Judging the Obese and other Unhealthyisms

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 28, 2007 4:59 AM GMT

    How do you deal with feeling judgmental towards people who are out of shape and don’t seem to care?

    I recently ran into an old friend of mine and then saw his picture on a “bear” website. Now I have no problem with “bear-type” guys, in fact some of them are damn sexy. But when I first met my friend and we went on a couple of dates, he was lean and in shape, he even worked out a bit.

    It’s clear that he has made a decision to go the way of the beer-belly. I noticed that he had gained some weight, and then in his photos online he is sporting and displaying his growing beer belly, almost like those of us on this site post new photos of muscle growth and loss of body fat. It’s like he’s proud of becoming out of shape.

    My initial thought was “how sad.” But then I thought… well, he’s clearly happy with what he’s doing, why should I judge him?

    When I was younger I used to be very judgmental about everything from religion to laundry. Over the years I’ve realized that I have so many faults/mistakes/idiosyncrasies, that for me to look at anyone else and say “you’re wrong” is hypocrisy and rude… I’m no better than anyone and although I may hold strong beliefs, everyone is entitled to their own.

    (Don't get me wrong... if I disagree with you, I'll argue my point - but I always try to stay focused on the argument and trying to understand someone else's point of view rather than convince someone they're wrong...)

    But I still run into problems when it comes to folks who are obviously obese, out-of-control unhealthy, and don’t care – especially when it’s someone I deeply care about, like a parent or sibling. AND… I have a TERRIBLE “poker face” so even if I don’t say anything, my face/body language usually gives me away.

    I guess it’s good that I recognize this, and the fact that I don’t want to judge someone is a good step… but I wish I could get better at it.


    So… how do you deal with those feelings?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 28, 2007 5:54 AM GMT
    I can't watch The Biggest Loser, it makes me feel ill.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 28, 2007 9:16 AM GMT
    I have some difficulty with this issue, also. And I have 'been-there-done-that', so I've been in the other guy's shoes. I think obesity has a lot to do with how you perceive yourself. 5-plus years ago, I weighed in at a hefty 250 lbs. with a 44-46 inch waist. I realized I was overweight, but put it off to getting older and having both hips replaced, greatly limiting my ability to be active. I just kept getting larger shirts to 'hide' my weight. True realization came when I saw a video in which I performed. The singing was great..the body had to change. And with portion control and exercise, I changed it.
    But until that video, I perceived myself as a little overweight, not obese. Sometimes, it takes just the right impetus to make changes in our lives..and that is not just diet, but lifestyle, as well.
    When I get with old friends, I see them putting on weight and find myself thinking, must be getting lazy. My one sister has a very bad weight problem, but she has no will-power. I am concerned that she will not live to see my niece and nephew grow up-that was another reason I lost weight; to be there for them.
    I realize that weight is sometimes past ones control. I know 2 people that have glandular problems and are morbidly obese. They both weigh over 450 lbs, easily. I cannot help but consider them with some amount of fascination, pity, and I must admit, disgust, even though I know it is past their control...
    I find myself looking at those that are overweight and thinking they must have low self-esteem and no will power. If it's physically beyond their control due to health conditions, I feel some pity, but otherwise, I think...why be fat and unhealthy? I know emotional and physical issues often come into play with the overweight, but you can overcome those things that lead you to gaining weight in the first place. I know it can be done. I did it....85 lbs ago....
  • Laurence

    Posts: 942

    Mar 28, 2007 9:34 AM GMT
    I think it's best not to judge people generally. Who knows what they have been through?

    I think it's great if you can be happy in your body shape, whether it be thin, heavy, muscular etc. A lot of society's problems are caused by people being told they are the wrong shape and then being unhappy about it.

    My main concern is people who don't seem to own their contribution to their shape. If you are overweight and unhappy, do something about it is what I think. I also have issues with people who eat themselves into illness and then expect the medical profession to help them out.

    Ultimately it is hard not to judge people. If they are not harming you, then let them get on with it. We can't all be the same.

    Loz
  • dfrourke

    Posts: 1062

    Mar 28, 2007 3:50 PM GMT
    ...what a let down...I thought this topic was going to be about some new American Idol show...

