Fuck poz guys!

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    Aug 08, 2014 6:02 PM GMT

    Marc-André LeBlanc (who is NEGATIVE BTW) asks if you’re a neg guy is it safer to have sex with poz guys or neg guys? Limit your condomless sex to poz guys with undetectable viral loads and avoid condomless sex with casual negative partners he suggests.



    http://www.positivelite.com/component/zoo/item/fuck-poz-guys
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    Aug 10, 2014 6:52 AM GMT
    Dude, HIV infections keep increasing and you keep trying to convince others to fuck POZ guys with no condom. What the hell is wrong with you?

    Even with an undetectable viral load the virus is STILL present in semen so the risk of HIV infection is still there.

    Believing some poz guy saying "Im undetectable" is just the same as believing some guy saying "Im neg". How do you know he's not lying? How do you know his stats didn't change?

    People: ALWAYS use condoms . Don't believe guys saying "Im neg" or "Im poz but undetectable" as if it was an assurance of anything. And if you have a partner and you're monogamous, get tested and wait 6 months to get tested AGAIN before barebacking, to make sure you're both neg.

    Keep it safe or be another increasing number in the HIV gay world.
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    Aug 10, 2014 7:33 PM GMT
    David3K saidDude, HIV infections keep increasing and you keep trying to convince others to fuck POZ guys with no condom. What the hell is wrong with you?

    Even with an undetectable viral load the virus is STILL present in semen so the risk of HIV infection is still there.

    Believing some poz guy saying "Im undetectable" is just the same as believing some guy saying "Im neg". How do you know he's not lying? How do you know his stats didn't change?

    People: ALWAYS use condoms . Don't believe guys saying "Im neg" or "Im poz but undetectable" as if it was an assurance of anything. And if you have a partner and you're monogamous, get tested and wait 6 months to get tested AGAIN before barebacking, to make sure you're both neg.

    Keep it safe or be another increasing number in the HIV gay world.


    I guess you missed this part:

    I know. STIs.

    I know. Blips in viral load.

    I know. Undetectable in blood does not always mean undetectable in semen or rectal or vaginal secretions.

    I know. You know some negative guys that you trust are truly negative.

    I’m not urging anyone to have condomless sex who doesn’t already.

    I’m not recommending an increase in condomless sex among those who already do it.


    I’m not encouraging anyone to ignore STI risks.

    I’m not suggesting you should assume that all men are liars.
    _______________________________________--

    Here are some facts

    FACT
    7000 new HIV transmissions in the 13-24 group. Overall transmission rates are flat amongst the Gay population. Down 30% overall.

    FACT
    250,000 people are on ART Therapy (HIV UNDETECTABLE)

    FACT
    Not ONE case of HIV transmission has been proven from an undetectable person.
    FACT A majority of 53% of Gays do NOT use condoms.


    Here is what is wrong with your plan: IT DOESN'T WORK. It ignores the majority. And after 30 years that hasn't changed. The ONLY thing that has changed is PrEP and ART Therapy....with condom use down, there should be an increase across the board. There isn't it's down 30%.

    "A draft report for the UN's AIDS agency has found that even when people use condoms consistently, the failure rate for protection against HIV is an estimated 10 percent, making them a larger risk than portrayed by many advocate groups."
    http://www.thebodypro.com/content/art28493.html

    I think there is a corollary to the 25% on ART Therapy and the DROP in new HIV cases of 30%.
    "Based on real-world data,
    researchers at the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention found that implementing
    accelerated treatment
    could reduce new HIV infections by 31% within five years,"
    http://www.msfaccess.org/sites/default/files/MSF_assets/HIV_AIDS/Docs/AIDS_Briefing_ReversingAIDS_ENG_Feb2012Update.pdf


    "Medical advances and programs aimed at prevention and care have reached many people with or at risk for HIV, but looking across the spectrum from HIV diagnosis to viral suppression reveals missed opportunities for addressing the epidemic. While many people with HIV are diagnosed (82%) and linked to care (66%), far fewer remain in regular care (37%) and are prescribed ART (33%) Only one quarter (25%) are virally suppressed – a share that is even lower among Blacks (21%) and young people ages 25-34 (15%).9"
    http://kff.org/hivaids/fact-sheet/the-hivaids-epidemic-in-the-united-states/

    I wouldn't doubt the 13-24 year old group is less than 15%, the group hardest hit with a 132% increase.....are the least likely to be on ART Therapy. And therefore less likely to benefit from the preventative aspects of ART.

