Why Employers Are to Blame for the ‘Skills Gap’

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    Aug 19, 2014 6:03 PM GMT

    Finally, the truth comes out, the STEM 'crisis' is a myth and wages are being suppressed icon_evil.gif


    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-employers-blame-skills-gap-094500292.html


    He suggests that what is really driving the discussion about worker skills is a combination of employers seeking to hold down payroll costs by keeping wages as low as possible – and a longer-term effort to transfer responsibility for training workers from employers themselves to the taxpayer.

    Numerous economists have noted that when employers raise wages, skilled employees suddenly become easier to find – and Cappelli notes that much of the discussion about a skills gap appears to be driven by employers looking to hire workers on the cheap.


    http://www.nber.org/papers/w20382
    Indeed, a reasonable conclusion is that over-education remains the persistent and even growing situation of the US labor force with respect to skills.
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    Aug 19, 2014 8:18 PM GMT


    Why Does The Economy Stink? Because America's Owners Are Greedier Now Than Ever Before
    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-does-the-economy-stink--because-america-s-owners-are-greedier-now-than-ever-before-153656998.html


    The reason average American consumers are still strapped, meanwhile, is that America's companies and company owners — the small group of Americans who own and control America's corporations — are hogging a record percentage of the country's wealth for themselves.
  • Destinharbor

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    Aug 19, 2014 9:11 PM GMT
    I agree with this. And I was a commercial banker, leader in the Chamber of Commerce for decades. Corporations are getting so greedy that employees are just treated like production modules to be disposed of at will. I live in a high tech community and as companies were grown, they would invariably be sold to a bigger company from elsewhere and the local plant closed. The bigger company would relocate anywhere that the local governmental authorities would give them grants, tax abatements, and cash for worker training. When those communities didn't have the specific talent they wanted, they'd apply to the Federal government for waivers to bring in foreigners to fill the jobs at very low wages, comparatively. There is zero loyalty to good workers in corporate America.
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    Aug 20, 2014 12:36 PM GMT
    I completely agree with this.

    I am a recent college graduate with a good resume (good school, good GPA, good major, relevant internship experiences, involved and a leader in extracurriculars) and the only thing I could find after graduation is an unpaid internship.The reason that I am doing it is it is an industry that is hard to break in, pays well for full time employees and I have no relevant experience.

    But I had interviewed for other positions for supposedly white collar and graduate work and for the salary they were offering me it would have been impossible for me to afford living an ok lifestyle and pay my student loans. It would just have been better to work at Starbucks.

    America has lied to their youth. Opportunity in this country is something ever more difficult to find and all thanks to greedy business owners that would rather have three more cents on their income statements than take a more long term view of things.
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    Aug 20, 2014 4:14 PM GMT
    Can't say I "completely" agree with these posts, but they do make some good points beyond dispute, the greed of many corporate executives being foremost. However, they don't mention another factor: the constant, unrelenting push for "diversity," which is really nothing more than de facto affirmative action. That this results in far too many unqualified, if not outright unfit, people being hired and retained is also beyond doubt; the only issue is WHY?
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    Aug 20, 2014 8:29 PM GMT
    Employers are picky nowadays since there are so many people looking for work. They train less hours but want to maximize your potential. Furthermore, They make people jump through a lot of hoops. It hurts them in the long run because it discourages great employees from being loyal.
    There are no perfect candidate, people need time to learn the way business work once they join. A good company takes their time with you and care about you.
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    Aug 20, 2014 8:29 PM GMT
    I could've told you that. The STEM shortage is myth concocted by corporations who wanted an excuse to get the government to start an H-1B Visa racket to ship in more Raj Koothrappalis so they can suppress STEM wages.

    lead.jpg?n2qnc1

    The economic woes we are going through in this country are partially due to mass immigration both legal and illegal. The CIS came out with a study recently claiming that employment growth since 2000 went to immigrants.
    http://cis.org/all-employment-growth-since-2000-went-to-immigrants
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    Aug 20, 2014 8:43 PM GMT
    Raj Koothrappalis has mathematical skills to perform his physics job. If you look at graduates like Ravensong who desires jobs in human resources and other areas, one would face more competition. Many graduates in this country eschew mathematic courses and courses in the sciences and engineering.

    So at one end of the spectrum where unskilled labor is at, one would compete with every body who is unskilled, and at the other end of the spectrum, where highly skilled jobs in mathematics, science, and engineering are available but fewer domestic candidates. This is one of the problems facing the USA.

    The other problem is alluded to by the NYT that companies took the opportunity of the Great Recession and get rid of jobs that do not require highly skilled employees. They have automated them or farmed them out.
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    Aug 20, 2014 8:56 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidRaj Koothrappalis has mathematical skills to perform his physics job. If you look at graduates like Ravensong who desires jobs in human resources and other areas, one would face more competition. Many graduates in this country eschew mathematic courses and courses in the sciences and engineering.