    ...I have met enough people and know myself well enough that we all have some things that could be up for judgement by others...

    ...I think when you start pointing out other people's flaws you are really unhappy with something a bit closer to home...like yourself...and it becomes easy to deflect those feelings on to others...I know when I have felt insecure at times, I find myself being more critical of others...

    although I believe we need to watch out for our community members, advice and criticism usually are best received when they are asked for...otherwise, let it go and let others live their lives...how 'really' does it affect you?...

    - David
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 28, 2007 4:09 PM GMT
    I have plenty of good friends and relatives who are overweight or downright obese. While I worry about their health, I (usually) don't feel any need to lecture them about it. They are perfectly capable of deciding how they want to spend their lives. Maybe sometimes I'm a little too pointed about bringing vegetables to dinner or promoting activity instead of TV.

    On the other hand, I'm having a little trouble believing how many times I've been branded as a "self-hater" in the last few months. Usually it's a generic statement, but it even happens here. Let's see, so far we've heard that everyone who lifts weights is a self-hater, everyone who grooms their body hair, everyone who eats vegetables, everyone who has sex with men, everyone who has sex for fun... I'm beginning to wonder who is doing all of this hating and where it is really directed.
  • OptimusMatt

    Posts: 1124

    Mar 28, 2007 4:51 PM GMT
    While I do my best to not judge people...well, it just comes so easily, lol.
    I keep myself reserved though, because I think of my grandmother (and to a lesser extent my bf's grandmother).
    Both are, well...fat. Both are on disability because they can rheumatoid arthritis and Fibromyalgia. Both have had open-heart sugary, and both can barely walk. My grandmother quit smoking when she had to start taking like, 20 pills a day, but my bf's grandmother has yet to. I think her mindset is once absolutely EVERYTHING goes wrong...what's one more thing? My grandmother's toes cross over each other, so she can't even really find shoes that fit other than crocs, and even so she can't walk for more than 10 minutes.
    I am judgmental, yes - like I said, it's very easy to be, especially as a gay man - we're all very good at finding faults...hell, we've been finding them in ourselves for years, lol.
    But when I think of my grandmother, and I think about how she CAN'T HELP IT...it snaps me back to reality and helps me get over the initial judgment. Because anything I pass on someone will almost always 'apply' to her.
    That's probably not too clear but it's how I feel.
    I'm not perfect, lol, I still make cracks with my friends just for humor sake - but it's really as far as I go.


    Though, on a side-note - these people are the ones that will be sucking up my health-care dollars 10 years from now and bitching about how shitty the system has become and how we need more money...sigh. Vicious cycle. See, right there, I started.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 28, 2007 6:45 PM GMT
    This is a complicated question.

    I set high standards, professionally, and personally, for those I allow around me and whom I choose to call my friends. That being said, I don't have fat people, dope smokers, people who aren't out, or tobacco users in the personal side of my life. You may not like this, but, I'm of the view that it takes months, and years, to look like crap, and I have no use with dishonest / low esteem folks in my life. It may seem cold, but, I don't need the extra baggage.

    On one hand fat folks have a certain right to live their lives and be left alone. I feel that way about my own life. I'm in a minority, sub-culture, etc., and I'm singled out...E.g. if I take my shirt off I'm "show boating"; if a fat person takes their shirt off, they're just being comfy.

    Now, here's where the question gets tricky: fat people, tobacco users, heavy drug users, have the catastrophic diseases that cost boatloads of money, are long, and expensive to treat. We don't see muscle heads dropping over dead from those expensive illnesses. At what point do we say to the fat person "control your pudgey little fingies...your costing us all millions?" It gets even hairier...what about the 8 year that was on CNN this week. 7 years old and 254 pounds! At what point should the public intervene?

    I don't know the answer. I do know that just because 65% of the people are fat and lazy that I hold myself, and those I chose to associate with, to a much higher standard. My friends are driven to excel in every facet of their lives, typically. They have the same (I have) 24 hours in the day as the fat, lazy, ugly folks; we just spend that time differently. I want to be around folks with set goals, and not excuses. That's why if someone is "discreet", married, not out, or any of that other baggage (pictureless / low esteem / lazy / ignorant) that I don't want to sign up for all their baggage. Being all accepting lowers the standards for civilization as a whole, and I believe it's wrong. Many young people today are condemned to an unhealthy adult life because we accepted them as fat kids. I have a strong belief that should change.

