Why Are the Rich Coldhearted?

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 25, 2014 11:13 PM GMT
    NYT: Can people in high positions of power — presidents, bosses, celebrities, even dominant spouses — easily empathize with those beneath them?

    Psychological research suggests the answer is no. Studies have repeatedly shown that participants who are in high positions of power (or who are temporarily induced to feel powerful) are less able to adopt the visual, cognitive or emotional perspective of other people, compared to participants who are powerless (or are made to feel so).

    For example, Michael Kraus, a psychologist now at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and two colleagues found that among full-time employees of a public university, those who were higher in social class (as determined by level of education) were less able to accurately identify emotions in photographs of human faces than were co-workers who were lower in social class.

    Why does power leave people seemingly coldhearted? We suggest a reason from cognitive neuroscience: When people experience power, their brains fundamentally change how sensitive they are to the actions of others.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/are-the-rich-coldhearted.html
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Jul 25, 2014 11:56 PM GMT
    Most rich people are cold hearted because they forgot where they originated from and don't give a shit. One of my older brothers is a good example of a self made successful man who has forgotten about his working class origins. I have worked for this miserable bastards little auditing and bill paying company for 12 years and still getting paid pittance. His favorite excuse is that we were all born poor, do something about it. He doesn't realize that not everyone had the access to opportunities like he did when he was younger. Here I am his own brother and he pays me shit but yet I am considered a good employee but I still don't meet his expectations which are mostly unrealistic. But that is most businessmen these days. They want more from you but yet they don't want to pay you more and than wonder why no one has any respect for them. Go figure.
  • kew1

    Posts: 1595

    Jul 26, 2014 6:07 AM GMT
    http://edition.cnn.com/2014/05/29/business/psychopath-andy-mcnab/?
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 875

    Jul 26, 2014 9:49 AM GMT
    The reason many people endeavour to become rich and powerful is for everything around them to change. If they wanted to stay both poor and powerless, I doubt they'd be putting much effort into anything.

    Now, a big number of people would like to think that the guys who are achievers, are investing all they can, so that they can help them, the less fortunate ones. This is a sad example of wishful thinking coupled with a serious case of narcissism.

    I was born in a very privileged family. I was the only kid, too. I got my first part-time job at 14. By the age of 17, I was having a very lucrative summer job. I held a part-time job, and a full-time summer job while in college. Nothing changed here until I post-graduated. My folks continued to be very generous despite my independent income. By the age of 24 I stopped balancing my checkbook, and lived in my own, fully-paid home.

    The folks I worked for showed absolutely no empathy towards anyone including themselves, and their own children. So, while the other dudes were sleeping in, I was getting up at 4am to write my papers, do extra work, and take care of the urgent matters. All of this was my choice. I did not feel sorry of myself, and consequently, I do not feel sorry for anyone else, regardless of what they choose to do or not do.

    It is your life. You call the shots.

    SC
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    Jul 27, 2014 2:34 AM GMT
    woodsmen saidNYT: Can people in high positions of power — presidents, bosses, celebrities, even dominant spouses — easily empathize with those beneath them?

    Psychological research suggests the answer is no. Studies have repeatedly shown that participants who are in high positions of power (or who are temporarily induced to feel powerful) are less able to adopt the visual, cognitive or emotional perspective of other people, compared to participants who are powerless (or are made to feel so).

    For example, Michael Kraus, a psychologist now at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and two colleagues found that among full-time employees of a public university, those who were higher in social class (as determined by level of education) were less able to accurately identify emotions in photographs of human faces than were co-workers who were lower in social class.

    Why does power leave people seemingly coldhearted? We suggest a reason from cognitive neuroscience: When people experience power, their brains fundamentally change how sensitive they are to the actions of others.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/are-the-rich-coldhearted.html


    The study sampled full time employees of a public university -- a group that's far more likely to be at the liberal/left end of the political scale than the general population.

