Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture

  • metta

    Posts: 39161

    Jul 15, 2014 11:19 PM GMT

    Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture





    http://time.com/2969951/dear-white-gays-stop-stealing-black-female-culture/
  • coolarmydude

    Posts: 9190

    Jul 16, 2014 12:40 AM GMT
    I don't get what the beef is. There seems to be crossed-messages in the complaint. On the one hand, they knock white gays for acting like a fool from Ru-Paul's Drag Race and saying black women don't act like that, and on the other hand, they essentially complain that the white gays are stealing their thunder and undermining their identity as black women.

    So which is it?
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    Jul 16, 2014 3:23 PM GMT
    YEA! A race thread. This one will end well! icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jul 16, 2014 3:40 PM GMT
    owl_bundy said
    UndercoverMan saidYEA! A race thread. This one will end well! icon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_rolleyes.gif


    looks like to me that it ended before it started. nobody cares.


    Then I'd say it ended well.
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 16, 2014 3:47 PM GMT
    coolarmydude saidI don't get what the beef is. There seems to be crossed-messages in the complaint. On the one hand, they knock white gays for acting like a fool from Ru-Paul's Drag Race and saying black women don't act like that, and on the other hand, they essentially complain that the white gays are stealing their thunder and undermining their identity as black women.

    So which is it?

    She went to a gay bar and was treated like a stereotype. It would be like a gay guy going into a straight bar and being treated like Jack from "Will & Grace." After watching her interview, I can see why that would upset her. Unfortunately, her article, which I read before I saw the interview, smacked of homophobia. For one, she seems to think all white gay men act the same and are mocking her, which I doubt is the case.

    If a straight girl goes to a gay nightclub, MOST of the men there will be indifferent towards her, but a few loud drunken queens who are total fanatics for certain female archetypes might project onto her -- and maybe they didn't pick up on social cues and needed to be slapped. But if she were a blonde white girl, they could just as easily have turned into Alicia Silverstone from "Clueless." They're adopting specific female archetypes, even though there are many blonde women who despise the ditzy "Clueless" archetype. I would imagine that many black women despise the archetypes in Hollywood, whether that's Beyoncé, or Whoopi Goldberg in "Ghost." I think gay men who do this are probably actually being more sexist than racist, and that some of the sexist archetypes of women in Hollywood are also racist.

    Just like the gay men who loathe Jack from "Will & Grace," other people deplore stereotypes they feel are thrust on them. But Jack is beloved by people who support LGBT rights. It's better when they love Jack than when they harbor misgivings and disgust toward him. The archetypes that many black women dislike were created by women that gay men love, adore and idolize. Any celeb/movie-obsessed gay man over a certain age will still remember the dress Whoopi Goldberg wore when she won an Oscar, because she's a legend to them.

    This article made me think of people who say it's our own fault if we are discriminated against because of choices we make. But we didn't choose the bodies we were born into. Gay men are the targets of homophobia, and it often seems that we might as well just be glowing hot pink on the outside, because people DO judge us for the way the look and sound, and that's something that for many is inescapable.

    I think this comes down to a misunderstanding. Gay men who adopt female stereotypes would do well to remember that women are fighting against these stereotypes too.
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    Jul 16, 2014 3:58 PM GMT
    After watching the video, I can understand why they might be a little peeved. It's always annoying to be stereotyped. I wouldn't appreciate it if straight people were coming up to me, asking me to do their hair after finding out I'm gay. But at the end of the day, it's not that big of a deal. You just have to brush off things like this because you will always be offended by someone.
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    Jul 16, 2014 4:52 PM GMT
    ^^This

    Some people go out of their way to find something offensive to themselves.

    I was tickled by Doctress Story icon_lol.gif for saying "don't come up to me child..." (not pronouncing the letter d) when just moments before she said she didn't talk that way.

    I also don't understand the "seeking empowerment" rationale she uses for white gay males appropriating black female culture. Seriously?! How does snapping and twerking and girling this and girling that empower anyone?

    Also, is she offended when she sees black gay males snapping, and twerking and girling this and girling that? I see that behavior more prevalent among black gay males than white ones.

    Much ado about nothing.
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    Jul 16, 2014 5:05 PM GMT
    It seems like a case of misguided generalization & small mindedness being met by the same, only in her case it's being put into a nationally distributed article, after she had put in much thought and consideration.

    Lets be real though, plenty of people get offended at clubs for a whole lot of things... sassy, drunk, train-wrecks say dumb shit. Get a thicker skin, and don't try throwing stones at an entire people group.
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    Jul 16, 2014 6:40 PM GMT
    People fail to remember that stereotypes exist because the behavior is prevalent enough or outrageous enough that it is memorable and is projected upon the entire group being parodied or emulated. It's why we "get the joke" so to speak.