    Sam Jones has those same mathematics skills to perform his physics job but he won't work for peanuts so he lost out and is working at the mall. icon_neutral.gif

    As for me. I had to take Algebra, Calculus, Statistics and Probabilities, Accounting, Finance, Compensation and Benefits and Supply Chain Management to get my degree.
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    Aug 20, 2014 9:00 PM GMT
    pazzy saidof course, these employers are so fucking full of shit. it's depressing as hell. you have to jump through a ring of fire for the college degree, all having to take time off of whatever job, and live your life around your school where you can't even intern or do whatever. you graduate and then you gotta jump through another ring of fire where they're like "wait... you don't have ENOUGH experience". how the fuck is anybody supposed to get experience IF you're not letting them get it? they don't even count internships and who in their right mind wants that when you got loans and bills to pay. these corporations and businesses have way too much freedom to do whatever they want.

    i actually applied and got an interview to a file clerk job last week right. they WON'T even consider somebody if you don't have a college degree. icon_eek.gif WTF? and check this out..... this country is on some bullshit.

    This part is what pisses me off the most. It's all like "entry level job, 2 years of experience required, have all skills before you are hired because we're too cheap to train you."

    These days you are honestly better off starting your own business instead of depending on big business.
  • Apparition

    Posts: 3521

    Aug 20, 2014 9:05 PM GMT
    woodsmen saidRaj Koothrappalis has mathematical skills to perform his physics job. If you look at graduates like Ravensong who desires jobs in human resources and other areas, one would face more competition. Many graduates in this country eschew mathematic courses and courses in the sciences and engineering.

    So at one end of the spectrum where unskilled labor is at, one would compete with every body who is unskilled, and at the other end of the spectrum, where highly skilled jobs in mathematics, science, and engineering are available but fewer domestic candidates. This is one of the problems facing the USA.

    The other problem is alluded to by the NYT that companies took the opportunity of the Great Recession and get rid of jobs that do not require highly skilled employees. They have automated them or farmed them out.


    actually no, there is no lack of mathematical and science either, slaves are just cheaper, and nobody wants to spend money on training because the company that didnt spend that money will steal them..or so that story goes. of course that leads to nobody ever being trained and employers complaining to the government that nobody is trained give us tax breaks.

    they should just pass an apprenticeship law and ban internships. if you have X people in a field you must hire Y apprentices. problem solved. It is cheaper, faster, and provides more jobs to boot.
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    Aug 20, 2014 9:13 PM GMT
    Ravensong said
    pazzy saidof course, these employers are so fucking full of shit. it's depressing as hell. you have to jump through a ring of fire for the college degree, all having to take time off of whatever job, and live your life around your school where you can't even intern or do whatever. you graduate and then you gotta jump through another ring of fire where they're like "wait... you don't have ENOUGH experience". how the fuck is anybody supposed to get experience IF you're not letting them get it? they don't even count internships and who in their right mind wants that when you got loans and bills to pay. these corporations and businesses have way too much freedom to do whatever they want.

    i actually applied and got an interview to a file clerk job last week right. they WON'T even consider somebody if you don't have a college degree. icon_eek.gif WTF? and check this out..... this country is on some bullshit.

    This part is what pisses me off the most. It's all like "entry level job, 2 years of experience required, have all skills before you are hired because we're too cheap to train you."

    These days you are honestly better off starting your own business instead of depending on big business.


    Completely agreed and understand where you both are coming from. From my understanding, when they say *entry level jobs or whatever, depending on the industry, they prefer you to be familiar with that industry a little bit. Like Law, entry level clerk assistant, require 6 months in an office/law environment or whatever. Furthermore, there are so many grads with degrees and even MBA people trying to land jobs. Employers can be picky. They may think that someone who hasn't obtain a degree can't tough it out in the long run. Most people who start their own business either have their own nest egg money already or invent something or already had tons of experience in a certain field. It's the economy, not you, Keep looking, don't get discourage and I recommend thinking about relocation too.
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    Aug 20, 2014 9:33 PM GMT
    Ravensong: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3889281
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    Aug 20, 2014 9:36 PM GMT
    Pazzy:

    ^ According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, here are the breakdowns:

    Professional and business services: 47,000
    Manufacturing: 28,000
    Retail trade: 26,700
    Construction: 22,000
    Leisure and hospitality: 21,000
    Education and health services: 17,000
    Government: 11,000
    Mining and logging: 8,000
    Transportation and warehousing: 7,900
    Financial activities: 7,000
    Other services: 7,000
    Wholesale trade: 2,700
    Information: 2,000

    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/02/upshot/five-charts-that-explain-the-jobs-report.html?
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    Aug 20, 2014 10:21 PM GMT

    National debt is not the same as personal debt ( mentioned above). Republicans often cause confusion of this issue.