    It would be interesting to see this study conducted among other groups -- samples of the population as a whole and of those who identify as conservative.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2014 5:31 AM GMT
    "If I ever get real rich, I hope I'm not mean to poor people, like I am now."
    -Deep Thoughts by Jack Handy
  • roadbikeRob

    Posts: 14389

    Jul 27, 2014 3:18 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud saidThe reason many people endeavour to become rich and powerful is for everything around them to change. If they wanted to stay both poor and powerless, I doubt they'd be putting much effort into anything.

    Now, a big number of people would like to think that the guys who are achievers, are investing all they can, so that they can help them, the less fortunate ones. This is a sad example of wishful thinking coupled with a serious case of narcissism.

    I was born in a very privileged family. I was the only kid, too. I got my first part-time job at 14. By the age of 17, I was having a very lucrative summer job. I held a part-time job, and a full-time summer job while in college. Nothing changed here until I post-graduated. My folks continued to be very generous despite my independent income. By the age of 24 I stopped balancing my checkbook, and lived in my own, fully-paid home.

    The folks I worked for showed absolutely no empathy towards anyone including themselves, and their own children. So, while the other dudes were sleeping in, I was getting up at 4am to write my papers, do extra work, and take care of the urgent matters. All of this was my choice. I did not feel sorry of myself, and consequently, I do not feel sorry for anyone else, regardless of what they choose to do or not do.

    It is your life. You call the shots.

    SC
    Much easier said than done. Since you grew up as a privileged only child in an affluent family, you just don't understand what the less fortunate like myself have to face thanks to this screwed up economic system and severely limited opportunities and most wages at or slightly above minimum wage. Not everyone has equal access to success in life, there are too many unrealistic, unattainable requirements and everything costs a shitload of money.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 27, 2014 4:14 PM GMT
    Y'all remember this guy, right?

    David Siegel, star of documentary "Queen of Versailles", in an October 2012 letter to his employeesSo where am I going with all this? It's quite simple. If any new taxes are levied on me, or my company, as our current President plans, I will have no choice but to reduce the size of this company. Rather than grow this company I will be forced to cut back. This means fewer jobs, less benefits and certainly less opportunity for everyone.

    So, when you make your decision to vote, ask yourself, which candidate understands the economics of business ownership and who doesn't? Whose policies will endanger your job? Answer those questions and you should know who might be the one capable of protecting and saving your job. While the media wants to tell you to believe the "1 percenters" are bad, I'm telling you they are not. They create most of the jobs. If you lose your job, it won't be at the hands of the "1%"; it will be at the hands of a political hurricane that swept through this country.

    You see, I can no longer support a system that penalizes the productive and gives to the unproductive. My motivation to work and to provide jobs will be destroyed, and with it, so will your opportunities. If that happens, you can find me in the Caribbean sitting on the beach, under a palm tree, retired, and with no employees to worry about.

    Signed, your boss


    Well, the not-so-poor bastard didn't get what he wanted this time. So, what happened to him, and his companies, and his "largest house in the U.S.", and his threatened employees? Funny that you ask that!

    http://www.dailykos.com/story/2014/07/25/1316539/-That-FL-CEO-Who-Said-He-d-FIRE-Everyone-if-Obama-Elected-Guess-What-Happened

    "SemDem" (Daily Kos)Instead of his company being dragged down by the evil black man in the Oval Office, his company started flourishing again. The Obama recovery saw companies make record profits, and Siegel's was no exception. Today, Westgate is doing better than ever. Under Obama, we also have had the best stock market in history, so investors like Siegel made out like bandits. (Obama=worst socialist ever).

    Instead of firing, Siegel has had to hire more people. Since his employees were finally able to get reasonably-priced health insurance, he was free to invest his money in all kinds of things. He bought the Orlando Predators. He also bought a massive hotel/casino in Las Vegas. Saints be praised, he was even able to finally start work again on his gaudy, 90,000 square foot house complete with a bowling alley, a 30-car garage, and a roller-skating rink.


    "But I'd have THREE roller rinks by now if it wasn't for my buffoon employees putting Obama back in office!" (Siegel, probably).
  • Lincsbear

    Posts: 2605

    Jul 28, 2014 9:17 PM GMT
    The study`s findings certainly chime with my own experience: as status and income rise, the empathy falls off. The peope who are best at appreciating others` feelings seem to be the lower status/poorer individuals.

