Homosexuality a Choice?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 18, 2014 4:14 PM GMT
    http://theconversation.com/the-gay-community-should-stop-attacking-anyone-who-dares-suggest-sexuality-is-a-choice-29297

    "In her new book Straight Expectations, radical feminist writer and campaigner Julie Bindel has recently and very publicly claimed that she’s not convinced by the scientific argument that sexual orientation is innate, and that she feels she chose to be lesbian.

    She received a vitriolic response from the gay community on social media, with comments calling her “stupid”, “confused”, and “an awful human being”. One reader comment on Pink News stated that “Julie Bindell’s [sic] suggestion that being gay is a choice is downright offensive to me!”

    This fury at claims we “choose” our sexuality is nothing new. Aside from the controversy that Bindel has courted for years, back in 2012, Sex and the City star Cynthia Nixon received a similar response from LGBT activists when, in an interview with the New York Times, she explained that being gay was a choice for her."
  • HottJoe

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    Jul 18, 2014 4:18 PM GMT
    If someone chooses to be gay then they're not really gay. I could choose to be straight but it would be a lie, and at this point no one would believe me anyway. She's probably straight and just wants to sell books.
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    Jul 18, 2014 4:59 PM GMT
    HottJoe saidIf someone chooses to be gay then they're not really gay. I could choose to be straight but it would be a lie, and at this point no one would believe me anyway. She's probably straight and just wants to sell books.


    Although we didn't use the term 'gay' in that way back in the late 60s and early 70s to the best of my knowledge, I sort of chose to be (mostly) gay primarily to be different and a contrarian, also thinking it was a higher, purer kind of relationship because there was no sex involved ... just love. Took me a very long time to come to the realization that you can't choose orientation.
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    Jul 18, 2014 5:26 PM GMT
    Actually, it is a very interesting topic.

    For the people who have no idea about the concepts that are being discussed among scholars, do not be quick to judge her.
    Remember that homosexuality is coined in 19th century term, that is also being reinforced by heteronormative society in our daily life. There is nothing "natural" in hetero/homo/bi sexuality as they are just socially constructed terms. Of course they have very physical implications, thus we need to de-construct them for the sake of millions of people around the world.

    I am yet to read her argument, but it seems interesting to read.
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    Jul 18, 2014 5:42 PM GMT
    What a dumb bitch
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    Jul 18, 2014 5:47 PM GMT
    The article seems to take on the bigger issue of whether it should really matter if we are born this way or not.

    I am a believer that it should not matter. I think the article makes some incorrect assumptions as to why it should not matter, but I won't go down that road.

    As for her feeling that she had choice in the matter, it may well be that she did. She may be one of those individuals who falls in the middle of the Kinsey scale.

    Since science has not yet provided an answer to what makes us gay, we should all be open to the fact that others may have a different experience than we do.

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    Jul 18, 2014 5:56 PM GMT
    Repressing your individual sexual orientation for the perceived satisfaction of certain others? Now, that's a "choice."
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    Jul 18, 2014 6:12 PM GMT
    She is entitled to her opinion, but, like the vast majority of gay people, I know I did not choose to be gay, so I'm not really interested in her dubious assertion or her book.

    I can see how it might interest FIF though, as he has prevaricated and flip-flopped here many times regarding his sexual orientation (while managing to be generally offensive and contrary along the way).
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    Jul 18, 2014 6:34 PM GMT
    Doesn't that logically mean that being straight is also a choice?
  • HottJoe

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    Jul 18, 2014 6:51 PM GMT
    creyente saidThe article seems to take on the bigger issue of whether it should really matter if we are born this way or not.

    I am a believer that it should not matter. I think the article makes some incorrect assumptions as to why it should not matter, but I won't go down that road.

    As for her feeling that she had choice in the matter, it may well be that she did. She may be one of those individuals who falls in the middle of the Kinsey scale.

    Since science has not yet provided an answer to what makes us gay, we should all be open to the fact that others may have a different experience than we do.


    If she falls in the middle of the Kinsey scale then she is bi... And she didn't choose to be bi, either.

    I agree that it shouldn't matter, because people should be free to live and love how they want, but people who are legitimately gay know darn well that they didn't choose it. It's not that we're calling her a liar, it's that what she's trying to say about us is untrue, and in doing so she's doing a huge disservice to gay people.

    She's confused about her own identity, but just because she can't tell her asshole from a hole in the wall doesn't mean the rest of us are confused about who we are.

    /rant icon_mad.gif
  • HottJoe

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    Jul 18, 2014 6:54 PM GMT
    kevex saidDoesn't that logically mean that being straight is also a choice?

