Dealing with internalised homophobia and anger at gay men

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2014 12:12 PM GMT
    Hi guys

    Many of you may know that I came out about four years ago and am now in a LTR and stuff. I had come from a Christian background which was pretty much a cultic environment - evangelical churches .

    So there's a lot of baggage I'm in therapy to undo.

    I have friends who have been treated so badly by gay men and I in the past have as well. I still have a massive amount of internalised homophobia which I don't want to carry and I'm interested in how others on here have handled the anger towards the scene, how vitriolic some gay men can be and the way I see a lot of dysfunctional people in the gay world .

    It's been the hardest thing in coming out and I'm STILL adjusting despite being in a LTR .
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    Aug 03, 2014 1:26 PM GMT
    I hadn't given it too much thought until your post. I see some vitriolic and dysfunctional gays, as you describe them, but they barely concern me. I suppose what I've done is build up a circle of well-adjusted gay friends that sorta isolates and immunizes me from the whack jobs.

    Instead of me against the loons it's us against the loons. Making me independent of those other guys, whom I can largely ignore, no interest or need for them at all. And when I can't get them entirely out of my life I have my decent friends as backup & support, to reassure each other it's really those other guys who are messed up, not us.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Aug 03, 2014 2:04 PM GMT
    Basically what Art said.

    But I find myself wondering exactly how "internalized homophobia" is related to "anger towards the scene, how vitriolic some gay men can be and the way I see a lot of dysfunctional people in the gay world."

    Are you saying your "internalized homophobia" is causing you to judge other people as "vitriolic" and "dysfunctional"?

    I guess to me they are two different things. There are a lot of people in this world I don't 'like' or feel comfortable with. Some are gay, some aren't. Or, rather, to me their sexual orientation doesn't have anything to do with it.

    Are you saying that discovering there are messed up gay people is making it more difficult to accept yourself?

    I've never really identified with 'the gay scene' (to me there are several different 'scenes' not just one). I have been involved with some gay social groups but I wouldn't call them 'scenes'.

    The way I came to think about this is that growing up in a heteronormative world injures those of us who do not 'fit in' to that 'norm'. The injuries are psychological and the wounding often shows up in dysfunctional behaviors. Anger is a common one. Self destructive tendencies is another. Fear of intimacy is another. There are many more and each of these can be acted out in various ways. The point, though, is that seeing this enables me to feel a bit of compassion for people I experience as acting out in unhealthy ways. It also enables me to understand some of my 'quirks' in this light too.

    So, I don't know. Isn't "fear" (phobia) the basis for all prejudice? If so, how do you deal with prejudice in general. You do realize, right, that you don't *have* to behave *like* other people, whether gay or not, that you don't respect, right?
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    Aug 03, 2014 2:44 PM GMT
    atlanticshore saidGays are dirty, end of discussion Dirty mind, hiv and all of that

    BLOCKED
  • customerservi...

    Posts: 188

    Aug 03, 2014 3:20 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    atlanticshore saidGays are dirty, end of discussion Dirty mind, hiv and all of that

    BLOCKED


    I deleted the post, and alerted the user that his account will be removed if he posts any similar messages.

    Jeff
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    Aug 03, 2014 4:41 PM GMT
    I'd concentrate not on undoing baggage but on repacking.

    For instance, if you lay your shirts flat instead of folding them you can fit more in your bag. Same with socks, never try to bunch them up. Just lay them gently flat in the bag or you can use them to fill underutilized spaces.

    Str8 or gay the scenery is pretty much the same wherever you go. Don't get off the train, just figure out how to travel better.
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    Aug 03, 2014 5:33 PM GMT
    I think a lot of my internalised homophobia is from the bullshit I was fed in church to be honest .

    I guess that just takes time to "repack" and toss out- as was very wisely pointed out.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Aug 03, 2014 6:19 PM GMT
    BlakeA saidI think a lot of my internalised homophobia is from the bullshit I was fed in church to be honest .

    I guess that just takes time to "repack" and toss out- as was very wisely pointed out.


    I'd second Art and Mike. There are nasty people to be found almost everywhere. I just ignore them and let them go on being the unhappy, bitchy people they are.

    I left the church I'd more-or-less grown up in. Now I'm at Trinity Episcopal,Seattle: some gay clergy, a congregation that marches in the Pride Parade, we do same-sex marriages... Find an Open and Affirming congregation and as theantijock says, re-pack. I was put on the search committee for our new priest because the vestry wanted to be sure we had a gay person on the committee. There's good, clean oxygen in the air outside the fundamentalist bubble.