    Explaining it is harder. It may be they don`t need to win other people`s trust and loyalty, etc. as much(they have power or income to secure what they want), so pay less attention to their fellow man.

    Isaac Asimov has written on this subject in futuristic settings where technology and material affluence have broken the social contract between people and isolated everyone from his neighbour.

    If the study has hit upon a truth then rising affluence is a very mixed blessing for our societies: as we beome richer we have less and less concern for each other; a colder, harsher, disintegrating world paradoxically overflowing with materialism. This is bad news for our mental well being.

    We may be progressing in only very narrowly defined, and rather useless, ways.
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    Jul 28, 2014 10:45 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidNYT: Can people in high positions of power — presidents, bosses, celebrities, even dominant spouses — easily empathize with those beneath them?

    Psychological research suggests the answer is no. Studies have repeatedly shown that participants who are in high positions of power (or who are temporarily induced to feel powerful) are less able to adopt the visual, cognitive or emotional perspective of other people, compared to participants who are powerless (or are made to feel so).

    For example, Michael Kraus, a psychologist now at the University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign, and two colleagues found that among full-time employees of a public university, those who were higher in social class (as determined by level of education) were less able to accurately identify emotions in photographs of human faces than were co-workers who were lower in social class.

    Why does power leave people seemingly coldhearted? We suggest a reason from cognitive neuroscience: When people experience power, their brains fundamentally change how sensitive they are to the actions of others.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/07/27/opinion/sunday/are-the-rich-coldhearted.html


    Do you and most of the other people posting here ever get tired of parroting the same tired line of bullshit? Don't you get tired of bitching about taxing the rich and putting your less than "coldhearted" money where your mouth is?

    As a business man owning several businesses and more than a few assets, I'm what, most of, you would call rich.

    I wonder exactly where all of you think the funding comes from for many of the things you see everyday, yet never question. Maybe the Op could answer that for me.

    Who is it, do you think that funds local little league?

    Who is it you think who funds the arts so all the starving artists don't have to actually get a job or makes it possible for someone who otherwise could not afford a box at the Opera, Ballet or Symphony?

    Who do you think it is who funds the local shelters and soup kitchens?

    Who do you think it is who makes it possible for students to participate in such programs as Junior Achievement?

    Who do you think endows Universities with scholarships?

    I wonder how many hungry people do you feed?

    How many homeless children have you adopted?

    How many people do you employ and provide benefits for?

    How often do you open up your home for charitable events that benefit the community?

    What percentage of your income do you suppose you give to charity?

    I could go on and on about what the cold hard cash from the "coldhearted" rich like people I do business does, then again why? People like the op and most of the posters will never get it and will never start to put their money where their mouths are, so what's the point?
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    Jul 28, 2014 10:50 PM GMT
    SilverRRCloud saidThe reason many people endeavour to become rich and powerful is for everything around them to change. If they wanted to stay both poor and powerless, I doubt they'd be putting much effort into anything.

    Now, a big number of people would like to think that the guys who are achievers, are investing all they can, so that they can help them, the less fortunate ones. This is a sad example of wishful thinking coupled with a serious case of narcissism.

    I was born in a very privileged family. I was the only kid, too. I got my first part-time job at 14. By the age of 17, I was having a very lucrative summer job. I held a part-time job, and a full-time summer job while in college. Nothing changed here until I post-graduated. My folks continued to be very generous despite my independent income. By the age of 24 I stopped balancing my checkbook, and lived in my own, fully-paid home.

    The folks I worked for showed absolutely no empathy towards anyone including themselves, and their own children. So, while the other dudes were sleeping in, I was getting up at 4am to write my papers, do extra work, and take care of the urgent matters. All of this was my choice. I did not feel sorry of myself, and consequently, I do not feel sorry for anyone else, regardless of what they choose to do or not do.

    It is your life. You call the shots.

    SC


    Dude, are you serious? This is the same caricature of rich people that is perpetuated by cheese television and even cheesier unreal Liberals.