    If you are part of a group that is being parodied or emulated in a way you find offensive you may also want to work withing your own group as well as with society at large to change the perception. That starts with gently and charitably informing the offending party why you find their behavior towards you offensive. It really is as simple as that. Demonizing the particular group the INDIVIDUAL belongs to for HIS behavior makes you no different than he.
  • blueandgold

    Posts: 396

    Jul 16, 2014 6:49 PM GMT
    metta8 said
    Dear White Gays: Stop Stealing Black Female Culture





    http://time.com/2969951/dear-white-gays-stop-stealing-black-female-culture/


    I love the notion that culture can be claimed, itemized and owned like it were intellectual property. My culture does that, so you can't. Grow up lady. Your literary career reached its height at the ole miss school newspaper editorial section. Congrats.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11406

    Jul 16, 2014 7:20 PM GMT
    Black women (Including Beyonce') are stealing the culture of RuPaul ... but she don't mind honey ... Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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    Jul 16, 2014 8:32 PM GMT
    There's been a single "Black female culture" since...when? icon_rolleyes.gif

    I don't think the language and behavior of "country" and - in more recent times - "ghetto" Black women has been "stolen" so much as it's been misappropriated. White women and gay men seem to have no clue about how stupid they look and sound when they're screeching "Bitch, pleez" or "Oh no she dit'un!!!" And everybody cringes when a gay guy of any race sashays up to a well-educated and well-dressed AA lady and greets her with words along the lines of, "GURL...dat some FINE-azz jury you got on!" What's wrong with "I love that necklace" or "Those earrings go great with your skirt," since that's what would be said to any other woman?
    Anybody who's felt their blood boil when "gay male culture" is mocked by wrist flapping and stereotypical talking should know better. But throwing a hissy fit over it (or any "stealing" from a "culture") is spitting into the wind. Never in recorded history has a behavior been permanently stopped, with genuine apologies, when it's been called out.
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    Jul 16, 2014 11:28 PM GMT


    Watching the video, a familiar distinction revealed itself between how white gay men are perceived v. how black women are perceived when they walk/talk/do these things. The difference is the same when gay men say insult the people around them v. when straight men or straight women insult the people around them: the gay men are seen as "sassy," while the straight men are seen as "jerks" or something else, and the women are seen as "bitches" or something else (due to the ambiguity of the word "bitch," it can be questionable whether women are receiving a compliment or an insult. In this particular case, however, we are assuming the professional world as well as the social world operates underneath the heteronormative, male gaze.) In the particular case about white gay culture v. black female culture, there is the trifecta of an intersection between race, gender, and sexuality. The short version is that while gay men (even black gay men) are perceived as "sassy," black women are merely perceived as "ghetto," the innate difference between these two words is that for gay men, there is no commentary of the socioeconomic status, while for black women, there is.

    My opinion may be skewed, seeing as I am the only black person commenting on this thread. However, considering the way gay culture has evolved since stonewall, I don't think that the opinions expressed by these panelists are unfounded or unexamined--they are indicative of the black experience in america, specifically on how it has interacted with the gay experience in america. It is not necessarily an itemization of culture that is happening between the two groups that these women are speaking about, but the appropriation and fetishizing of culture, modern hipsters do the same thing.
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    Jul 16, 2014 11:45 PM GMT
    The professor with the yellow shirt is on point!!!!!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 16, 2014 11:45 PM GMT
    Culture: A learned way of life shared by a group of people.

    I don't see how it can be 'stolen'.
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    Jul 17, 2014 12:00 AM GMT
    Some gay man love the whole diva culture and they like to express thenselves regularly in a way that resembles the way some black women talk and behave. Now just because some flamboyant gay guy came to you and talked in a way that you feel was disrespectful does not mean he was being racist. Most likely he talks like that to EVERYONE not just you, if anything this should be seen as a sign of admiration for black women culture. I'm sorry but just because something sounds racist to you doesnt mean that the subject's intentions were racist. Dont be giving people history lessons either. The impact and meaning that language had 30-40 years ago, does not carry to 2014. If you feel the need to educate, go for it but guess what, its a complete waste of time. My message to these women is to not judge based on their own "educated" first impressions.
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    Jul 17, 2014 12:14 AM GMT
    This has been posted here this week like 10 times. icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Jul 17, 2014 9:27 AM GMT
    everybody's "stealing black culture" not just the gayz. a lot of white women do it too. um, Iggy Azalea anyone?