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    Aug 10, 2014 8:31 PM GMT
    HIV Prevention


    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/prevention.html

    How can I prevent getting HIV from anal or vaginal sex?

    Specifically, you can:

    Choose less risky sexual behaviors.

    Use condoms consistently and correctly.

    Reduce the number of people you have sex with.

    Talk to your doctor about pre-exposure prophylaxis (PrEP), taking HIV medicine daily to prevent HIV infection.

    Talk to your doctor right away (within 3 days) about post-exposure prophylaxis (PEP) if you have a possible exposure to HIV.

    Get tested and treated for other STDs.

    ART can keep people with HIV healthy for many years, and greatly reduce the chance of transmitting HIV to sex partners if taken consistently and correctly.



    (Note that this is from the CDC and both condoms and ART are listed as "PREVENTION")

    Since david3k insists: "Dude,... you keep trying to convince others to fuck POZ guys with no condom..." I can only assume HE can not differentiate between POZ and POZ/UNDETECTABLE. If that is true he has just increased his odds of getting HIV by 25%. (By reducing the pool from people who can't give you HIV, to only people who can)....well that sounds contrary, no?
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    Aug 10, 2014 8:42 PM GMT
    David3K said
    Keep it safe or be another increasing number in the HIV gay world.

    My late Mother had a simple explanation for timmm55: "Misery loves company"
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    Aug 10, 2014 8:46 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    David3K said
    Keep it safe or be another increasing number in the HIV gay world.

    My late Mother had a simple explanation for timmm55: "Misery loves company"


    LOL as long as it isn't your company!
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    Aug 10, 2014 8:53 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    David3K said
    Keep it safe or be another increasing number in the HIV gay world.

    My late Mother had a simple explanation for timmm55: "Misery loves company"


    You were the miserable F%%^K who wanted me banned for "bad medicine" and castigated me and Dr. Fauci's opinions. Which is now WHO and CDC protocol TREATMENT AS PREVENTION"

    "ART can keep people with HIV healthy for many years, and greatly reduce the chance of transmitting HIV to sex partners if taken consistently and correctly."
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:04 PM GMT
    Until there are proven vaccines and cures...



    ...just use a condom.
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:14 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Art_Deco said
    David3K said
    Keep it safe or be another increasing number in the HIV gay world.

    My late Mother had a simple explanation for timmm55: "Misery loves company"


    You were the miserable F%%^K who wanted me banned for "bad medicine" and castigated me and Dr. Fauci's opinions. Which is now WHO and CDC protocol TREATMENT AS PREVENTION"

    "ART can keep people with HIV healthy for many years, and greatly reduce the chance of transmitting HIV to sex partners if taken consistently and correctly."

    If the CDC are clearly saying that HIV negative men can have unprotected sex with positive men I would like the exact quote. And not some gobbledygook interpretation of yours, a paragraph full of semantic twists & turns.

    Are you claiming the CDC are saying that unprotected sex with a poz man is OK? Versus using a condom? In those exact words? Not YOUR interpretation, but THEIR official words & guidance. Please provide the link to that statement.
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:29 PM GMT
    It's right above your first post.


    "Use condoms consistently and correctly."