    Being fat, getting a std, etc...are all things that are generally preventable and only occur through selfish, reckless, careless, behavior. I think people can be so much more.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 29, 2007 2:41 AM GMT
    You guys make some good and interesting points.

    Fitnhot - congrats on making a decision to change and sticking to it.

    Biomatty - thanks for the thought about your bf's grandmother. Remembering those we love who struggle with something is a good way to "snap back" to considering what someone's going through before passing judgement.

    Chuckystud - wow, you threw a lot out there. Interesting perspective. I agree that we have to set examples, but I think the best way to do that, in the case of kids, is educating them on the dangers of drug abuse, food abuse, proper nutrition etc... but then again... I look at my generation who had so much anti-smoking information drilled into us in elementary and high school and I'm amazed at how many people my age and younger smoke. That photo of the nasty black lungs (and my parents hacking every morning) made me so afraid of smoking I've never even tried it.

    I too am most bothered by those who are overweight and out of shape and complain about it. I recently overheard an out of shape guy at a bar complaining about how the in-shape guys aren't interested in someone his size... and I thought to myself... you CAN do something about that, you are not sentenced to an out-of-shape body. I know for me, it's a daily decision to stay in shape. If I don't hit the gym regularly, I feel it quickly.

    On the other hand... I, for one, have felt the sting of being rejected for something I have no control over... height. At 5'3 I've often felt literally overlooked. Sigh, but I press on, I know there are cute muscle guys who like little guys out there...

    Interesting perspectives guys, I appreciate the feedback. ;-)

  • atxclimber

    Posts: 480

    Mar 29, 2007 5:30 AM GMT
    I do this plenty, looking at people who are out of shape and noticing a highly critical voice in my head. Usually when it happens I can just kind of let it be, realize that I don't need to identify with that critical voice, but also know that it's there. Don't repress it, but don't indulge it, just let it be.

    The one time I really struggle with it is in a situation, kind of like the ones Chuck brings up, where it actually impacts others.

    My #1 situation for this is air travel. I have occasionally gotten stuck in seats, when I've flown, next to extremely obese people. I'm tall at 6'4", so I'm generally uncomfortable in planes to begin with, but I still try to be conscious of my neighbors, don't swing my legs into their areas, etc.

    When I get stuck next to someone who's just huge, overflowing their seat, monopolizing the armrest and a good portion of my own seat, I feel this total indignant, righteous anger. Unless this person has some serious gland problem, I think to myself, he or she has basically made a decision -- and then acted on the decision, over and over, for many many years -- to gain all this weight, and now it's causing me serious discomfort. From that perspective, isn't it just plain *rude* being that fat?

    A friend flew recently and was stuck next to a guy so obese that he sheepishly asked to use my friend's tray to eat off of, because his wouldn't open. My friend said he spent the flight mostly cowering away from this guy who was just taking over most of the seat.

    That's harder for me to ignore.

    The one technique I've found that can help me empathize in situations like that is to try to think of something I am negligent about in my own life, and remind myself that overcoming big obstacles is itself a huge, difficult choice with a huge, difficult follow-through, and just because I happen to have made that choice when it comes to physical health doesn't mean I've made it in all cases. I'm sometimes sloppy about my finances, and know I should be better about them. I let my lawn grow until it looks like a jungle, which probably drives my neighbors nuts. Maybe those aren't "as bad", in some sense, as being 200lbs overweight, but nonetheless, those are my difficulties, and that person has their difficulties, and frankly, I'd rather be inconvenienced by a morbidly obese person than *be* the morbidly obese person.

    Chances are, I figure, that person isn't happy being that large, and wishes he or she had the willingness and diligence to shed the weight.