    Good luck to you. When you've swallowed poison it takes some time to get washed out of the system. But you'll get there.



    PS - You might try some reading: Pastor I am Gay or What the Bible REally Says About Homosexuality. I'd be glad to send you a reading list, or some of our Matthew Shepard sermons, if you'd like to read some affirmative material.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2014 6:27 PM GMT
    something new something old:
    so you came out (new)

    you might try a gay affirming church in your area. They do exist. Interview a prospective congregation to see it its feels correct for you. (old).

    hope this helps
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    Aug 03, 2014 6:46 PM GMT
    BlakeA said

    I have friends who have been treated so badly by gay men and I in the past have as well. I still have a massive amount of internalised homophobia which I don't want to carry and I'm interested in how others on here have handled the anger towards the scene, how vitriolic some gay men can be and the way I see a lot of dysfunctional people in the gay world .



    Could it that you see Gay men as vitriolic, dysfunctional and are against "the scene" because you have self-internalized homophobia?

    Gays haven't cornered assholeism. It's everywhere. We've just branded Gays in a specific terminology. That in itself can be seen as internalized homophobia. Whenever I see a profile that says "I'm not into the Gay scene" I think, what? You don't like bowling? Going to church? Having a drink with your buddies? You only suck dick at midnight on Saturday, on the DL?
    The "Gay Scene" is so wide and encompassing it is impossible to generalize. By saying "I'm not into the Gay scene" it's a shorthand to me, that a person is socially inept with others they are amongst! Not everything and everybody, but there are certainly Gay people you have a commonality.
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    Aug 03, 2014 6:54 PM GMT
    90 degrees in garden shade with hardly a wind to sing the chimes. A cool air short break at the puter with a glass of iced cold water. ahhhhhhhh.

    BlakeA saidI think a lot of my internalised homophobia is from the bullshit I was fed in church to be honest .

    I guess that just takes time to "repack" and toss out- as was very wisely pointed out.


    No one in the world is unaffected by it and simply as a matter of the neurological properties of our brains, outside of a lobotomy, you can't really cut out, toss out, entirely dismiss, that which gets inside. You can repack, you can store in a locker temporarily and while you pay the locker rents, you can even find ways to cope such as denial or suppression or projection upon others or whatever neurosis you care to develop, but you can not ever toss out what has become you while remaining either authentic or intact.

    It would be like crying a tear into the sea and then trying to find that tear, extract it from all the earth's oceans and replace that tear back into your eye to cry it again. Even futility teaches.

    Learn ways to become comfortable with yourself like a ship rolling with the waves. Those on deck might experience a rough ride, but as long as you don't take on too much water, you'll ride out that storm.

    Like sailors say: If you feel your bilge getting wet, turn on a pump and piss it out.

    (I have no idea what that means.)

    I'm going back to my garden now.
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    Aug 03, 2014 7:04 PM GMT
    Very interesting stuff. I have been going through the same thing.
    I remember my parents dragging me to church every sunday & telling me about how to be a good christian so i could make it to heaven.
    Lets not talk about constant comments about gay people...
    Now, I feel a little broken & going to counseling to reclaim myself. Its a really tedious process undoind all these mental trauma. I sometimes feel like I am flawed.
    I have lost a lot of "friends" in the process...and the way i have seen gay men behave made it even worse for me...
    Try reading the Velvet Rage by Alan Downs, it helped me a lot.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 03, 2014 8:46 PM GMT
    It doesn't sound like internalized homophobia to me. It just sounds like you are not interested in and turned off by the gay scene with its emphasis on superficiality and substance abuse. I don't think you need to get over feeling as you do about the gay scene.
  • SuntoryTime

    Posts: 656

    Aug 03, 2014 9:47 PM GMT
    sf_swimmer saidIt doesn't sound like internalized homophobia to me. It just sounds like you are not interested in and turned off by the gay scene with its emphasis on superficiality and substance abuse. I don't think you need to get over feeling as you do about the gay scene.


    But what is the "gay scene?" There's the clubs but then there are volunteerism, sports and outdoor programs, networking, PFLAG, and (although I'm secular) inclusive churches.

    Nothing is stopping you from experiencing the rest of our community but yourself.
  • tazzari

    Posts: 2937

    Aug 03, 2014 11:55 PM GMT
    SuntoryTime said
    sf_swimmer saidIt doesn't sound like internalized homophobia to me. It just sounds like you are not interested in and turned off by the gay scene with its emphasis on superficiality and substance abuse. I don't think you need to get over feeling as you do about the gay scene.