    I chose to be a bird of flight. I didn't even specify gender, but it didn't matter. They were out of bird bodies, so I got stuck with this heavy earthbound human body instead.icon_evil.gif
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    Jul 18, 2014 7:08 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    creyente saidThe article seems to take on the bigger issue of whether it should really matter if we are born this way or not.

    I am a believer that it should not matter. I think the article makes some incorrect assumptions as to why it should not matter, but I won't go down that road.

    As for her feeling that she had choice in the matter, it may well be that she did. She may be one of those individuals who falls in the middle of the Kinsey scale.

    Since science has not yet provided an answer to what makes us gay, we should all be open to the fact that others may have a different experience than we do.


    If she falls in the middle of the Kinsey scale then she is bi... And she didn't choose to be bi, either.

    I agree that it shouldn't matter, because people should be free to live and love how they want, but people who are legitimately gay know darn well that they didn't choose it. It's not that we're calling her a liar, it's that what she's trying to say about us is untrue, and in doing so she's doing a huge disservice to gay people.

    She's confused about her own identity, but just because she can't tell her asshole from a hole in the wall doesn't mean the rest of us are confused about who we are.

    /rant icon_mad.gif


    "people should be free to live and love how they want"

    That was exactly my point so many decades ago. I guess a pretty radical view at the time.
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    Jul 18, 2014 7:20 PM GMT
    creyente saidThe article seems to take on the bigger issue of whether it should really matter if we are born this way or not.

    I am a believer that it should not matter. I think the article makes some incorrect assumptions as to why it should not matter, but I won't go down that road.

    As for her feeling that she had choice in the matter, it may well be that she did. She may be one of those individuals who falls in the middle of the Kinsey scale.

    Since science has not yet provided an answer to what makes us gay, we should all be open to the fact that others may have a different experience than we do.



    Neither there is an answer to what makes people staright. If it were genetic, wouldn't everyone be straight?
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    Jul 18, 2014 7:22 PM GMT
    HottJoe said
    If she falls in the middle of the Kinsey scale then she is bi... And she didn't choose to be bi, either.

    I agree that it shouldn't matter, because people should be free to live and love how they want, but people who are legitimately gay know darn well that they didn't choose it. It's not that we're calling her a liar, it's that what she's trying to say about us is untrue, and in doing so she's doing a huge disservice to gay people.

    She's confused about her own identity, but just because she can't tell her asshole from a hole in the wall doesn't mean the rest of us are confused about who we are.

    /rant icon_mad.gif


    I think a majority of the LGBT community would agree that they don't feel it's a choice. However, that does not mean that for some it is not a choice. There are certainly some who feel they have chosen to be gay and some who feel they have chosen to be straight.

    For the record, I don't feel I had a choice in the matter. I also don't take any comfort in this fact. It simply is a reality for me that I deal with.

    I think you make a good point that perhaps her bisexuality is also not a choice.

    While there is plenty of evidence that points to the fact that sexuality is very likely not a choice for a majority of people, we can't know this is the case for everyone.

    I think people need to be careful about blanket statements concerning sexuality and gender as we are still learning about these topics. This is why I don't think she is correct in assuming it is a choice for everyone, but on the bigger issue I think she is correct.

    It should not matter whether it is choice or not. People should be free to be whatever they want as long as they are not hurting anyone else.

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    Jul 18, 2014 7:26 PM GMT
    Scientists say that sexuality is epigenetic (changes that happen to the genes while in the womb).
  • frogman89

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    Jul 18, 2014 7:26 PM GMT
    It's a choice to accept to be gay. You can either act it out or you can suppress it and pretend to be straight.

    I think she mixed this up.
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    Jul 18, 2014 7:29 PM GMT
    frogman89 saidIt's a choice to accept to be gay. You can either act it out or you can suppress it and pretend to be straight.

    I think she mixed this up.


    +1 Exactly icon_smile.gif
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    Jul 18, 2014 7:42 PM GMT
    kevex saidScientists say that sexuality is epigenetic (changes that happen to the genes while in the womb).


    I agree with this but remember that sexuality is more than just gay or straight. There is a whole spectrum that happens in between.

    This leaves open the opportunity for someone who is somewhere in the middle to feel that they have in fact made a choice.

    The truth is more likely what Joe and I were saying which is that they are in the middle or bisexual.

    Being bisexual is also probably not a choice, but to someone who is bisexual the ability to choose to prefer one sex over another may seem like choosing to be straight or gay.

    These labels are all social constructs which leave open room for some ambiguity.

    Again, the more important thing here is that it should not matter.
  • frogman89

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    Jul 18, 2014 7:45 PM GMT
    creyente said
    kevex saidScientists say that sexuality is epigenetic (changes that happen to the genes while in the womb).


    I agree with this but remember that sexuality is more than just gay or straight. There is a whole spectrum that happens in between.