    "If your partner is HIV-positive, encourage your partner to get and stay on treatment. ART reduces the amount of HIV virus (viral load) in blood and body fluids. ART can keep people with HIV healthy for many years, and greatly reduce the chance of transmitting HIV to sex partners if taken consistently and correctly."
    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/prevention.html


    "When you follow couples—one who's infected, the other who's not—the probability of infection diminishes when the viral load is very low," as when drugs have been administered. So, the study intends to get infected individuals' viral loads down to levels where they cannot infect their sexual partners#8212;even in the absence of a condom. "The philosophy," Fauci says, "is if you test everybody, and treat everybody who has HIV, you could use treatment as prevention."

    http://www.realjock.com/article/1546/
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:32 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said

    Are you claiming the CDC are saying that unprotected sex with a poz man is OK? Versus using a condom? In those exact words? Not YOUR interpretation, but THEIR official words & guidance. Please provide the link to that statement.


    The problem you and David have is you can't separate POZ from POZ/Undetectable.
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:44 PM GMT
    timmm55 said
    Art_Deco said
    Are you claiming the CDC are saying that unprotected sex with a poz man is OK? Versus using a condom? In those exact words? Not YOUR interpretation, but THEIR official words & guidance. Please provide the link to that statement.

    The problem you and David have is you can't separate POZ from POZ/Undetectable.

    OK, fine, play your semantic game. Now please quote and link where the CDC say sex between a negative man and a poz/undetectable man should not occur with a condom. Please tell us when sex between them using a condom is ever not recommended.

    Key word: recommended. Not lesser risk, not lower risk, not minimal risk, but NOT RECOMMENDED. Or is a condom for anal sex between a neg and poz guy ALWAYS recommended by the CDC?
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:47 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    timmm55 said
    Art_Deco said
    Are you claiming the CDC are saying that unprotected sex with a poz man is OK? Versus using a condom? In those exact words? Not YOUR interpretation, but THEIR official words & guidance. Please provide the link to that statement.

    The problem you and David have is you can't separate POZ from POZ/Undetectable.

    OK, fine, play your semantic game. Now please quote and link where the CDC say sex between a negative man and a poz/undetectable man should not occur with a condom. Please tell us when sex between them using a condom is ever not recommended.


    Now you want me to say something I've never said! You really are a piece of work!
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:54 PM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    timmm55 said
    Art_Deco said
    Are you claiming the CDC are saying that unprotected sex with a poz man is OK? Versus using a condom? In those exact words? Not YOUR interpretation, but THEIR official words & guidance. Please provide the link to that statement.

    The problem you and David have is you can't separate POZ from POZ/Undetectable.

    OK, fine, play your semantic game. Now please quote and link where the CDC say sex between a negative man and a poz/undetectable man should not occur with a condom. Please tell us when sex between them using a condom is ever not recommended.

    Key word: recommended. Not lesser risk, not lower risk, not minimal risk, but NOT RECOMMENDED. Or is a condom for anal sex between a neg and poz guy ALWAYS recommended by the CDC?


    You are the one playing! Semantics my ass.......mine are direct quotes. Now you make up BS about "recommended" which isn't even mentioned on the page I linked.

    The CDC lists 7 "THINGS YOU CAN DO" to limit your risks. I provided the link.....now what's your problem?
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    Aug 10, 2014 9:56 PM GMT
    ME: The problem you and David have is you can't separate POZ from POZ/Undetectable.


    You: OK, fine, play your semantic game...

    If you think the difference between POZ and POZ/undetectable is semantics you are a bigger fool than I thought.
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    Aug 10, 2014 10:14 PM GMT
    "It doesn't encourage risky behavior. And besides, it's not supposed to be used as a substitution for other types of prevention. It should be used to complement. But there are people who just won't use a condom. As much as you try to convince them how important it is, they don't. And this is a methodology of prevention that clearly works if used properly, and that's the reason why we're enthusiastic about the circumstances where people can benefit if they use it. "

    Although Dr. Fauci is talking about PrEP, he is dealing with facts, not hypocritical and moral judgements.



    http://nhpr.org/post/effective-new-hiv-treatment-makes-researcher-hopeful-fighting-epidemic
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    Aug 11, 2014 1:02 AM GMT
    GAMRican saidUntil there are proven vaccines and cures...