    I always knew this would happen bc the truth is that black men/women are way cooler & smarter than whities. they've always been.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 17, 2014 11:40 AM GMT
    OMGZ MUH CULTURAL APPROPRIATION OH NOES

    Seriously, cultural appropriation happens all the time. To whoever wrote this: GET OVER IT!!
  • HottJoe

    Posts: 21366

    Jul 17, 2014 6:42 PM GMT
    A_Montax1 said

    Watching the video, a familiar distinction revealed itself between how white gay men are perceived v. how black women are perceived when they walk/talk/do these things. The difference is the same when gay men say insult the people around them v. when straight men or straight women insult the people around them: the gay men are seen as "sassy," while the straight men are seen as "jerks" or something else, and the women are seen as "bitches" or something else (due to the ambiguity of the word "bitch," it can be questionable whether women are receiving a compliment or an insult. In this particular case, however, we are assuming the professional world as well as the social world operates underneath the heteronormative, male gaze.) In the particular case about white gay culture v. black female culture, there is the trifecta of an intersection between race, gender, and sexuality. The short version is that while gay men (even black gay men) are perceived as "sassy," black women are merely perceived as "ghetto," the innate difference between these two words is that for gay men, there is no commentary of the socioeconomic status, while for black women, there is.

    My opinion may be skewed, seeing as I am the only black person commenting on this thread. However, considering the way gay culture has evolved since stonewall, I don't think that the opinions expressed by these panelists are unfounded or unexamined--they are indicative of the black experience in america, specifically on how it has interacted with the gay experience in america. It is not necessarily an itemization of culture that is happening between the two groups that these women are speaking about, but the appropriation and fetishizing of culture, modern hipsters do the same thing.

    Thanks. That was really informative. I think the socioeconomic aspect is probably huge. Unfortunately, I doubt the gay men who do this realize these implications, because they are mimicking celebrities and divas who portray the stereotype.

    I also think that gay man who adopt female stereotypes are taking a bite of forbidden fruit. They probably always related with girl culture but were repressed or ridiculed, and so for them it means something entirely different. I think it's vajayjay envy.icon_cry.gif
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    Jul 17, 2014 7:36 PM GMT
    No problem if what they are discussing is indicative of black female "culture." I find very little of value there to appropriate. Head rolling, finger snaps, twerking, and ghetto talk will not enhance my life a single iota.
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    Jul 17, 2014 8:55 PM GMT
    owl_bundy said
    tmac saidThe professor with the yellow shirt is on point!!!!!


    i agree with her but what i want to know is her views on the black gay guys that do the same thing because i seen plenty that have done that.


    Me too because honestly I see it done more by black gays than white and more by flamboyant gays of all races and colors.
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    Jul 17, 2014 11:07 PM GMT
    I REALLY Don't care what her reasoning is, if she even has any!icon_rolleyes.gif
    When I hear or see ANYONE, black, white, male, female, straight, gay or anything in-between, using the "mannerisms" and "colloquialisms" and just poor spelling and improper contractions....as well as playing into some "stereotype"....I just shake my head and walk away knowing that there is NOTHING occupying that space and using the air and energy, that even REMOTELY interests me.icon_eek.gif
    Honestly....If "Ms. Thang" wants to claim this ignorant and embarrassing, cultural misfire of a stereotype, that includes poor language, tacky and trashy attire and mannerisms....Let her! icon_lol.gificon_redface.gif
    I have ALWAYS thought that gays would have either come up with something much more interesting and effective, or just gone with the culture 'de rigueur'.... and this was actually turned into a panel "discussion"?....OH please, slow news day?
    icon_confused.gificon_redface.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gif
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    Jul 18, 2014 1:01 AM GMT
    ^ EXACTLY!
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    Jul 18, 2014 1:22 AM GMT
    Sporty_G saidI REALLY Don't care what her reasoning is, if she even has any!icon_rolleyes.gif
    When I hear or see ANYONE, black, white, male, female, straight, gay or anything in-between, using the "mannerisms" and "colloquialisms" and just poor spelling and improper contractions....as well as playing into some "stereotype"....I just shake my head and walk away knowing that there is NOTHING occupying that space and using the air and energy, that even REMOTELY interests me.icon_eek.gif
    Honestly....If "Ms. Thang" wants to claim this ignorant and embarrassing, cultural misfire of a stereotype, that includes poor language, tacky and trashy attire and mannerisms....Let her! icon_lol.gificon_redface.gif
    I have ALWAYS thought that gays would have either come up with something much more interesting and effective, or just gone with the culture 'de rigueur'.... and this was actually turned into a panel "discussion"?....OH please, slow news day?
    icon_confused.gificon_redface.gificon_rolleyes.gificon_lol.gif


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