    This leaves open the opportunity for someone who is somewhere in the middle to feel that they have in fact made a choice.

    The truth is more likely what Joe and I were saying which is that they are in the middle or bisexual.

    Being bisexual is also probably not a choice, but to someone who is bisexual the ability to choose to prefer one sex over another may seem like choosing to be straight or gay.

    These labels are all social constructs which leave open room for some ambiguity.

    Again, the more important thing here is that it should not matter.

    That makes sense. I agree
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    Jul 18, 2014 7:50 PM GMT
    creyente said
    kevex saidScientists say that sexuality is epigenetic (changes that happen to the genes while in the womb).


    I agree with this but remember that sexuality is more than just gay or straight. There is a whole spectrum that happens in between.

    This leaves open the opportunity for someone who is somewhere in the middle to feel that they have in fact made a choice.

    The truth is more likely what Joe and I were saying which is that they are in the middle or bisexual.

    Being bisexual is also probably not a choice, but to someone who is bisexual the ability to choose to prefer one sex over another may seem like choosing to be straight or gay.

    These labels are all social constructs which leave open room for some ambiguity.

    Again, the more important thing here is that it should not matter.


    Bisexual and sexually fluid people are a huge minority. Almost everyone is monosexual. Why assume sexuality is a choice based on only a tiny fraction of society?

    Also, bisexuals dont choose to be staright or gay. They're always bisexual. It's not a swicth.
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    Jul 18, 2014 7:56 PM GMT
    kevex said
    Bisexual and sexually fluid people are a huge minority. Almost everyone is monosexual. Why assume sexuality is a choice based on only a tiny fraction of society?


    I don't agree that they are a huge minority. I think there are many who hide at the extremes to make life easier on them.

    The moment you announce that you are someone who lives in the middle zone you get a bunch of negative reactions for all different types of reasons.

    More importantly I at no point said that sexuality is a choice.

    I made a point of saying I thought the women was incorrect.

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    Jul 18, 2014 7:59 PM GMT
    Not a choice. It's who we are. Gay, bi..... Now, Is it a choice to have GAY SEX? Yes!

    Should I have gay sex?

    Well, should I live a sad and sexless life and be sub human?

    I ask any str8 man to give up pussy!!!

    Speaking of pussy.....I forced myself to try it.

    I also ask any str8 guy to have sex with another guy?

    Hmmmmm See my points here??????
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    Jul 18, 2014 8:02 PM GMT
    kevex said
    Also, bisexuals dont choose to be staright or gay. They're always bisexual. It's not a swicth.


    I see you edited your response while I was responding to it.icon_evil.gif

    You added the line above, so I'll respond separately to this.

    If you read my response to one of your posts, I said that they it may seem to them that they are choosing to be straight or gay.

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    Jul 18, 2014 9:01 PM GMT
    While there are some gays who say they could never have sex with a woman, have never had sex with a woman, and are actually revolted by the thought of it that was not the case with me and other gay men. We have had sex with women just as easily as we can have sex with a man. In my teens and twenties I went back and forth between them both as many gay men do at that age. In my thirties and forties I was faithfully married to a woman. In my fifties and after my divorce I CHOSE to limit my sexual expression to men.

    While my underlying orientation is gay I CHOSE to sublimate it and operate sexually as a heterosexual. I later CHOSE to fully express my sexuality in a sexual manner with men alone.

    So while I didn't CHOOSE my orientation, it is totally up to my discretion as to whether or not I CHOOSE to act on it. Some heterosexual are capable of the same.

    So the whole fury over the issue is a non issue for me. We should be at a point in our understanding of human sexuality to allow for people to CHOOSE what they do with their genitalia without being judged unfairly or discriminated against.

  • HottJoe

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    Jul 18, 2014 9:09 PM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidWhile there are some gays who say they could never have sex with a woman, have never had sex with a woman, and are actually revolted by the thought of it that was not the case with me and other gay men. We have had sex with women just as easily as we can have sex with a man. In my teens and twenties I went back and forth between them both as many gay men do at that age. In my thirties and forties I was faithfully married to a woman. In my fifties and after my divorce I CHOSE to limit my sexual expression to men.

    While my underlying orientation is gay I CHOSE to sublimate it and operate sexually as a heterosexual. I later CHOSE to fully express my sexuality in a sexual manner with men alone.

    So while I didn't CHOOSE my orientation, it is totally up to my discretion as to whether or not I CHOOSE to act on it. Some heterosexual are capable of the same.

    So the whole fury over the issue is a non issue for me. We should be at a point in our understanding of human sexuality to allow for people to CHOOSE what they do with their genitalia without being judged unfairly or discriminated against.


    This sounds way too Catholic...icon_confused.gif