David Jolly(R) Florida Announces Support for Gay Marriage

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2014 2:23 PM GMT
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/07/21/republican-rep-david-jolly-fla-supports-gay-marriage/

    From the article:

    “As a matter of my Christian faith, I believe in traditional marriage," said Jolly in a statement to The Post. "But as a matter of Constitutional principle I believe in a form of limited government that protects personal liberty. To me, that means that the sanctity of one’s marriage should be defined by their faith and by their church, not by their state. Accordingly, I believe it is fully appropriate for a state to recognize both traditional marriage as well as same-sex marriage, and therefore I support the recent decision by a Monroe County Circuit Judge.”

    I think that this is how Republicans will position themselves on the issue as opposition to gay marriage becomes a real liability, especially turning off younger voters.
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    Jul 25, 2014 3:40 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn saidhttp://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2014/07/21/republican-rep-david-jolly-fla-supports-gay-marriage/

    From the article:

    “As a matter of my Christian faith, I believe in traditional marriage," said Jolly in a statement to The Post. "But as a matter of Constitutional principle I believe in a form of limited government that protects personal liberty. To me, that means that the sanctity of one’s marriage should be defined by their faith and by their church, not by their state. Accordingly, I believe it is fully appropriate for a state to recognize both traditional marriage as well as same-sex marriage, and therefore I support the recent decision by a Monroe County Circuit Judge.”

    I think that this is how Republicans will position themselves on the issue as opposition to gay marriage becomes a real liability, especially turning off younger voters.


    Carefully crafted yet unsurprisingly second-classed and two-faced by saying sanctity of marriage should be defined by faith and church knowing full well that the big church denies same sex marriage which casts a minority faith more towards the role of not a "responsible" religion but a renegade cult merely tolerated by the constitutional state.

    It's backhanded support they can shove up their backsides. We need neither them nor that. We are neither the faith of gay nor the cult of being gay requiring constitutional protections. We are humanity itself, not sanctimoniously accepted into the greater society but sanctified naturally by our own being. All we require of the constitution is equal endowment of our rights.

    In recognizing the state is for itself defining.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2014 4:23 PM GMT
    You wouldn't be happy if the man showed up groveling on your doorstep and begging forgiveness.

    At some point, we need to recognize that not everyone will or has to agree with our feelings and our perceptions of the world. We're not longer asking for tolerance, but are demanding total acceptance and approval.

    We "celebrate diversity," but that celebration applies only to ethnicity, sexual orientation, physical ability, etc. There's no room in or "diverse" world for people of faith or anyone who has an opinion that's different from our own.

    We're becoming the jackbooted assholes that we suffered under for so long.
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    Jul 25, 2014 5:12 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn saidWe're becoming the jackbooted assholes that we suffered under for so long.


    unless and until we start bullying them from childhood into adulthood and start crafting laws outlawing their existence, we still have a long way to go until our jackboots are on :p
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2014 6:41 PM GMT
    Reparations appreciated but no apology required. All they need do is admit they were wrong by allowing our rights. And then they can go the fuck away.

    Their abuse of us is not our obligation to them. Nor does them ending their abuses obligate us either.
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    Jul 26, 2014 11:22 AM GMT
    There's nothing backhanded. The first amendment protects the freedom of speech and association not so that you can go outside and say "I love daisies" at the top of your lungs.

    Up until the creation of this nation, the majority of governments were the churches themselves. Those who came to the U.S., many for religious freedom, crafted a government that allowed people to be governed by their own belief systems though with a national structure to uphold contracts between citizens and to defend that very right to practice one's beliefs.

    Who cares if the Catholic Church never marries gays? You can easily find an ordained minister to marry two men or women, it's not that hard to become ordained yourself.

