Science and cutting gels.

  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Aug 18, 2014 7:35 PM GMT
    I'll start this off by saying that I know the mantra "abs are made in the kitchen", and I agree with that. I also know that (to my knowledge) there are no gutting gels on the market that are FDA approved. My question however comes down to science. Thanks to the countless acne treatments and creams made to fight wrinkles that are on the market today, we know that lotions and creams can be absorbed in our skin. Cutting gel makes it claim that its gel does just that, gets absorbed into the skin, and then attacks fat cells by blasting them into the bloodstream. If we can get lotions and creams into our body this way, isn't it at all possible that one day cutting gels could be a legitimate product? A mixture that when comes in contact with fat cells, make the fat cells break down?
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4433

    Aug 18, 2014 8:16 PM GMT
    Makes sense to me. I'll buy. Certainly sounds better than the drinkable kind that runs through your digestive tract causing all kinds of nasty.
  • xBEHEMOTHx

    Posts: 95

    Aug 18, 2014 8:18 PM GMT
    Never heard of it but I wouldn't doubt it..all I been hearing about us deer antler spray
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    Aug 18, 2014 8:49 PM GMT
    You mean mobilise fat stores rather than break down cells. Breaking down tissues quickly is pretty big risk for your kidneys and circulation. There are some cancer immuno-therapies that actually sent some patients in dialysis because their kidneys were failing after the tumour was broken down very quickly.

    Now, fat cells are told by energy balance hormones whether to add fat or release it. First of all there's a ton of different hormones that influence this. Second of all they almost all seem to be peptide hormones and you can't absorb peptides through your skin. So you want to modulate some peptide receptors with small organic molecule that is able to penetrate the skin. This is really hard. And the problem is that there's no medical need for what you want. So while the development might cost a billion dollars or more, no one is going to pay enough to recoup those costs. And you aren't going to get many scientists that actually want to work on it. It's pretty frivolous and most scientists would prefer to be trying to cure cancer or dementia or whatever.

    So yeah, the kitchen and the gym are probably your best bets.
  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Aug 18, 2014 9:45 PM GMT
    I'm not even gonna pretend that I know what you said haha. But there is one thing I can say I think you are wrong about. Weight and fat loss is a multi million dollar industry. If someone came up with an FDA approved fat loss cream, it would change fitness as we know it, and would make some scientists very rich and very famous.
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    Aug 18, 2014 9:51 PM GMT
    HPgeek934 saidI'm not even gonna pretend that I know what you said haha. But there is one thing I can say I think you are wrong about. Weight and fat loss is a multi million dollar industry. If someone came up with an FDA approved fat loss cream, it would change fitness as we know it, and would make some scientists very rich and very famous.


    It's a multi-million dollar industry because people will buy things without even knowing if they will work or not, just because they see it on TV, advertised by someone who lives in the gym and doesn't need the product.

    Eating the right foods consistently, working out, and avoiding junk food and idleness is hard, and (to most people) not fun, so they will - despite being duped - be ripe for the next thing to come along. It almost doesn't matter if it works.

  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Aug 18, 2014 10:11 PM GMT
    ShiftyJK08 said
    HPgeek934 saidI'm not even gonna pretend that I know what you said haha. But there is one thing I can say I think you are wrong about. Weight and fat loss is a multi million dollar industry. If someone came up with an FDA approved fat loss cream, it would change fitness as we know it, and would make some scientists very rich and very famous.


    It's a multi-million dollar industry because people will buy things without even knowing if they will work or not, just because they see it on TV, advertised by someone who lives in the gym and doesn't need the product.

    Eating the right foods consistently, working out, and avoiding junk food and idleness is hard, and (to most people) not fun, so they will - despite being duped - be ripe for the next thing to come along. It almost doesn't matter if it works.