    Uh, okay, so having said that, another situation that's pretty challenging is being at a restaurant and seeing a morbidly obese person eagerly eating an enormous, super-unhealthy meal. At that point I think back to the fat people next to me in airplane seats and start to get angry again, since my empathy requires, to some extent, that I believe the person is unhappy with all that weight. If I were sitting in an airplane seat next to a giant person who confided that he loved being enormous, I would have a tough time not telling him flat-out that I thought he was being rude and inconsiderate to others in doing so.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 29, 2007 10:51 AM GMT
    I have a much easier cure for managing the anger the overweight provoke:

    Put on an extra 10 or 15 lbs yourself for a year.

    That was my case at the time I was finishing a master's degree. I certainly wasn't obese, but the difference in the way I was treated by other gay men was astounding. It left me with an unforgettable sense of the prejudice people can experience because of their shape.

    I don't mean that the anger doesn't come up for me, too, but it pretty quickly evaporates when I recall my own experience. I'm also aware that the anger has the quality of resentment. Because one of my gigs is restaurant reviewing, I could easily pork way up were I not in the gym regularly--something I'd rather not be spending my time doing many days. Even with the gym, the super-lean body of many guys on this site is outside my capacity unless I quit my gig and reverse aging.

    I'm sure y'all know that the majority of Americans are overweight now. It's so much the case that we are even identified on that basis. A few years ago, I was at a coffee shop next to a school in Madrid. A bus drove up full of American teenagers. As they got off the bus, the Madrid kids leaned out the windows laughing at the fat Americans. It was pretty shocking how fat they looked in that environment.

    You see something of that on a lot of cruising websites too. People claiming an "average body" are often significantly overweight.

    I've been active in the eating disorders network here for years, giving an annual public talk on the "gay body." I long ago noticed how much gay men dislike talking about their bodies. Although my talk is always well attended, questions at the end are rare.

  • getripped

    Posts: 8

    Mar 29, 2007 5:40 PM GMT
    i'm with rourke on this one, but what really grinds my gears is when i see a kid who is obviously overweight and is still eating whatever they want.

    if an adult makes unhealthy choices, that's fine. but when they pass those on to their kids, who have less control, and less knowledge about how to be healthy, they are setting them up for a lot of unhappiness.

    i know from experience...
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 29, 2007 7:55 PM GMT
    Gee...being a muscle head 30 years ago....being short...gosh...I guess I've been rejected a couple of times. Being a fag / bi / queer. I can handle that.

    I, at least weekly, get hate e-mail from some twink lashing out about my appearance. I shit you not.

    Obscene makes some great points.

    The fat are getting fatter.
    The anorexic are getting more anorexic.

    120 at 5'10" ain't healthy, either, but, likely won't cause catastrophic disease.

    I think there's a sensible middle ground.

    I think we should have standards. All these fat young kids are destined for a life of health problems.
  • trainerbry

    Posts: 4

    Mar 29, 2007 9:18 PM GMT
    I definitely can sympathize with obese people, since I used to weigh 310 pounds a few years ago.

    Once my 8 year relationship ended, I realized that the gay community was very judgemental, and if I was ever going to date again, I better lose some weight... because there is nothing worse than being gay, single, AND FAT!!

    So I am now down to 217, which is still not my ideal weight...but getting closer to the goal all the time. Now I am just struggling to try and find a good blend of losing weight, and buffing up...kind of a vicious cycle.

    I do not judge others, because I know where some of them have come from, and I know how the world treats them. I don't want others judging me..therefore, it is not my place to judge others...

    Just my 2 cents...
    Bry
  • PatchRock

    Posts: 2

    Mar 29, 2007 9:42 PM GMT
    I was recently on Maui. It was so strange seeing the juxtaposition of (most) locals with (most) tourists. The locals were tan and lean from spending so much time at the beach and in the water. The tourists (some of my family included) were horridly fat and pale.
    I tried not to get all disgusted with "the typical fat American" especially while going to fricking COSTCO the first afternoon we were there.

    I guess the thing I tried to take out of it all is how your lifestyle is so connected to your fitness and thus perhaps also your happiness. What is the typical fat American to do when he/she drives an hour to work and then sits at a desk all day? I can feel my ass flattening right now...
  • MSUBioNerd

    Posts: 1813

    Mar 29, 2007 10:15 PM GMT
    It's certainly true that a large number of people who are out of shape are that way because they eat too much of the wrong things and don't exercise enough. But there are other reasons as well, so I do my best to not be too judgmental about it. Some metabolisms are inherently different than others. I spent the majority of my life at the other end of the spectrum, with people assuming I was anorexic because I was so thin, which has almost certainly influenced my perspective on this.