    NYT: First, families have to pay back their debt. Governments don’t — all they need to do is ensure that debt grows more slowly than their tax base. The debt from World War II was never repaid; it just became increasingly irrelevant as the U.S. economy grew, and with it the income subject to taxation.

    Second — and this is the point almost nobody seems to get — an over-borrowed family owes money to someone else; U.S. debt is, to a large extent, money we owe to ourselves.

    This was clearly true of the debt incurred to win World War II. Taxpayers were on the hook for a debt that was significantly bigger, as a percentage of G.D.P., than debt today; but that debt was also owned by taxpayers, such as all the people who bought savings bonds. So the debt didn’t make postwar America poorer. In particular, the debt didn’t prevent the postwar generation from experiencing the biggest rise in incomes and living standards in our nation’s history.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/02/opinion/krugman-nobody-understands-debt.html?
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    Aug 20, 2014 10:42 PM GMT
    You said it is "unconscionable" to help someone like Ravensong to start a small business given that this young person could not find a job with a corporation who ships his job overseas while getting a tax benefit to do so. The reason for this is the "debt" interpreting it as if it was a personal debt.
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    Aug 21, 2014 1:39 AM GMT
    Here is the simple truth..
    For the price of one entry level developer in the US, a company can employee 3 - 4 intermediate developers in India, Russia, or China.

    This "lack of skilled workers" is total bullshit. There are plenty that are ready and willing to work. Employers just aren't willing to pay their US salaries.
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    Aug 21, 2014 1:44 AM GMT
    xrichx saidHere is the simple truth..
    For the price of one entry level developer in the US, a company can employee 3 - 4 intermediate developers in India, Russia, or China.

    This "lack of skilled workers" is total bullshit. There are plenty that are ready and willing to work. Employers just aren't willing to pay their US salaries.


    Cheaper labor oversea. I worked for a company who outsourced their production to china, s Korea before. The quality wasn't that great. It ends up hurting the company in the long run. But yeah, most US companies outsource their jobs to China, India or wherever now. It even upsets me more when they're willing to sponsor, visa an Oversea employee instead of hiring someone locally and train them. Life is not fair. Urg... icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 21, 2014 6:24 AM GMT
    southbeach1500 said
    woodsmen saidRavensong: http://www.realjock.com/gayforums/3889281


    New York Times representative (a.k.a. "Woodsmen"): Why would anyone in good conscience take grant money from the Federal government (which is over $17 TRILLION in debt) to start a private business?

    It's unconscionable.

    The argument that the wealth that would be created (and accompanying tax revenue) would even make a dent in the debt would be laughable if it wasn't so misguided.




    Because some successful governments give opportunity easily to anyone who wants it with no BS attached to it, Hong Kong comes to mind, seems to me, its a problem specific to US, big corporations and their politics icon_idea.gif


    Hong Kong Starting a Business (Financing & Planning)
    http://www.gov.hk/en/business/supportenterprises/businesstopics/financialplanning.htm

    Government Funding Schemes
    http://www.gov.hk/en/business/supportenterprises/funding/
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    Aug 21, 2014 6:50 AM GMT
    Anesthesiologists, the highest paid profession but really not worth the insurance costs?
    In LA, they could pull in $250,000 a year, but still have to pay $50,000 yearly insurance, that is still a cool 200K, but add tax bracket, 35%, and they only pull 130K, not bad, but for 8-10 years of school, I would not pursue. A corporate manager can make this without insurance premium and still be in a lower tax bracket. STEM is still a better deal overall


    http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes291061.htm



    Employment (1) 30,200

    Employment 5.3 %
    RSE (3)

    Mean hourly $113.01
    wage

    Mean annual $235,070
    wage (2)

    Wage RSE (3) 1.6 %



    How Is Anesthesiologist Insurance Cost Determined?


    The specifics that insurance companies use to determine the price of anesthesiologist insurance vary from company to company. Most of the cost is determined by the likelihood of a malpractice lawsuit.

    Here are the most important determinants of pricing:
    •Practice location: different states have different laws and requirements.
    •Whether or not you currently have anesthesia malpractice insurance.
    •Whether the practice is full time or part time.
    •Whether there any existing claims to be settled.
    •Whether you are a member of a medical group.
    •Whether you work with physicians performing major or minor surgery.
    •The policy limits you choose.


    Your policy limits are the most important when it comes to pricing. Typical policy limits in most states are $1 million per occurrence, and $3 million as an annual aggregate. Some states and hospital systems are now requiring increases to $2 million/$6 million. However, many insurance companies do not offer those limits

    Before the development of monitoring improvements during the 1980s, anesthesiologist malpractice insurance rates were considerably higher than they are today.

    •The "pulse oximeter" and "end-tidal carbon dioxide monitor" have significantly reduced brain and heart oxygen deprivation issues, which led to many malpractice cases.