    I know all that, my point is, what if it DOES work. It's a game changer.
  • 24hourguy

    Posts: 364

    Aug 18, 2014 10:58 PM GMT
    I'm thinking about all the people who buy anti-wrinkle creme, and anti-cellulite lotion. Sure they work because they plump up the surrounding areas but they don't really alleviate the problem....they just soften the appearance but do not "cure" the issue. This is probably about the same thing....I'm sure there is some science to it but....in the end I can't imagine a topical cream being strong enough (or safe enough at the strength required) to be a permanent fix. Just eat better, do your cardio, add some resistance training...and if all else fails, save up some $ and get lipo-sculpture...-that's my plan anyway icon_cool.gif
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    Aug 18, 2014 11:15 PM GMT
    Chances are, if this does anything (and that itself is doubtful) it probably acts as a diuretic (i.e., drains your body of water) more then actually "blasting" fat anywhere. Lean, high protein diets, regular cardio and muscle building exercise, applied consistently and varied regularly to prevent a plateau are the only real way to abs. You'd be better off spending your money on a good trainer then on any one of these latest gimmicks.
  • lgg5819

    Posts: 141

    Aug 19, 2014 1:10 AM GMT
    Cutting gels are garbage. Waste your money if you insist, but you won't be happy with the results. Because there won't be any results. Otherwise every fatty in America would rub some cream on their taint and suddenly be skinny.
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    Aug 19, 2014 6:10 AM GMT
    I've got some ocean front property in Arizona for sale, if you're interested OP. icon_lol.gif
  • charrismd

    Posts: 112

    Aug 19, 2014 6:49 AM GMT
    Aminophylline cream has been shown to have some effect in spot fat reduction. Here is a study demonstrating its results.

    "Diabetes Obes Metab. 2007 May;9(3):300-3.

    Topical fat reduction from the waist.
    Caruso MK1, Pekarovic S, Raum WJ, Greenway F.
    OBJECTIVE:

    Topical fat reduction from the thigh in women using aminophylline cream has been demonstrated... This study is designed to test the hypothesis that aminophylline cream application to the waist will reduce waist circumference compared with a control.

    RESEARCH METHODS AND PROCEDURES:

    Fifty men and women who are 21-65 years of age with a BMI greater than 27 kg/m(2) and a waist to hip ratio > or = average were randomized in a 1:1 ratio to 0.5% aminophylline cream to the waist twice a day or no treatment to the waist. All subjects were instructed to follow a 1200 kcal balanced diet, participate in a walking program and return biweekly to encourage compliance. A theophylline level was drawn monthly, and the waist, BMI and waist to hip ratio were remeasured at 12 weeks.
    RESULTS:

    At week 12, there was a significant reduction in BMI from baseline that was not different between the groups. The reduction in waist circumference was 11 +/- 1.0 cm in the aminophylline cream group and 5.0 +/- 0.6 cm in the control group (p < 0.001). The reduction in waist circumference was significant for both women and men, but the women lost significantly more waist girth. The waist to hip ratio, a measure of fat distribution, declined. Aminophylline levels were undetectable, and there were no adverse events.
    DISCUSSION:

    Aminophylline cream offers a safe and effective method for cosmetic local fat reduction from the waist."
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    Aug 19, 2014 7:04 AM GMT
    Yes, but due to the Orrin Hatch act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dietary_Supplement_Health_and_Education_Act_of_1994 supplements are neither food nor supplements so you don't have to prove them effective or particularly safe.

    There has been heaps of research on anti-obesity drugs since the only somewhat effective medical treatment is gastric bypass and even that has a massive risk of complications and death. There was one drug that interfered with the endocannabinoid system in the brain but that had the side effect of suicidal thoughts. Then there was another that was withdrawn because of some side effect on lungs... cancer? I can't remember. There would be a lot of medical benefits to a drug that fought obesity but the problem is that when people eat 5k+ kcals per day where is the energy going to go? We can interfere with nutrient absorption which leaves you vulnerable to dietary deficits. Then we can interfere with the want to eat which removes joy from your life. It's tricky.

    But since you aren't obese and have an attractive face then maybe you should just leverage that? Heck, you even have cum gutters. I want those.
    Generally, working out for some other goal than looking a certain way is more likely to make you happy and often a better bet for changing the way you look.
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    Aug 19, 2014 7:07 AM GMT
    charrismd saidAminophylline cream has been shown to have some effect in spot fat reduction. Here is a study demonstrating its results.

    "Diabetes Obes Metab. 2007 May;9(3):300-3.