    One issue I think most don't appreciate, though, is the link between our country's weight and our mental health. It's not just that being overweight can cause people to overeat as a form of seeking comfort, but there is the fact that a large number of mood altering medications, including a lot of anxiety medications and mood stabilizers have weight gain listed as one of their first side effects. I watched people I knew in college control their diets carefully, exercise regularly, and still put on weight due to these pills. None of them became morbidly obese (at which point glandular problems start seeming more plausible if you don't see the person gorging at meals), but a few definitely went past the point of what most of us would consider healthy. Yet it wasn't due to a failure of willpower or laziness; if anything, they were far more conscious about the health of their diets than I was of mine.

    For those reasons, I try to make it a point to not assume laziness or lack of will on the part of overweight people I don't actually know, and reserve the judgment that people are lazy or lack discipline for those cases where I actually know that they are/do. But, like a few people have mentioned, all bets are off on airplanes. At that point, I don't care *why* the person next to me is spilling over into my seat, I just want my own space.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 29, 2007 11:29 PM GMT
    Well, the question "...How do you deal with feeling judgmental towards people who are out of shape and don’t seem to care?..."

    assumes that I feel judgmental, or that the general assumption is that everyone should feel judgmental. I don't, and I don't think anyone should, for many of the very excellent reasons listed above. Of course, not being judgmental doesn't mean that you have to find that sexually attractive...but that's a different question for a differnt forum post.

    Let's just worry about ourselves, and remember, just as "obscenewish" listed above, it could happen to you.

    Just a a couple of hundred extra calories per day relative to your output (say, you get injured and can't workout), will make you overweight in a year (about a 36 pound weight gain from fat).

    It doesn't make you evil, or lazy. It just means you (or anyone)lost track of the simple equation, calories in-calories out=weight gain. (Note: that's independent of weight gain due to water retention etc.)

    John
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 29, 2007 11:55 PM GMT
    MSU: That is very true. Paxil, for example, is notorious for causing significant weight gain (along with other horrible side effects). I will not let the psychiatrist who supervises my clients' meds prescribe it except as a last resort. Who wants an antidepressant that makes you fat, causes your dick to go limp and makes you feel like there's an electrical storm in your head when you try to stop taking it?

    It is a constantly cited irony in literature about eating disorders that Americans are by far the most overweight people on the planet but also the most obsessed with being thin. Anyone have an idea why?

    It's also true that the great majority of men who suffer anorexia are gay. And I've yet to work with a gay male as a client who didn't seem to have some degree of so-called body dysmorphic disorder. My theory about that is that gay men are brought up to repress their bodily/sexual reality and then lose the capacity to image themselves. Thus you see Greek gods who feel like trolls and trolls who parade around bars shirtless like they are Greek gods.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 30, 2007 12:12 AM GMT
    I know this may sound snarky, but let me ask everyone this: why is this even a PROBLEM for you in the first place? I mean, really! "Whoa is me...you're just so unlike me it pains me that you exist in my presence?" Wow. Have we really gotten this bad? I think it's time for a reality check.

    I come from a family who very much taught me that, in some ways, I am not any "better" than anyone else in this world. It also means that no one else in this world is "better" than me either. We all come into the world the same way: naked, innocent, and ready to learn.

    Now, some of you are going to look at me and say "well, of course he'd feel that way...look at him...he's not tan, buff, or model-like." But don't judge my credibility on this subject by your eyes, but by what I'm about to write.

    I've been super thin, I've been heavy, I've been super tan, I've been pale. I've looked the gay male stereotype, I've looked the average American male stereotype. I've really hit all the possibilities, with the exception of being muscular. I have been very fit in the past though and would consider myself average right now with room for improvement. Finally, I've worked in an industry very much in the public eye and with an emphasis on looks.

    The point is this: at my most fit and "gay perfect", I never felt "anger" or "pity" for someone who didn't look like me. I was damn proud of that. I accepted and continue to accept people as they are. If I didn't want to date someone because they weren't my type, that was fine in my book. Other types of relationships? I never based them on looks. And I certainly never was so vulnerable or insecure that I felt having different types of people around me might change me in ways I didn't want.