    But what is the "gay scene?" There's the clubs but then there are volunteerism, sports and outdoor programs, networking, PFLAG, and (although I'm secular) inclusive churches.

    Nothing is stopping you from experiencing the rest of our community but yourself.


    Your "gay scene" is the place where you hang out with other gay guys. Like the nice dinner I had last night with three friends two of them partners, one a guy I used to coach - we hung out, chatted, drank a little to much beer... You make your scene; that's mine.
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    Aug 04, 2014 1:25 AM GMT
    customerservice_rj said
    Art_Deco said
    atlanticshore saidGays are dirty, end of discussion Dirty mind, hiv and all of that

    BLOCKED

    I deleted the post, and alerted the user that his account will be removed if he posts any similar messages.
    Jeff

    You should just delete him now. Read his other forum posts.
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    Aug 04, 2014 1:28 AM GMT
    BlakeA saidHi guys

    Many of you may know that I came out about four years ago and am now in a LTR and stuff. I had come from a Christian background which was pretty much a cultic environment - evangelical churches .

    So there's a lot of baggage I'm in therapy to undo.

    I have friends who have been treated so badly by gay men and I in the past have as well. I still have a massive amount of internalised homophobia which I don't want to carry and I'm interested in how others on here have handled the anger towards the scene, how vitriolic some gay men can be and the way I see a lot of dysfunctional people in the gay world .

    It's been the hardest thing in coming out and I'm STILL adjusting despite being in a LTR .

    I'm not sure I understand your post. By "internalised homophobia" are you actively berating other gays that perpetuate stereotypes? Can you elaborate?
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    Aug 04, 2014 1:36 AM GMT
    customerservice_rj said
    Art_Deco said
    atlanticshore saidGays are dirty, end of discussion Dirty mind, hiv and all of that

    BLOCKED

    I deleted the post, and alerted the user that his account will be removed if he posts any similar messages.

    Jeff

    Thank you for your prompt response. We have many cat fights among members here, some pretty nasty. But I agree, those extremely offensive anti-gay comments were over the line for this site.
  • MikeW

    Posts: 6061

    Aug 04, 2014 1:40 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    customerservice_rj said
    Art_Deco said
    atlanticshore saidGays are dirty, end of discussion Dirty mind, hiv and all of that

    BLOCKED

    I deleted the post, and alerted the user that his account will be removed if he posts any similar messages.

    Jeff

    Thank you for your prompt response. We have many cat fights among members here, some pretty nasty. But I agree, those extremely offensive anti-gay comments were over the line for this site.

    I assumed it was an Incendiary sock.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 04, 2014 1:42 AM GMT
    BlakeA saidI think a lot of my internalised homophobia is from the bullshit I was fed in church to be honest .

    I guess that just takes time to "repack" and toss out- as was very wisely pointed out.




    Hey I know how it feels

    GIVE YOUR SELF TIME!!!

    Enjoy the here and NOW!!!!

    Focus daily on the old baggage to the trash.....

    Love yourself and love your partner.

    Stroll on the beach and meditate all do wonders......

    icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 09, 2014 10:41 AM GMT
    [quote][cite]2bnaked said[/cite]
    BlakeA saidI think a lot of my internalised homophobia is from the bullshit I was fed in church to be honest .

    I guess that just takes time to "repack" and toss out- as was very wisely pointed out.


    Hey I know how it feels

    GIVE YOUR SELF TIME!!!

    Enjoy the here and NOW!!!!

    Focus daily on the old baggage to the trash.....

    Love yourself and love your partner.

    Stroll on the beach and meditate all do wonders......

    icon_smile.gif[/quote]



    The guy with the vitriolic BS aside (glad he is blocked), internalised Homophobia is self hatred but is not a dislike of the values and accepted practices as being expected of gay men no matter where there 'scene' is for the individual person.

    Too often Gay men who are 'out and proud' are sheep who go along with how the 'vocal minority' see things and apparently, being different means being ostracised, unless you relent and forget watching football and actually liking it and take up something you may not dislike but am not really interested in.

    It never cease to be amazed how a community who espouses diversity and tolerance are so quick to ostracise people who don't conform to their ideas. I empathise with the silent majority (made up of those who withdraw from the community and the ones who bite the bullet and conform long enough to meet a partner and maybe a few friends then drop out again).

    I bet there are many of you even on this site who are part of those silent minority and I hope this finally sinks into the vocal minority and start to see some real diversity of voices