    Basically what Jolly has said is the constitutional answer, it is not the State or Federal government's right to determine what marriage is. That is up to the two people. The federal and state governments' jobs are to uphold contracts, and that's where the trickiness has come in, because we've linked the ceremonial piece of marriage with a contract or license to provide government benefits.
  • HndsmKansan

    Posts: 16311

    Jul 26, 2014 2:07 PM GMT
    Glad to hear it. I say, anything positive is helpful.
    Hopefully more people on the republican side will say more empowering things.
  • peterstrong

    Posts: 989

    Jul 26, 2014 2:22 PM GMT
    who gives a fuck what the catholic church sez or does
    their last pope protected buggering of children for GOD'S SAKE !!!


    I am with antijock and jackbone on this - reparations appreciated, but not required - just shut the fuck up about what your stupid former slave endorsing, daughter stoning, bull burning alters to your levitical law neighbors, and christian church lady views are icon_rolleyes.gif

    and yes, by the way - thanks for not denying my constitutional rights any longer icon_idea.gif

    bro tie - this is not a historical first for the planet, other governments at other points in history recognized homosex and bisex as equals - i know u didn't say that but you sort of implied it.

  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jul 26, 2014 3:31 PM GMT
    Are we supposed to be jumping for joy that one Republican gives a vaguely-worded semi-endorsement of marriage equality? If you read his carefully-crafted statement, it indicates that he "personally" considers us lesser than straight people. What a humanitarian.

    Of course the larger issue is that, including this guy's lukewarm endorsement, a whopping eight out of 233 Republicans in the House now support marriage equality. Which means 225 still treat us like second-class citizens.

    I say the GOP can go f*ck itself. It's already lost on this issue, and the country is moving forward without them.
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    Jul 26, 2014 3:58 PM GMT
    Nobody requires, BroTie, for them to like us. But that they don't like us is no reason for them to deny us our humanity, to be cruel to us. Nobody requires that their church marry us. But that doesn't put them in the right to deny us marriage.

    I absolutely support their right in their church and in their belief to think and say that I as a gay man am by their faith considered by them to be an abomination. But they have no right to make law of their faith which counters all of science. Their faith is their right, their denial of my humanity is not.

    There's lots of reasons why lots of people don't like each other. But that doesn't mean that you don't champion their rights in this land of the free. You don't prevent someone from enjoying their human rights because you don't like them. So it is completely proper to judge differently how they pray and how they vote.

    I feel also that I should clarify for rkyjockdn that I would neither deny nor even discourage both their apology, were they to ever man up to that, or your acceptance of that, were you to ever be so honored by its presentation.

    But even your acceptance of even their apology does not confer upon them grace for all their abuses upon us. That is something they must find from within themselves, without our help though you may be so inclined. By all means, free yourself of their abuses however you find fit, but know that their only salvation is the struggle they must take on to forgive themselves out of which we will be freed throughout the world.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Jul 26, 2014 5:00 PM GMT
    Don't hold your breath for any apology from the Republicans. They are still officially against equality for gay Americans -- it's written into their party's national platform. We should not rest until every one of them is voted out of office.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jul 26, 2014 8:00 PM GMT
    KissTheSky saidAre we supposed to be jumping for joy that one Republican gives a vaguely-worded semi-endorsement of marriage equality? If you read his carefully-crafted statement, it indicates that he "personally" considers us lesser than straight people. What a humanitarian.

    Of course the larger issue is that, including this guy's lukewarm endorsement, a whopping eight out of 233 Republicans in the House now support marriage equality. Which means 225 still treat us like second-class citizens.

    I say the GOP can go f*ck itself. It's already lost on this issue, and the country is moving forward without them.


    Now that we are moving forward so swiftly, we can afford to be slightly tolerant. It is unrealistic to expect people to change suddenly from white-hot hate to loving acceptance. The trend is in the right direction; we must see that it continues. Even if we achieve full and total acceptance, it will take eternal vigilance to prevent back-sliding.
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Jul 26, 2014 8:05 PM GMT
    KissTheSky saidDon't hold your breath for any apology from the Republicans. They are still officially against equality for gay Americans -- it's written into their party's national platform. We should not rest until every one of them is voted out of office.