    While I was very vain about my own appearance in some ways, I never applied my own vanity to other people. For one thing, I am not and never was perfect. I think to start casting judgements upon others (even in your own mind) means probably hold yourself in an unrealistically high regard. And that's just incredibly narcissistic and delusional!

    Listening to some of the statements here, I can almost hear my grandmother or mother saying "who the heck do you think you are? Your sh*t stinks like the rest of ours! You are NOT God's gift!" I wonder where and who your mothers or grandmothers are? Would they tell you to cool it? Or would they encourage it? Many of you will say "well, I'd rather have my mother teach me to be perfect and beautiful than fat and ugly."

    Really?

    I'll get flamed for saying this, but let's flip the mirror around and take a look at some of you. If judging other people for not living up to your standards is an issue, I invite you to see a psychotherapist and have an analysis done. Get their impression of your predicament. Ask for their honest opinion.

    The reason: there is a disorder out there called Narcissistic Personality Disorder. It manifests itself in that many people, but these are some of the main symptoms:

    - Exaggerates own importance
    - Entertains unrealistic fantasies about achievements, power, beauty, intelligence or romance
    - Has unreasonable expectations of favorable treatment
    - Is easily jealous
    - Has a sense of entitlement
    - Lacks empathy
    - Displays arrogant behavior
    - Displays haughty behavior

    Sound familiar? Sound like some of you on this thread? How about some of you out and about in the clubs? Or just in your everyday interactions?

    Further, there is phenomena in gay male culture out there called "The Adonis Complex". This is a related disorder focusing on body image. There may be a link between these two mental conditions.

    Like a drug user denying that he has an addiction problem, some of you may be criticizing, discriminating or avoiding "imperfect" people to deny you have a problem. And instead of identifying your pursuit of "perfection" as a serious problem, you may be trying to seek out others who feel as you do to create an environment where your condition is accepted. Like a drug user may go to a crackhouse or seek and hang out with other users.

    A lot of websites are probably tacitly helping a lot of gay men dealing with this condition. D-list, Manhunt, even Realjock (although the pursuit of a physically beautiful and healthy body and image should really be expected here). It's here that many gay men with these unhealthy mental conditions get reinforcement that their unrealistic standards and view towards others is acceptable.

    From there, it manifests itself in other forms. Only surrounding yourself with people who fit your definition of perfection in public. Allowing yourself to develop impressions and stereotypes about people who aren't like you, even though you have no experience as to what its like to be them. Finally, actively discriminating, avoiding, and even taunting or publicly going after those who are different. That's happening more and more these days.

    So, good for all of us. We're watching what we eat
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 30, 2007 12:20 AM GMT
    Got cut off - sorry hahah...here's the big finish ---

    So, good for all of us. We're watching what we eat. We're exercising. But maybe it's time for some of us to break our diets just this once. For those who think it's so hard for you to look at those poor, fat people and you'd rather they just be like you or go away...

    as my Grandmother would say "sweetie, have a piece of humble pie."