    Not all of us who are successful are as self centered as you are and as you pretend we are. Most of us are self made and if you behaved the you portray us we would never have made it to where we are. The vast majority of us who are successful realize we have a responsibility to help create the kind of community we want to live in and give back accordingly.
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    Jul 28, 2014 11:17 PM GMT
    Lincsbear saidThe study`s findings certainly chime with my own experience: as status and income rise, the empathy falls off. The peope who are best at appreciating others` feelings seem to be the lower status/poorer individuals.

    Empathy is a word people like you who do nothing use to justify their doing nothing while using the word "empathy" to bludgeon the people who actually put their money where their mouth is. The fact is, I don't have the time to sit down and ponder how someone feels about a situation because I'm busy making the money and the time to address the situation! "Empathy" is a wordused way too much by people to allow them to feel good about the fact that they are doing nothing!

    Explaining it is harder. It may be they don`t need to win other people`s trust and loyalty, etc. as much(they have power or income to secure what they want), so pay less attention to their fellow man.

    "It may be that they don't need to win other people's trust and loyalty", did it ever occur to you that maybe they are too busy trying to succeed and take care of their families and then some to care what you may think of them? Pay less attention to their fellow man? What a line of bullshit. As I already pointed out where is it you think the lion's share of funding for all those things the government doesn't pick up the tab for comes from? Can you tell me which poor man employs you (if you aren't a government worker)?

    Isaac Asimov has written on this subject in futuristic settings where technology and material affluence have broken the social contract between people and isolated everyone from his neighbour.

    does it ever occur to you that the social contract I have is to take care of my family so that someone else doesn't have to and anything over that is not my "social contract" but my charity and up to me to give? I always find it interesting that the people who speak of "social contracts" are the people who benefit the most from forcing me into a "social contract" against my free will.

    If the study has hit upon a truth then rising affluence is a very mixed blessing for our societies: as we become richer we have less and less concern for each other; a colder, harsher, disintegrating world paradoxically overflowing with materialism. This is bad news for our mental well being.

    Why do people like you purport to speak for people like me? You assume that because I would like to keep the lion's share of what my success has created rather than allow those, like you who have done less than I, take it from me, that I am selfish. I wonder how often do you post in the streets your address and leave a key to allow people to come into your house and take what they want from you?

    We may be progressing in only very narrowly defined, and rather useless, ways.


    Useless to whom? To those like you and the Op who would like those if us who are successful to work our asses off and give you the larger portion of what we create? The question I have for people like you is, if 10% is good enough for god, why isn't it enough for you?
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    Jul 28, 2014 11:57 PM GMT
    god who? icon_twisted.gif
  • buddycat

    Posts: 1874

    Jul 28, 2014 11:58 PM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidMost rich people are cold hearted because they forgot where they originated from and don't give a shit. One of my older brothers is a good example of a self made successful man who has forgotten about his working class origins. I have worked for this miserable bastards little auditing and bill paying company for 12 years and still getting paid pittance. His favorite excuse is that we were all born poor, do something about it. He doesn't realize that not everyone had the access to opportunities like he did when he was younger. Here I am his own brother and he pays me shit but yet I am considered a good employee but I still don't meet his expectations which are mostly unrealistic. But that is most businessmen these days. They want more from you but yet they don't want to pay you more and than wonder why no one has any respect for them. Go figure.


    Many rich people originated rich, they just got richer or stayed rich. For instance, Donald Trump's father was worth 100 million.
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    Jul 29, 2014 12:55 AM GMT
    That's the problem with some of the rich.....they think that people with less money are "beneath them".

    Billionaires think Millionaires are slackers, the middle class are pathetic and the poor deserve what they get. NOTHING if it was their choice.

    How many of the rich got their money by hard work?