    They will never all be voted out of office and it would not be a good thing if they were. History indicates that one-party governments more easily become oppressive. However, we should not rest until the vast majority of people in both parties agree that we should have full equality.
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    Jul 27, 2014 1:39 AM GMT
    Like rats from a sinking ship - the craven Repubs are starting to realize that being anti-gay is losing them votes instead of gaining them votes - and they're flip-flopping and mouthing pro-gay words.

    They're doing this to try to get votes - and ONLY to try to get votes.
    Don't be fooled by their BS.

    When the Repubs change their official party platform to support instead of oppose gay marriage - then and ONLY then will there be any meaningful change from the Repubs on gay marriage.
    Until the - FUCK the Repub party.
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    Jul 27, 2014 2:25 AM GMT
    The_Polaris saidLike rats from a sinking ship - the craven Repubs are starting to realize that being anti-gay is losing them votes instead of gaining them votes - and they're flip-flopping and mouthing pro-gay words.

    They're doing this to try to get votes - and ONLY to try to get votes.
    Don't be fooled by their BS.

    When the Repubs change their official party platform to support instead of oppose gay marriage - then and ONLY then will there be any meaningful change from the Repubs on gay marriage.
    Until the - FUCK the Repub party.


    In politics, everyone does everything for votes.
    So what? Are we going to vilify the progress that's been made here only because it had a partisan undertone?

    Jeez. Chill dude.
  • DCguy2001

    Posts: 314

    Jul 27, 2014 5:31 AM GMT
    It's a strange strategy for winning over Republicans/conservatives and hastening the broad acceptance of gay marriage to tell a GOP congressmen to go f*ck himself when he changes his position from opposing legal recognition of gay marriage to endorsing it.

    Democrats deserve all of the credit for courageously leading on this issue, and history will record how they paved the way. But let's not spit in the face of Republicans who are belately coming around. We WANT them to come around!
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:30 PM GMT
    JackBoneTX said
    rkyjockdn saidWe're becoming the jackbooted assholes that we suffered under for so long.


    unless and until we start bullying them from childhood into adulthood and start crafting laws outlawing their existence, we still have a long way to go until our jackboots are on :p


    Sorry,,, I don't really follow your logic.
    It's like saying Christians should be allowed to think less of African American's as they did in the 50's.
    Opinion is one thing, but slavery is over as should all the bullying of kids, and this one woman, one man thing.
    Wake up folks and smell the evolution of humanity.
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    Jul 27, 2014 1:39 PM GMT
    DCguy1999 saidIt's a strange strategy for winning over Republicans/conservatives and hastening the broad acceptance of gay marriage to tell a GOP congressmen to go f*ck himself when he changes his position from opposing legal recognition of gay marriage to endorsing it.

    Democrats deserve all of the credit for courageously leading on this issue, and history will record how they paved the way. But let's not spit in the face of Republicans who are belately coming around. We WANT them to come around!


    I thought momentarily similarly on the credit issue so of course I think that's a good observation but I didn't think it relevant as anything more than an aside because overriding for me is that not just the Republicans but the entire electorate can go fuck itself on this issue.

    Human rights derive from natural law not votes.

    We hold these truths to be self-evident...
  • CuriousJockAZ

    Posts: 19136

    Jul 27, 2014 1:41 PM GMT
    DCguy1999 saidIt's a strange strategy for winning over Republicans/conservatives and hastening the broad acceptance of gay marriage to tell a GOP congressmen to go f*ck himself when he changes his position from opposing legal recognition of gay marriage to endorsing it.

    Democrats deserve all of the credit for courageously leading on this issue, and history will record how they paved the way. But let's not spit in the face of Republicans who are belately coming around. We WANT them to come around!