    Well, there you go. Maybe I'm wrong =)
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    Aug 19, 2014 8:22 AM GMT
    HPgeek934 saidI'll start this off by saying that I know the mantra "abs are made in the kitchen", and I agree with that.
    Going by your latest profile pic, it seems your "ab kitchen" has went on strike. I like you, and that's why I'm being "brutally" honest. icon_biggrin.gif

    Yes there are ab gels. They only work for people who already workout and have a healthy diet (ie. the 'ab kitchen'), and have trouble getting rid of the last few lbs around their midsection.
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    Aug 19, 2014 11:44 AM GMT
    "if it sounds too good to be true it prob is" seems to fit here. I suspect all cutting gels that are on the market currently do is act as a diuretic and perhaps having some effect superficially on the skin via some sort of irritant that makes blood flow to the area. If anything claims to " get rid of x amount of fat cells" you can be sure its all lies, as humans always have the same number of fact cells in our bodies( same number for the individual not the same numbers for person X and Y). Only thing that happens is cells shrink in size when you " loose fat", you still have the same number of fat cells in you. The only exception to this rule is if someone gets Liposuction; this physically removes fat cells so they cant ever " expand back". However, other fat cells in the area can just expand even further to make up for the missing cells removed from lipo.
  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Aug 19, 2014 12:41 PM GMT
    paulflexes said
    HPgeek934 saidI'll start this off by saying that I know the mantra "abs are made in the kitchen", and I agree with that.
    Going by your latest profile pic, it seems your "ab kitchen" has went on strike. I like you, and that's why I'm being "brutally" honest. icon_biggrin.gif

    Yes there are ab gels. They only work for people who already workout and have a healthy diet (ie. the 'ab kitchen'), and have trouble getting rid of the last few lbs around their midsection.


    What is that supposed to mean?
  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Aug 19, 2014 12:42 PM GMT
    I think most of you are missing my point. I know they don't work. I've never used them because I know they are garbage. What I'm saying is what would happen if they did work. It seems plausible that something could be created to do that, and I think it would change fitness forever.
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    Aug 19, 2014 1:02 PM GMT
    HPgeek934 said
    paulflexes said
    HPgeek934 saidI'll start this off by saying that I know the mantra "abs are made in the kitchen", and I agree with that.
    Going by your latest profile pic, it seems your "ab kitchen" has went on strike. I like you, and that's why I'm being "brutally" honest. icon_biggrin.gif

    Yes there are ab gels. They only work for people who already workout and have a healthy diet (ie. the 'ab kitchen'), and have trouble getting rid of the last few lbs around their midsection.


    What is that supposed to mean?
    It's all in the PM. No disrespect intended. icon_biggrin.gif
  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Aug 19, 2014 1:26 PM GMT
    Yea well it was incredibly disrespectful dude and 100% not necessary.
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    Aug 19, 2014 3:53 PM GMT
    RJ forums always offer something worth reading.

    Here's what I got from this thread:

    http://clsgp-bastard.blogspot.co.uk/
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 19, 2014 4:28 PM GMT
    yeah lose a few pounds of fat and destroy your liver and kidneys - sounds like a plan

    do you really think stuff like this (even hypothetically) doesn't have any consequences?

    there's been thousands of cures, remedies and treatments for all kinds of conditions and diseases, you just tend to die from them
  • HPgeek934

    Posts: 970

    Aug 19, 2014 4:30 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidyeah lose a few pounds of fat and destroy your liver and kidneys - sounds like a plan

    do you really think stuff like this (even hypothetically) doesn't have any consequences?

    there's been thousands of cures, remedies and treatments for all kinds of conditions and diseases, you just tend to die from them


    Of course it has consequences and I know how bad it is for you and that's why I don't try them. I have kidney issues and an intestine disease, I wouldnt be stupid enough to rub something like that on my body.
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    Aug 19, 2014 5:50 PM GMT
    Determinate saidRJ forums always offer something worth reading.

    Here's what I got from this thread:

    http://clsgp-bastard.blogspot.co.uk/

    I wonder what he meant by the statement

     Now apart from lowering pH by fermentation all of these preservation methods have no influence on the health of your gut microbiota.

    A low PH means acidic and a high PH means alkaline, so he's saying that fermented foods, because they are acidic, are bad. I've never understood this way of thinking since our stomachs produce hydrochloric acid as part of our digestive process.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gastric_acid
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    Aug 19, 2014 5:55 PM GMT
    grofte saidYou mean mobilise fat stores rather than break down cells. Breaking down tissues quickly is pretty big risk for your kidneys and circulation. There are some cancer immuno-therapies that actually sent some patients in dialysis because their kidneys were failing after the tumour was broken down very quickly.

    I'm wondering how they manage that risk with CoolSculpting where they break down the fat by freezing it?

    http://tinyurl.com/l2q3g6z