    ...just use a condom.


    +10000
    Dude you rock, the voice of reason. Wish there were more like you and less like Timm.
  • roadbikeRob

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    Aug 11, 2014 1:26 AM GMT
    Pardon me but wasn't there a forum thread just recently that was titled that HIV rates have fallen for every group except young gay menicon_question.gif Inquiring minds want to knowicon_exclaim.gif
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    Aug 11, 2014 2:15 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidPardon me but wasn't there a forum thread just recently that was titled that HIV rates have fallen for every group except young gay menicon_question.gif Inquiring minds want to knowicon_exclaim.gif

    Yes, there have been MANY threads like that, because sadly that's true: HIV rates keep increasing among gay men.

    Unfortunately there are poz men like Timm/Unckabasa that advocate condomless sex with HIV+ people. His MANY posts and threads supporting this behavior certainly don't help young gay men to gain awareness of the serious HIV problem.

    Irresponsible and selfish is the less that can be said about this person Timm.
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    Aug 11, 2014 4:29 AM GMT
    David3K said
    roadbikeRob saidPardon me but wasn't there a forum thread just recently that was titled that HIV rates have fallen for every group except young gay menicon_question.gif Inquiring minds want to knowicon_exclaim.gif

    Yes, there have been MANY threads like that, because sadly that's true: HIV rates keep increasing among gay men.

    Unfortunately there are poz men like Timm/Unckabasa that advocate condomless sex with HIV+ people. His MANY posts and threads supporting this behavior certainly don't help young gay men to gain awareness of the serious HIV problem.

    Irresponsible and selfish is the less that can be said about this person Timm.


    You're an idiot.

    READ you dumb fuck.....it's there if you want to know. Instead of spewing 1990s rhetoric.

    That you too stupid to understand the difference between HIV and HIV/undetectable says it all. Again read the CDC page (above link). The level of HIV stigmatization on RJ is appalling.
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    Aug 11, 2014 4:37 AM GMT
    ^ Dude quit already. Believing any guy say "my viral load is 0" means shit. For all I know they could be lying, just like a guy saying "Im neg". For all I know your viral load is on the roof or the reults could have changed since your last test, who knows.

    And even then udetectable viral load STILL represents risk. Ask any AIDS/HIV line and they will tell you that, why are you trying to convince people otherwise?

    Only a sick mind would suggest to do such thing as barebaking with no condoms. Also your "you live in the 90s" attitude is nasty. You trying to make others believe HIV is not the shit disease it really is. With your behavior you only show your true colors to everyone in RJ, as simple as that.
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    Aug 11, 2014 4:37 AM GMT
    David3K said
    Irresponsible and selfish is the less least that can be said about this person Timmm.

    Fortunately there are enough responsible & informed guys here to counter his dangerous misinformation. The wonderful GAMRican among them, whom I've had the great pleasure of meeting in person.

    Let's hope no young guys here are confused & misled by all his self-serving double-talk about HIV. These are exactly the kind of false assurances they'll encounter on the street, that may lead them to make tragic decisions about disregarding the need to practice safe sex at all times, in all sexual hook-ups.

    As GAMRican unequivocally says:

    "Until there are proven vaccines and cures...

    ...just use a condom"
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 12, 2014 1:00 AM GMT
    roadbikeRob saidPardon me but wasn't there a forum thread just recently that was titled that HIV rates have fallen for every group except young gay menicon_question.gif Inquiring minds want to knowicon_exclaim.gif


    Another manifestation of their reality.
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    Aug 12, 2014 3:12 AM GMT
    I'll repeat the CDC suggestions and Dr. Fauci's quote.

    "Use condoms consistently and correctly."

