Sage advice needed from the awesome guys here on RealJock

  • Gayroy65

    Posts: 9

    Jul 27, 2014 11:19 AM GMT
    OK guys, a little back story first.

    I live in the UK and I've been with my partner for a little over 3 years. We've been doing the whole long distance thing for 2 years. I recently graduated from university and the plan was to find a job in the city where he lives and move in together.

    The problem.

    After graduating, 9 people from my class were selected to exhibit our work at the New Designers Exhibition in London (it was a graphic communication degree). During the course of the exhibition a representative from SCAD (Savannah College of Art & Design) approached me and wanted me to apply to do a masters with them. My partner isn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of me studying in the US for 2 years, and I don't think we'd survive if I did move.

    So now, do I risk my relationship and take the amazing opportunity to move to the States where I would learn design from a whole new perspective and have the chance to study in the South of France and Japan, with a possible full scholarship, but with a serious chance of ending up single.

    Or do I move to Manchester get a job with a reputable studio and settle for an incredibly happy home life with an amazing man who I love, but end up having mediocre career with little chance of making a large impact within my industry?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.
  • frogman89

    Posts: 418

    Jul 27, 2014 11:42 AM GMT
    I'm afraid none of us is able to give you proper advice. This is a decision nobody can make for you.

    You have to go by your guts. What is more important to you? Your career or your partner?
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    Jul 27, 2014 11:47 AM GMT
    The Masters program at SCAD is not guaranteed, correct? This was just an offer (or suggestion) that you APPLY for their program, yes?

    Can you apply, and see if you're even accepted? You can always turn it down. In the meantime you can continue to explore your options.

    Are there comparable degree programs in the UK, and with financial assistance? And located closer to your partner? Is a US program really that unique & superior, the only one that incorporates other international studies? (Admittedly I don't know this field)

    I agree more education could earn you more money in a better situation, as well as make you better at what you want to do in many cases. I presume your partner himself cannot relocate from Manchester.

    I would apply to SCAD and see what happens. And immediately begin to research your own UK Masters options. Perhaps being approached by SCAD, and even accepted, will impress a British school with your potential, make you more competitive for acceptance there.
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:04 PM GMT
    frogman89 saidI'm afraid none of us is able to give you proper advice. This is a decision nobody can make for you.

    You have to go by your guts. What is more important to you? Your career or your partner?


    Speak for yourself.
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:10 PM GMT
    I had a very similar opportunity when I was 25. It took some tough love on my part and his part, but he picked up everything and moved with me across the United States to Florida. It was only a few years and then we got the chance to move to Dallas which is much closer to both our families. When you're in Love, there are sacrifices that have to be made on a daily basis. Some, just bigger than others.
  • Gayroy65

    Posts: 9

    Jul 27, 2014 12:10 PM GMT
    No, it's not guaranteed. Although the guy I spoke to said that given my grades, portfolio & resume, and the fact that they really want international student he said he doubts there would be a problem. I have been in constant contact with him over the last month.

    I have started the application process, it was my plan to apply and see what happens.

    I've looked into masters programmes here in the UK. However none of them offer the scope of classes that SCAD do. Also it's the experience of learning over seas. Design attitudes vary greatly between the UK and US, not to mention the different approaches in Europe and Japan.

    As for my partner, he's originally from California, and he's actually quite against moving back to the States.


  • Gayroy65

    Posts: 9

    Jul 27, 2014 12:14 PM GMT
    frogman89 saidI'm afraid none of us is able to give you proper advice. This is a decision nobody can make for you.

    You have to go by your guts. What is more important to you? Your career or your partner?


    I understand that only I can really make this decision. However it's something that I'm having difficulty with. I don't know what to do for the best, head or heart.

    I was just looking for some other perspectives.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 871

    Jul 27, 2014 12:16 PM GMT
    I cannot imagine loving someone, and standing in his way to achieve a better career, education, etc.

    I can also understand that being gone for two years may effectively end up a relationship, too.

    When all is said and done, a good, open discussion can resolve this issue.

    At times, things tend to look only black and white. When you look deeper, you see that there is usually a middle way somewhere which would require effort and expenditure on both sides but may produce desired results.

    SC
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:19 PM GMT
    Well... if your partner is from the states and thinks all of the US sucks, then perhaps he should stay in the UK and let you spread your wings and get an education.
    If there is enough Strength in your relationship, then it should survive just fine.
    No reason you can't visit each other once a month or every 6-8 weeks.
    You just have to look at this opportunity from a birds eye view and don't be too myopic.
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:19 PM GMT
    Gayroy65 saidOK guys, a little back story first.

    I live in the UK and I've been with my partner for a little over 3 years. We've been doing the whole long distance thing for 2 years. I recently graduated from university and the plan was to find a job in the city where he lives and move in together.

    The problem.

    After graduating, 9 people from my class were selected to exhibit our work at the New Designers Exhibition in London (it was a graphic communication degree). During the course of the exhibition a representative from SCAD (Savannah College of Art & Design) approached me and wanted me to apply to do a masters with them. My partner isn't exactly thrilled at the prospect of me studying in the US for 2 years, and I don't think we'd survive if I did move.