    "Rich parents pass along more than just money to their kids. They also pass along social and cultural capital that help their kids capture the scarce supply of highly-paid jobs. Indeed, even rich kids who do not receive a college degree are 2.5 times more likely to wind up as high-income adults than poor kids who do receive a college degree. That is not because of money transfers, but it's unfair intergenerational advantage nonetheless."

    http://www.demos.org/blog/1/21/14/reality-wealthy-inherit-ungodly-sums-money


    It's All in the Genes

    Inheritance is clearly one of the proven pathways to getting rich. About one-third of the 50 richest Americans can tie their wealth directly to being the fortunate son or daughter of wealthy parents. Now, to be fair, many of these people received the golden baton from their parents and managed to run even further with it – but the fact that they proved themselves to be good runners in their own right does not erase the reality that they began they race with a sizable head start.

    http://www.investopedia.com/financial-edge/0211/how-the-rich-got-that-way.aspx

    Certainly some become rich all on their own, mostly tech, or a brilliant idea, physical ability or incredibly fortunate good luck. Hard work often. But nepotism, money marriages, social standing, connections, etc. are very often a part of it that many of the rich seem to "forget". And the ones who forget that are the most likely to muse about how ungrateful the poor are.

    Henry Ford, one of the most racist, egotistical self centered industrialists, understood the value of a living wage. That selling his product to his own employees made economic sense.
  • venue35

    Posts: 4644

    Jul 29, 2014 9:23 AM GMT
    Being rich is nice. I would travel the world. And give something to charity now and then so that i wouldn't feel guilty about being rich..
    You know like the women i see on the metro who will give a euro to a junkie
    and then there face is absolutely glowing from their kindness...
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    Jul 29, 2014 8:30 PM GMT
    timmm55 saidThat's the problem with some of the rich.....they think that people with less money are "beneath them".

    Maybe you could fill us in on how you know what any of the "rich" think?

    Billionaires think Millionaires are slackers, the middle class are pathetic and the poor deserve what they get. NOTHING if it was their choice.

    Again, how, exactly do you know what Billionaires and Millionaires think about anyone? You do know that the Real Housewives is television and they get chosen for being outrageous and not for being typical? Are you hobnobbing with many Billionaires and Millionaires?


    How many of the rich got their money by hard work?




    Maybe you could explain what you mean by "rich" ?

    You, like so many other people who are experts on the subject of the rich conflate the 0.5% mega rich with the "rich". There is a huge difference between the 0.5% and the rest of the top 1%. Did you know that the people between the top 1 to 0.5% have seen their share of the national wealth remain flat for the past 20 years? Did you know their share of the pie has basically remained the same as it was in 1995?
    Did you know that those between the top 0.5% and the top 0.1% have barely seen any increase in their share of wealth? Those in the top 0.5% tend to be winners in the financial markets while the rest of the 1% are wage earners and business owners.

    Are the rich you refer to people with a certain level of assets?
    You are aware that there are occupations that are asset heavy and cash poor, and therefore would, on paper make someone a multi-millionaire and yet they barely make ends meet? For example, farmers and ranchers net worth are tied up in land, livestock and machinery and on paper a particular farmer may be worth $50 million, yet due to the nature of farming and barrowing and repayment of loans a farmer worth $50 million on paper would need months to raise $10,000.

    Are the "rich" you're referring to rich based on their annual earnings?
    You are aware that earning an income of $389,000/yr places a person in the top 1% of earners? Has it occurred to you that among those in the top 1% are business owners who, because of the income tax structure in the U.S. , actually take home far less than the amount of earnings that placed them in the top 1% of earners? For example, the owner of a printing ink supplier is taxed on the $6 million/yr earned by the company, yet actually takes home only $100,000/yr.

    Are the "rich" you refer to those with a combination of a certain level of assets and a high income? If that's the case, a good portion of those "rich" would still be paper tigers. For example, the owner of a bindery, because of the high cost of equipment (a single piece of equipment can cost more than $1 million) is asset rich, the business also earns $10 million/year which is taxed as the owners income even though the two owners take home only $200,000/yr each.

    I'm sure when you were discussing the "rich", you took these "rich" people into account since you know what "rich" people feel, you must obviously know "rich people".


    "How many of the rich got their money by hard work?"

    Again I have to ask, how many "rich" people do you know who haven't "got their money by hard work"?