    "If your partner is HIV-positive, encourage your partner to get and stay on treatment. ART reduces the amount of HIV virus (viral load) in blood and body fluids. ART can keep people with HIV healthy for many years, and greatly reduce the chance of transmitting HIV to sex partners if taken consistently and correctly."
    http://www.cdc.gov/hiv/basics/prevention.html


    "When you follow couples—one who's infected, the other who's not—the probability of infection diminishes when the viral load is very low," as when drugs have been administered. So, the study intends to get infected individuals' viral loads down to levels where they cannot infect their sexual partners#8212;even in the absence of a condom. "The philosophy," Fauci says, "is if you test everybody, and treat everybody who has HIV, you could use treatment as prevention."

    http://www.realjock.com/article/1546/



    TREATMENT as PREVENTION is THE game changer in the fight against AIDS in the past 30 years. NOT condoms. Not guilt. Not blame. With 25% of HIV patients on ART there has been a 30% reduction in new HIV infections, despite an increase of condomless sex.

    So why have so many 13-24 youths become positive (up 132%)? They are the least likely to be on ART Therapy, the most likely to serosort and NOT use condoms. Unfortunately here is an article targeting youth to serosort. http://www.gay-sd.com/opinion-april-18-2014/

    "In 2008, the Swiss National AIDS Commission issued what is now referred to as the “Swiss Statement.” The statement asserted that “an HIV-infected person on antiretroviral therapy with completely suppressed viraemia (“effective ART”) is not sexually infectious, i.e. cannot transmit HIV through sexual contact”. The statement was originally intended as an authoritative guide for Swiss doctors, in response to numerous prosecutions and convictions of many HIV positive people who had exposed their partners to HIV. The statement was to provide a legal connection for the medical evidence that doctors were to provide in such cases. Thus the Swiss Statement codified that fact that if an HIV positive person had a undetectable viral load, than it would be impossible for them to transmit the virus and could not be convicted of exposing their partner [3].

    The momentum continued in 2010, when China(???) became the first country to embrace the model, implementing a country-wide treatment as prevention strategy. The in 2011, the New England Journal of Medicine published the results of a major study [4] conducted by the US National Institutes of Health. The study, conducted in 13 countries, reporting a 96% reduction in the transmission of HIV in those receiving immediate treatment versus those receiving delayed treatment. The study was stopped four years early because it was deemed unethical to deny treatment any longer for the group that was delayed treatment. Since then UNAIDS has signed on to support treatment as prevention, launching the Treatment 2015 framework, which calls for intensified action and innovation to expedite treatment scale-up [5].
    http://nphr.wordpress.com/2014/04/03/a-primer-on-hiv-treatment-as-prevention/


    So basically the whole WORLD is in on my devious plan!



    condoms

    "Since the beginning of the HIV epidemic, condoms have been a cornerstone of our HIV prevention efforts -- often promoted as the most effective way to prevent the sexual transmission of the virus. However, in the past few years the number of HIV prevention options has increased and some people are interested in, or are already using, newer strategies. As a result, frontline service providers are being asked challenging questions: Are condoms the most effective strategy available? How do they compare to other strategies? This article explores the evidence on how effectively condoms prevent HIV transmission and the implications for our HIV prevention messaging.HIV prevention efforts need to focus on helping people adopt prevention strategies that are appropriate to their circumstances and will be most effective for them. If people are having difficulty using condoms or are having problems with condom breakage, slippage or leakage, counselling may help them use condoms more consistently and correctly.

    At the same time, alternative strategies for reducing the risk of HIV transmission may need to be discussed with these clients. When exploring other prevention options, it's important to clearly explain their limitations, factors that may decrease their effectiveness and how a person can keep their risk of HIV transmission as low as possible while using these strategies. No strategy -- including condoms -- is 100% effective; all have their limitations and can fail in different ways. Since condoms provide less than 100% protection, using other strategies in combination with condoms will help decrease a person's overall risk of HIV transmission. However, if a client or patient decreases their condom use in favour of a less protective strategy, they may be increasing their overall risk of HIV transmission."
    http://www.thebodypro.com/content/70694/condoms-tried-tested-and-true.html
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    Aug 12, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
    icon_eek.gif