    So now, do I risk my relationship and take the amazing opportunity to move to the States where I would learn design from a whole new perspective and have the chance to study in the South of France and Japan, with a possible full scholarship, but with a serious chance of ending up single.

    Or do I move to Manchester get a job with a reputable studio and settle for an incredibly happy home life with an amazing man who I love, but end up having mediocre career with little chance of making a large impact within my industry?

    Any advice would be greatly appreciated.


    Savannah, GEORGIA?

    Get a three city report for yourself from:

    www.astrocartography.co.uk

    If you're less than 500 miles from your boyfriend, you may only dealing with two cities but you would have to pick a third city or ask their advice on a third city like I did. (There was one person I was helping with Locational Astrology and given how the angles crossed over a very short distance, there WAS a big difference.)

    I could look at the information myself and give you a ballpark idea of what you are or would be dealing with but I'd prefer to recommend you to someone more advanced than I am in this branch of Astrology.

    I would also need to check the Chinese Astrology of you two, the relationship Composite chart that is created by you two being together, the Synastry chart to see how you two energize each other, and each of your natal charts to see, particularly, each of your North Nodes, then your 7th house, then compare the houses of long distance travel--the 9th house.

    Second, what's in it for him?
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:24 PM GMT
    StephenOABC said
    Gayroy65 said


    Second, what's in it for him?

    Usually, just getting to stay with your partner is enough...
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:29 PM GMT
    Growth requires change. Only by going will you acquire a whole new unimaginable wealth of experiences.

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    Jul 27, 2014 12:45 PM GMT
    here are no awesome guys so who you are asking advise to?
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:45 PM GMT
    Gayroy65 said
    As for my partner, he's originally from California, and he's actually quite against moving back to the States.


    I'd like to see his Astro*Carto*Graphy map.

    There are at least a few GOOD reasons for being against moving back to the States:

    Go to this website and look at the graph on the cover of this book:

    http://www.georgertyler.com/about/george-tyler/

    what-went-wrong-cover.jpg

    Second:



    Oh yea, if I got away from a place I was quite against going back to, the resentment would be a bad mix for the relationship. You would definitely lose me if you asked me to go back to a place I was quite against going back to.

    You could lose him if he didn't go back with you and you could lose him if he did go back with you.

    For example, if I had to go back to NYC and my lover lived downtown or in Jersey City, or in Brooklyn with a view of downtown Manhattan, that would be a deal breaker.
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:48 PM GMT
    TheGuyNextDoor said
    StephenOABC said
    Gayroy65 said


    Second, what's in it for him?

    Usually, just getting to stay with your partner is enough...


    He's not a Stepford wife, is he?
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:53 PM GMT
    Thanks for reminding me to look at my plus and minus chart for Life in the U.S.



    Maybe this can be my weekend movie rental.
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    Jul 27, 2014 12:59 PM GMT
    I had a female lover/fiancee not follow me to a far away city. The relationship ended.
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    Jul 27, 2014 1:12 PM GMT
    That's always a tough one to consider but in the end you'll do what comes naturally.

    The more you tend to be a giver then you'll opt for love and risk regret. If you are a taker then you'll risk love and ignore regret, having tossed aside regard for others.

    Twice I opted for love, both now dead, the last dead after I'd quit my career early to sail the world with him. So now I find myself without my career, without the man I love, having aged some since then and facing the discrimination of ageism as I work on finding work and securing myself a new career that I hope will be more reliable than dead people into what's left of my future.

    Were I to find love again with my since acquired wisdom, I'd at least make a whole different set of mistakes. Luckily I'm an older gay man now so no gay man wants me, reducing my risk of making that mistake again.

    Life is always looking out for you, usually with one hand on the rug ready to pull. Oh that life, it has such an odd sense of humor.
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    Jul 27, 2014 1:16 PM GMT
    Gayroy65 saidNo, it's not guaranteed. Although the guy I spoke to said that given my grades, portfolio & resume, and the fact that they really want international student he said he doubts there would be a problem. I have been in constant contact with him over the last month.

    I have started the application process, it was my plan to apply and see what happens.

    I've looked into masters programmes here in the UK. However none of them offer the scope of classes that SCAD do. Also it's the experience of learning over seas. Design attitudes vary greatly between the UK and US, not to mention the different approaches in Europe and Japan.

    As for my partner, he's originally from California, and he's actually quite against moving back to the States.

    Good, you're moving forward with a plan, that hopefully will bring you closer to the solution you're seeking.

    I must note, however, and not meant as a criticism, that you already had a plan before this unexpected offer from SCAD. You were prepared to settle in Manchester, presumably with a good job prospect, and foregoing even a less attractive UK Masters programme (borrowing your charming Brit spelling). Or was a job a sure thing?

    Then you got thrown this unexpected curve ball, to use a US baseball term. I suppose life presents us with these sudden unplanned opportunities, and no reason we shouldn't consider exploiting them. But I can see how your partner would be caught seriously off-guard by this, a complete change from The Plan you guys had.