    According to information compiled by Thomas J. Stanley, Ph.D and William D. Danko, Ph.D, who have been studying millionaires and the rich longer than anyone else the impression that you and so many others try to paint of the "rich" really has no basis in reality.
    From their research the typical millionaire is:

    *a 57 year old male, married with three children who earn about 70) or more of their households income.

    *One in five are retired. 2/3 of those who are working are self employees (it's interesting that the self employed make up less than 20% of American workers yet account for 2/3 of the millionaires). 3 out of 4 of those who are self employed consider themselves entrepreneurs while most of the others are self employed professionals (doctors, lawyers, accountants etc.).

    *Many of the businesses these people are in are considered dullnormal (welding contractors, auctioneers, farmers and ranchers, owners of mobile-home parks, pest controllers, salvage yard owners, coin and stamp dealers paving contractors, lawn care providers etc).

    *about half of their wives do not work outside the home. The number-one occupation for those wives who do work is teacher.

    *Their households' total annual realized (taxable) income averages $131,000 (the average income is $247,000). Those with annual incomes of $500,000 and $999,999 make up 8% of millionaires. Incomes of $1 million or more make up 5% of millionaires (the higher incomes skew the average incomes higher).

    *The average net worth of millionaires is 3.7 million. Less than 6% are worth more than $10 million (again the higher net worths skew the average upward. The median millionaire has a household income of $1.6 million. ).

    * Average total annual realized income is less than 7% of the household wealth ( or millionaires live on less than 7% of their wealth).

    *97% are homeowners, living in homes with an average value of $320,000 (about half of them have lived in the same house for over 20 years).

    *Roughly 80% are first generation wealthy. Most have never felt disadvantaged because they did not receive an inheritance.

    *Most live well below their means. Drive American-made cars, wear inexpensive suits and only a minority drive a current model car or lease vehicles.

    *Most of the wives of millionaires are meticulous planners and budgeters.

    *Nearly all have an emergency fund off of which they could live without working for 10 years or more. On average they save 15% of their earned income.

    Most have more than 6 and a half times the level of wealth of their nonmillionaire neighbors and friends. In their neighborhoods nonmillionaires outnumber them by better than three to one. Most have chosen to trade accumulating wealth over acquiring high-status material possessions.

    As a group they are fairly educated. About four in five are college graduates (18% have masters degrees, 8% law degrees, 6% medical degrees and 6% PHDs.).

    *only 17% of them or their spouses have ever attended private schools, but 55% of their children do or have attended private schools.

    *As a group they believe education is extremely important for themselves and their children and grandchildren and spend heavily on the educations of their children.

    *About 2/3 of them work between 40 and 50 hours a week.

    *On average they invest 20% of their household realized income each year. Most invest at least 15%. Most of them make their own investment decisions.

    *On average 20% of the household wealth is in transaction securities and publicly traded stocks and mutual funds. They rarely sale equity investments. Even more of the household wealth is held in pension plans. On average 21% of the household wealth in their businesses.

    As a group they tend to help their daughters financially, while expecting that their sons be able to support themselves without subsidies from their parents.

    There are 3.5 million millionaire households in the U.S. The majority of millionaire households favor their children enter careers providing valuable services to affluent people such as accountants and attorneys with tax advisors and estate planners figuring in high on the list.

    * Millionaires, as a group are what the general public refers to as tightwads. They don't waste money on the frivolities of the general public.


    A very different picture than what you and others are trying to paint.
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    Jul 29, 2014 9:32 PM GMT
    shybuffguy said
    Again, how, exactly do you know what Billionaires and Millionaires think about anyone? You do know that the Real Housewives is television and they get chosen for being outrageous and not for being typical? [Nope never watched it, is your favorite?]Are you hobnobbing with many Billionaires and Millionaires?



    A very different picture than what you and others are trying to paint.


    So only the rich can speak for the rich? Do you all think the same? Do I "and others" all think the same? Do you see it as an "us vs them" scenario? How dare a poor person even speak of such things! What an elitist attitude! Read the links.