    ^^^^ THIS ^^^^
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    Jul 27, 2014 1:45 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    DCguy1999 saidIt's a strange strategy for winning over Republicans/conservatives and hastening the broad acceptance of gay marriage to tell a GOP congressmen to go f*ck himself when he changes his position from opposing legal recognition of gay marriage to endorsing it.

    Democrats deserve all of the credit for courageously leading on this issue, and history will record how they paved the way. But let's not spit in the face of Republicans who are belately coming around. We WANT them to come around!



    ^^^^ THIS ^^^^


    We're okay with them coming around. We're not okay with them being sanctimonious about it.

    If that dog wants to be petted again, it better have its tail between its legs.
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    Jul 27, 2014 5:10 PM GMT
    Rita said
    The_Polaris saidLike rats from a sinking ship - the craven Repubs are starting to realize that being anti-gay is losing them votes instead of gaining them votes - and they're flip-flopping and mouthing pro-gay words.

    They're doing this to try to get votes - and ONLY to try to get votes.
    Don't be fooled by their BS.

    When the Repubs change their official party platform to support instead of oppose gay marriage - then and ONLY then will there be any meaningful change from the Repubs on gay marriage.
    Until the - FUCK the Repub party.


    In politics, everyone does everything for votes.
    So what? Are we going to vilify the progress that's been made here only because it had a partisan undertone?

    Jeez. Chill dude.




    No progress has been made in getting the Repubs to change their policies re: gay rights.
    Zip.
    Zero.
    Nada.
    Their anti-gay policies are exactly the same.

    Only fools believe that someone has changed based on their words.
    Words - especially from politicians - mean nothing unless they're backed up by action.
    When the Repub party changes it's official party platform and removes the anti-gay plank - then we can believe they're serious about abandoning their decades-long push to keep gay Americans second class citizens.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2014 5:20 PM GMT
    flip-flop

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2014 6:17 PM GMT
    rkyjockdn: We're becoming the jackbooted a**holes that we suffered under for so long.

    Good point.

    The "correct" Republican position, in my opinion, is that this issue should be decided by each individual state, and not by little dictators in black robes.

    Does anyone doubt that the radical Left wants to destroy the institution of marriage, outlaw Christianity, and destroy anyone who disagrees?

    Homofascism is on display in this topic.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2014 7:05 PM GMT
    jockfever saidrkyjockdn: We're becoming the jackbooted a**holes that we suffered under for so long.

    Good point.

    The "correct" Republican position, in my opinion, is that this issue should be decided by each individual state, and not by little dictators in black robes.

    Does anyone doubt that the radical Left wants to destroy the institution of marriage, outlaw Christianity, and destroy anyone who disagrees?

    Homofascism is on display in this topic.


    Yeah, because calling for equal rights is so fascistic.
  • turtleneckjoc...

    Posts: 4685

    Jul 27, 2014 7:58 PM GMT
    CuriousJockAZ said
    DCguy1999 saidIt's a strange strategy for winning over Republicans/conservatives and hastening the broad acceptance of gay marriage to tell a GOP congressmen to go f*ck himself when he changes his position from opposing legal recognition of gay marriage to endorsing it.

    Democrats deserve all of the credit for courageously leading on this issue, and history will record how they paved the way. But let's not spit in the face of Republicans who are belately coming around. We WANT them to come around!



    ^^^^ THIS ^^^^


    Agree here too, however, once they come around...they need to STAY around.

    Local note: Piggybacking on declaring Florida's State Constitutional Amendment declaring banning sex marriage--and the attempts to overturn it, all but two Orange County Commissioners (Orlando area) announced their support of the repeal.

    The two, County Mayor and Lead Bitch Teresa Jacobs and Commissioner Fred Brummer (Apopka) turned their backs on us. Supporting the cause county-wide and joining our only Democrat Tiffany Moore Russell include Scott Boyd, Pete Clarke and Jennifer Thompson. No comment from Commissioner Ted Edwards yet.

    The full story:

    http://www.watermarkonline.com/2014/07/24/orange-county-commissioners-express-support-for-marriage-equality/