    •In the 1980s, surgical anesthesia claims represented 80% of all anesthesia malpractice claims. They are now less than 65%.

    •In 1985, the average anesthesia malpractice insurance premium was over $36,000 per year. In 2009, it was just over $21,000, which is inflation-adjusted into 2008 dollars.

    •The risk of a malpractice lawsuit in 2009 was 7% for anesthesiologists, compared to the extremes of neurosurgeons at 19.1% and psychiatrists at 2.6%.
    •In 1973, anesthesia related deaths were approximately 1 in 1500. Today, that number is 1 in 200,000.

    In addition to monitoring improvements, education for today's anesthesiologists has also improved to a significant extent. These have combined to create a more favorable landscape for anesthesiologist malpractice insurance costs.


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    Aug 21, 2014 6:58 AM GMT
    Those that are getting out of college shouldn't be discouraged. Even if those entry level jobs require 5 years of experience, go ahead and apply anyways. Trust me, those job descriptions are always inflated. If someone had all the skills/experience listed in the job ad, that person person wouldn't be applying for that job. Instead, they'd be applying for a position that's a notch or two above that.
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    Aug 21, 2014 7:16 AM GMT
    xrichx saidThose that are getting out of college shouldn't be discouraged. Even if those entry level jobs require 5 years of experience, go ahead and apply anyways. Trust me, those job descriptions are always inflated. If someone had all the skills/experience listed in the job ad, that person person wouldn't be applying for that job. Instead, they'd be applying for a position that's a notch or two above that.



    Corporate America must be complaining about the recent college grads, as far as "skills gap", the workforce with all the true skills have been pushed aside, laid off due to age and their rising wages. With age comes experience, skills and the appropriate wage to ask for. If they truly want the skills back, they will need to start hiring the 35-55 year old crowd back, pay them what they are worth. I guess the corporate idea of the "ready to work, cheap wage, college grad" has backfired and is a failed experiment
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    Aug 21, 2014 8:16 AM GMT
    scruffLA said
    xrichx saidThose that are getting out of college shouldn't be discouraged. Even if those entry level jobs require 5 years of experience, go ahead and apply anyways. Trust me, those job descriptions are always inflated. If someone had all the skills/experience listed in the job ad, that person person wouldn't be applying for that job. Instead, they'd be applying for a position that's a notch or two above that.



    Corporate America must be complaining about the recent college grads, as far as "skills gap", the workforce with all the true skills have been pushed aside, laid off due to age and their rising wages. With age comes experience, skills and the appropriate wage to ask for. If they truly want the skills back, they will need to start hiring the 35-55 year old crowd back, pay them what they are worth. I guess the corporate idea of the "ready to work, cheap wage, college grad" has backfired and is a failed experiment


    Exactly they want cheap labor and no experience, their companies are going down. I support the idea of hiring older workers. New grads can apply for more training and appropriate entry jobs in their desire fields.
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    Aug 21, 2014 10:39 AM GMT
    This issue is plaguing the airline industry...particularly the regional airlines, which start new pilots at around $19K/year. And the pilots they're getting are spoiled rich kids who barely passed their tests through training, and are supported by their families cause nobody can live on that low of a salary.

    And people wonder why regional airlines have higher crash/death rates. icon_eek.gif
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    Aug 21, 2014 1:09 PM GMT
    My dad taught English at three different community colleges for several years after being laid off as editor of a newspaper (an industry we are allowing to implode which plays into the hands of the same people the OP mentions... the less you know, the better).

    His experience was that young native-born Americans coming in out of high school not only could not write or spell, but they had absolutely no knowledge of their own history and culture. He couldn't use "Robert F. Kennedy" or Leaves of Grass as an example without first having to explain the topic to them as if they just got off the plane from Pluto. These were high school graduates coming out of "good" suburban school districts. They didn't want to do their homework, were consistently late or absent, slept in class, and gave excuses like, "I'm just not a good student."

    Meanwhile, he also taught recent immigrants. Not only did they outperform the "American" students in a language that was not native to them, they had a better grasp of a history that is not "theirs", paid attention, and did their homework. And these were, as he learned, people who had two or three jobs, kids at home to take care of, etc.

    This was just his experience at three schools quite near each other, but it was profound and consistent enough to make a mark.

    I don't disagree that we are being exploited to some degree by the corporate machine. However we also contribute to the problem with our sense of entitlement. We expect a good living despite not really preparing our students or expecting them to study. We don't like that manufacturing jobs went to China, but we don't have a problem buying those goods because they're cheap. We will shop at Wal-Mart despite knowing our taxes are subsidizing the workers' food budgets because their employer won't pay them a living wage.

    These are things that are, to some degree, in our control. If we held corporations accountable with our purchasing dollar, they would have to snap to.