    Hobnob??? Really??? :"mix socially, especially with those of higher social status." Archaic and pretentious! I socialize regardless of economic or social standing. I've worked at the Jonathan Club where being a millionaire is virtually a prerequisite. My sister married a mufti-millionaire. My ex's step father was. And I've had a few friends who were too. I also have friends who are dirt poor. Rich or poor my friends are good people.
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    Jul 29, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    and the poor deserve what they get. NOTHING if it was their choice.


    Your quote:

    "does it ever occur to you that the social contract I have is to take care of my family so that someone else doesn't have to and anything over that is not my "social contract" but my charity and up to me to give? I always find it interesting that the people who speak of "social contracts" are the people who benefit the most from forcing me into a "social contract" against my free will."


    You seem to loath the safety nets that are for the poor. Social Security, taxes, Medicare, minimum (living) wage, etc. are all social contracts YOU sign on to by doing business in the USA. You resent it? Move to England or Norway. Or maybe the corrupt mafia free-for-all in Russia?

    The rich are the first to bitch about giving, but they sure as hell feel entitled to Government programs, money and contracts! They are more often unethical http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/27/health/rich-more-unethical/ lie and cheat more than the "common" person.


    "+Paul Piff of the University of California at Berkeley told PsyPost “there is something about wealth that gives rise to a sense of entitlement, a sense that one deserves more good things in life than others, which in turn gives rise to an increased or inflated sense of self-importance, vanity, grandiosity, and omnipotence (narcissism).”"
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/study-finds-wealth-gives-rise-to-a-sense-of-entitlement-and-narcissistic-behaviors/

    [size=15]5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me[/size]


    http://www.alternet.org/economy/5-ways-rich-peoples-entitlements-cheat-you-and-me
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    Jul 30, 2014 12:24 AM GMT
    Did you bother to think this reply through? You didn't really help yourself.
    timmm55 said
    shybuffguy said
    Again, how, exactly do you know what Billionaires and Millionaires think about anyone? You do know that the Real Housewives is television and they get chosen for being outrageous and not for being typical? [Nope never watched it, is your favorite?]Are you hobnobbing with many Billionaires and Millionaires?
    Actually, I watch very little television, I'm way too busy counting my money and ridding around town in my Rolls being coldhearted toward the less fortunate (sarcasm, incase you missed it).



    A very different picture than what you and others are trying to paint.


    So only the rich can speak for the rich?No, apparently only you think that you do, since you've already so eloquently done (Again sarcasm). Do you all think the same?Since you speak for us, why don't you tell me. You've already said we did, did you not? Do I "and others" all think the same? The difference between you and me is, I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt. The truth is that when one bangs the class warfare drum a lot of others rush to join in. Do you see it as an "us vs them" scenario? Again, you already answered that question in your previous post, did you not? As I said, you know nothing about what you are talking about. If those of us who become successful thought of other people in the way you suggest, we would never be able to get where we are. Most of us just want more for ourselves and our families than you do and worked to get there. How dare a poor person even speak of such things! I think you have that backwards. Let a "rich" person tell you why they are where they are and you are not and see if you think they should be able to speak on their behalf.What an elitist attitude! "Elitist attitude" ? The only one I'm seeing is yours. You presume to speak for a whole group and then become indignant when someone calls you on your shit? What gives you a right to pretend that you understand or speak for a group of people you know nothing about? Read the links.

    Hobnob??? Really??? :"mix socially, especially with those of higher social status." Archaic and pretentious! "Pretentious", not at all. Since you presume to speak for a whole group of people of whom you are not one, I simply asked if your great knowledge was gained by socializing with that group of people you spoke so disparagingly about. I socialize regardless of economic or social standing.Now who is being "pretentious" ? I've worked at the Jonathan Club where being a millionaire is virtually a prerequisite.Wait, you know what "rich" people think because you worked at a club? You know that the patrons were millionaires, how? did the club require a spread sheet and verification of income? My sister married a mufti-millionaire. My ex's step father was. And I've had a few friends who were too. On the outside looking in? A little jealous maybe? Perhaps, an ax to grind? I also have friends who are dirt poor. Rich or poor my friends are good people. And in typical fashion, only the "rich" people who are your friends could possible be good people. You have no clue how jealous and unhinged you sound, do you?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 30, 2014 12:53 AM GMT
    timmm55 said
    timmm55 said
    and the poor deserve what they get. NOTHING if it was their choice.