    Therefore he may need some special understanding & considerations by you, and certainly a good discussion, as others here suggest. And don't be surprised if he refuses to accept the SCAD situation, and gives you an ultimatum. Or waits until you're in the States to terminate the relationship.

    If you're willing to pay that price then proceed. I faced an impasse with my previous LTR (though not over education & career) and had to choose, how I came to be in Florida today. Sometimes you've gotta do these things. Just try to make sure they're for sound reasons, not shallow & elusive ones.
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    Jul 27, 2014 1:30 PM GMT
    if you and your partner feel secure and want to marry i would do the move to move to Manchester. you have to be very careful that the both of you can transition the distance relationship into a home life.

    Humans being what they are; if i were going to modify my career plans i would want the security of a marriage license.


    my thinking also is a career can be over in an afternoon.
  • Gayroy65

    Posts: 9

    Jul 27, 2014 1:45 PM GMT
    @art_deco

    A Masters was always on the cards, just not this soon and certainly never over seas. You're right, of course, this is a real curve ball and his feeling have to be taken into consideration.

    You've given me some great adivice on this, so thank you.

    P.s can we swap my "charming spelling" to my "correct/original/prebutchered spelling? Hehe icon_wink.gif

  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Jul 27, 2014 2:55 PM GMT
    What worries me a bit is that, apparently, the two of you haven't lived together for any period of time. Is that correct?

    I also agree with SilverRRCloud: "I cannot imagine loving someone, and standing in his way to achieve a better career, education, etc. I can also understand that being gone for two years may effectively end up [sic] a relationship, too."

    If I were in an LD relationship and my partner had a once in a lifetime opportunity, I'd be thrilled for him. Of course, I'd also be saddened and concerned if this also meant further distance, less opportunity to spend time together, and disappointment that what we'd been planning wasn't going to work out. Still, if I really felt this relationship was worth it, I'd be willing to make that sacrifice.

    Does he love you enough to postpone your being together, a sacrifice, and feel good about it? Enough to try and make it work despite the disappointment and distance?

    On the other hand, do you love him enough to not take this opportunity and feel good about it, feeling that the relationship is more important than your career? Will there be any emotional residue of resentment from one or the other once the choice is made? How will you feel if you give up this opportunity and then some time down the road your relationship doesn't work out? (That happens.)

    It's a tough one. If it were me, if my life, my passion, was closely tied to my career, what I wanted to achieve for myself, I'm afraid I'd have to come down on the side of taking the opportunity.

    ETA: I'll also say this… I'm of the opinion there are no absolute 'right' and 'wrong' decisions in life. Obviously some may be better than others. But there are up sides and down sides to most decisions of this kind. What really matters is how we live with ourselves, live with the consequences of our decisions (good and/or bad) , taking responsibility for having made them.
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    Jul 27, 2014 3:03 PM GMT
    You have two conflicting sentiments in "settle for an incredibly happy home life with an amazing man who I love".

    When I first read this, I focused on "incredibly happy" and thought "well, that's a no-brainer". I'll take happiness over money every time. However, when I read it again, I focused on the word "settle". How is being incredibly happy settling?

    If you want to put things in practical terms and base you decision on statistics (I'm an accountant), the more logical choice, given the available information, would be to go to SCAD. Once you get your Master's Degree, you will ALWAYS have it for the rest of your life. Most relationships don't last. Very sad.

    If it were me, I would choose love and incredible happiness and stay in the UK.

    Has anyone else even heard of Savannah having such a great design program (efficient American spelling)? I know I haven't. Are you sure that you are not having a case of "the jitters" and thinking that grass is always greener on the other side?
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    Jul 27, 2014 3:19 PM GMT
    Living here in Georgia, I can certainly confirm that SCAD isn't going anywhere. The opportunities to come to Savannah or Atlanta (they have a humongous campus outlet here, now) and take up their vastly growing programs to enrich your professional desires will be here for you 2, 5, 10 years from now, whenever you and your American-born partner are ready.

    Particularly since you've been apart for a little while, I lean toward you taking some time and building your relationship with your partner.

    There's no certainty that working in the UK would be significantly better with a SCAD degree in tow. And there's no certainty that your Manchester career would be "mediocre," as you suggest, without a SCAD degree. Even if it turns out to be mediocre by your perspective, you can take your experiences in Manchester and strengthen your eventual SCAD application even more.

    Plus, if you and your partner intend to be in the UK after you attain your master's degree in the US, building up your professional connections first for a few years will help out when it's time to return.

    I think the differential in marriage rights and benefits (between England/Wales and Georgia) and their related legal implications would be worthy of consideration as well. If you choose to wait a few years to come to the States, hopefully the discrepancy in recognition of married couples will be a thing of the past by then.
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    Jul 27, 2014 3:37 PM GMT
    A real and true Partner would not hold you back.

    If you both are committed to staying together, you can and must find a way.

    Distance anymore is almost irrelevant. Communication technology has grown leaps and bounds in the past few years alone. With such things as Skype and FaceTime, you'd never have to go a day without seeing one another.

    Sure it's not the same as person to person... but if something as basic as making the most of a career opportunity is enough to split you up, then perhaps your partnership is not as strong as you thought.