    P.S. Isn't it interesting that recent studies show that the latest generation of young people are more narcissistic and self-centered than ever before? Is this a trend? As ever before, are gay men leading the way?
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 30, 2007 12:33 AM GMT
    I don't judge. Sometimes they can't control it naturally. I help if they ask. But some of my closest friends are over weight or disabled.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 30, 2007 12:43 AM GMT
    Its easy to judge, even if you don't have the direct Intention to. We see someone and say, " My God, I don't see how anyone can let themselves go that far." But, it is much more compiclated than that. In part, it has been done to us. Yes, I know you don't want to believe it. But the day is fast approaching when we will have about 2 weeks of full disclosure about many things we've been misled about and then people will find out the truth of what all has been done to us. Just like HIV. The info is out there, and its very clear. But very positive changes are coming soon.
    I'm in a transition stage right now. I can Both, put on FAT easily and throw it off easily. This year during the winter I really just let myself go and got into a groove of eating a Chicken Combo with Curly Fries and a Dr. Pepper at Hardees a couple times a week 2-3 max, and not every week. It was more of a comfort routine of a place to go and get out of the house.
    I'm presently taking care of my mother and that's why I'm here, otherwise I'd been in a positive gay-friendly city like Atlanta or Phoenix - kind of have the urge to get back out west. This is a very rural town. Not much to do here and I only know one other gay person in this town.
    Yoga is a great way to really burn off fat. If you live in a city and can get into a Bikram Yoga class, you can trim down relatively quickly and tone as well as develop great flexibility to boot.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 30, 2007 12:45 AM GMT
    Its easy to judge, even if you don't have the direct Intention to. We see someone and say, " My God, I don't see how anyone can let themselves go that far." But, it is much more complicated than that. In part, it has been done to us. Yes, I know you don't want to believe it. But the day is fast approaching when we will have about 2 weeks of full disclosure about many things we've been misled about and then people will find out the truth of what all has been done to us. Just like HIV. The info is out there, and its very clear. But very positive changes are coming soon.
    I'm in a transition stage right now. I can Both, put on FAT easily and throw it off easily. This year during the winter I really just let myself go and got into a groove of eating a Chicken Combo with Curly Fries and a Dr. Pepper at Hardees a couple times a week 2-3 max, and not every week. It was more of a comfort routine of a place to go and get out of the house.
    I'm presently taking care of my mother and that's why I'm here, otherwise I'd be in a positive gay-friendly city like Atlanta or Phoenix - kind of have the urge to get back out west. This is a very rural town. Not much to do here and I only know one other gay person in this town.
    Yoga is a great way to really burn off fat. If you live in a city and can get into a Bikram Yoga class, you can trim down relatively quickly and tone as well as develop great flexibility to boot.
  • atxclimber

    Posts: 480

    Mar 30, 2007 1:02 AM GMT
    menu2: Dude, for a post about not judging, that struck me as pretty judgmental. It felt to me like you were saying, "I don't judge because it's wrong to judge so I'm better than you people. Here, have a slice of humble pie."

    As StuMan points out, judgment is not always voluntary and conscious -- the mind does it because it's habit. Yes, it's habit we can break if we work really diligently. But comments like these:

    "For those who think it's so hard for you to look at those poor, fat people and you'd rather they just be like you or go away...

    as my Grandmother would say "sweetie, have a piece of humble pie.""

    ... strike me as really snarky. I didn't say I really hate fat people, but I did say that I often catch myself judging them, feeling condescending, and while I wish I would not, hey, that's how it is. I can work with that and maybe it will diminish over time. Maybe that little condescending voice in my head will be there for the rest of my life. I don't have to act out on what it says, but I also can't just get rid of it by repressing it.

    As practice goes, "Sweetie, have a piece of humble pie" is not actually terribly helpful instruction. So when I do catch myself judging, I should chastise myself, feel bad about it, tell myself what a bad person I am, or just go re-read your post to see what someone better than me would do? Come on, man.

    That said, one very positive takeaway from your post and Stu's followup, and an actual valuable practice, is just the observation that just as overweight people might have trouble controlling their eating habits, or exercising more, even if they really want to, I am just like them exactly because of my judgment -- I wish I could judge less, but it is hard for me to voluntarily control.

    I'll start bringing that to mind any time I judge anyone. That seems pretty useful.

    Thanks!
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Mar 30, 2007 1:32 AM GMT
    Not that it matters, but none of that was actually directed at you personally, bro. I never even brought you up. What I wrote was not even with your comments in mind.

    Do I sit in judgement of those who might cast a negative eye on people because they don't measure up to their standards? No. I personally don't care how you live your life and if you feel pity for someone or not. But I did want to make it clear that no one in this world is perfect, and that if you really feel like this, you might want to seriouly re-evaluate. And then I gave some standards for evaluation in regards to the Adonis Complex and Narcissistic Personality Disorder.

    As for my grandmother, I apologize, but she wouldn't call it evaluation. She'd say you just need to get your butt whupped by someone bigger, badder, and better looking than you and "eat some humble pie." Just was a smart woman, but back in her day, a butt whooping and humble pie was called evaluation. ;) I think her wisdom still applies today, which I included it, but it just is different.