    Oh, and I think the primary complaints about the article that was linked were mostly about the grammar and incorrect word choice (it was honestly painful to read from a copy editing perspective).


    Yeah, I'd considered women's investments in offspring but didn't mention because of the male role and because a commitment takes two. But my main point was in looking at how do the children function so I thought the answer might be counter-intuitive because of the "fuck fuck fuck" syndrome. And how many times have we heard of couples staying together "for the children" which to me indicates that the children are not an initiating cause of commitment but rather a support system encouraging continued commitment.

    If so, what then might be a cause of commitment. Why do we see it in some (both heteros and gays) but not in others? Why are some people able to go through others like toilet paper, why do some people throw away or find a way to destroy any relationship they manage to form, while others are unable to let go of even bad relationships? What's the mechanism of that? And that's why I would look further into the self and not into outside sources.

    Your point on it being harder for gays because the commitment has to be that much more conscious is somewhat interesting with respect to how males might have evolved, but even there is a value judgment and I'm not sure how valid it is. The value being that commitment is measured by sexual fidelity and I don't believe that. People can make that their measure but someone can be sexually monogamous while being emotionally detached. I'd much rather have a man who might fuck around but come home to me every time and always be there when he is there. That to me is commitment: the loyalty, not the sex.
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    Jul 01, 2014 10:56 PM GMT
    Lacking merit...the same could be said about St8 people. There are a lot of man men who have successful longer relationship and marriages.