    If you have no more ambition to go farther in life than you have, that was choice you made, not me. I am not responsible for what you or anyone elses does with your life just as you have no responsibility or claim on what I did with my life.


    Your quote:

    "does it ever occur to you that the social contract I have is to take care of my family so that someone else doesn't have to and anything over that is not my "social contract" but my charity and up to me to give? I always find it interesting that the people who speak of "social contracts" are the people who benefit the most from forcing me into a "social contract" against my free will."


    You seem to loath the safety nets that are for the poor. Social Security, taxes, Medicare, minimum (living) wage, etc. are all social contracts YOU sign on to by doing business in the USA. You resent it? Move to England or Norway. Or maybe the corrupt mafia free-for-all in Russia?

    As I've already pointed out, the only social contract I have is to take care of my family so others do not have to.
    As for safety nets, I have no problems with them. However, it is not my responsibility to provide one for you or anyone else other than myself, my family and those who are in my employ. Social Security and Medicare, I provide my share of that for my employees in the form of payroll taxes. Minimum (living) wage, I provide the going wage for my employees based on their experience, if they think they can make more somewhere else, they are not serfs tied to me or my businesses, and are free to seek such.
    By virtue of opening my doors for business, I have signed no "social contracts" with you or anyone else. The only people I have contracts with are the people I do business with and my employees.
    As for my taxes, I pay taxes for things I don't even benefit from.


    The rich are the first to bitch about giving, but they sure as hell feel entitled to Government programs, money and contracts! They are more often unethical http://www.cnn.com/2012/02/27/health/rich-more-unethical/ lie and cheat more than the "common" person.

    No, let me correct you, the "rich" don't bitch about giving, what they bitch about is having it taken from them. Giving something freely and having it forcible taken from you are not the same thing. By the way, just so you know government contracts are not an entitlement. When you contract with someone to do something for a stated price, don't you expect to be paid at the end of the contract? Of course not, I'm sure you are willing to eat the costs of payroll and benefits to donate your costs instead of being paid as per the contract, right?


    "+Paul Piff of the University of California at Berkeley told PsyPost “there is something about wealth that gives rise to a sense of entitlement, a sense that one deserves more good things in life than others, which in turn gives rise to an increased or inflated sense of self-importance, vanity, grandiosity, and omnipotence (narcissism).”"
    http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/08/25/study-finds-wealth-gives-rise-to-a-sense-of-entitlement-and-narcissistic-behaviors/

    [size=15]5 Ways Rich People's "Entitlements" Cheat You and Me[/size]


    http://www.alternet.org/economy/5-ways-rich-peoples-entitlements-cheat-you-and-me


    Seriously! You have the nerve to lecture me about entitlements after your bullshit about my social contract to provide a safety net for you? What is a safety net , if not entitlements? How do you and mister Paul Piff expect someone to actually take you serious when you refer to someone want to keep what they have created and earned instead of allowing someone to forcible take it from them and then refer to it as "inflated self importance and entitlement"? I'm sure both Mr. Piff and you both take turns posting your address along with a key to your homes in the streets and invite anyone who likes to come into your home and take from you what ever they may want, Until the two of you do so, you are both hypocrites!
  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Jul 30, 2014 1:03 AM GMT
    This thread is just going to be an ejaculation of Karl Marx lovers and Adam Smith fanboys.

    Here we go...icon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gificon_biggrin.gif
  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Jul 30, 2014 1:03 AM GMT
    Actually, scrap that: it already is that
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Jul 30, 2014 1:11 AM GMT
    Someone has a Superiority Complex!
  • jaroslav123

    Posts: 600

    Jul 30, 2014 1:18 AM GMT
    timmm55 saidSomeone has a Superiority Complex!


    I hope you're talking about me icon_twisted.gif