AHF To Gay Men: Prep Is Not The Miracle HIV Prevention Drug You Think It Is

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Aug 23, 2014 7:58 PM GMT
    "We want the public to know that the government-sanctioned widespread scale up of PrEP appears to be a public health disaster in the making,” ~AIDS Healthcare Foundation.




    http://www.thegailygrind.com/2014/08/23/ahf-gay-men-prep-miracle-hiv-drug-think/
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    Aug 23, 2014 8:03 PM GMT
    Lots of ignorance and craziness revolving around PrEP. Some guys think it's the magic ticket to promiscuous bareback sex.
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    Aug 23, 2014 8:07 PM GMT
    So people aren't even taking the recommended dosage, and expect just buying it would keep them safe.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 23, 2014 10:22 PM GMT
    you would be insane to take 2 dangerous drugs as prophylaxis and risk destroying your liver and kidneys to prevent an infection you don't have
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    Aug 23, 2014 10:31 PM GMT
    Well its simple. If you decide to take Truvada (PreP) then you're taking it for life (or as long as you plan on having sex).

    Not sure of the exact consequences of inconsistency which results in an HIV infection where there is resistance to Truvada (which is prescribed often with other drugs to combat HIV infection).
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 23, 2014 10:36 PM GMT
    ^^

    if you take it for life, I suggest you read the entire drug PI (product information) sheet, not just the blurbs on the websites - these drugs are dangerous
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    Aug 23, 2014 10:39 PM GMT
    tj85016 said^^

    if you take it for life, I suggest you read the entire drug PI (product information) sheet, not just the blurbs on the websites - these drugs are dangerous


    So what are you exactly worried about? Side effects? I'd be curious about long effects of liver damage. I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol (which people consume regularly) is worse than taking a pill.
  • a303guy

    Posts: 829

    Aug 23, 2014 10:44 PM GMT
    tj85016 saidyou would be insane to take 2 dangerous drugs as prophylaxis and risk destroying your liver and kidneys to prevent an infection you don't have


    This.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 23, 2014 10:50 PM GMT
    S34n05 said
    tj85016 said^^

    if you take it for life, I suggest you read the entire drug PI (product information) sheet, not just the blurbs on the websites - these drugs are dangerous


    So what are you exactly worried about? Side effects? I'd be curious about long effects of liver damage. I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol (which people consume regularly) is worse than taking a pill.


    you're clueless man, read the PI and the drug data - it's not a "pill" it's 2 extremely dangerous drugs - so why take it solely for prophylaxis?

    this reminds me of all the oral anti-diabetic drugs that killed so many people in the 90's and 00's
  • vodka_cran

    Posts: 21

    Aug 23, 2014 11:10 PM GMT
    Basically the article says it's not a miracle pill because people don't take it like they should. That's true of any medication, if you don't follow the dosage, you won't get the desired effects.

    Is it really that difficult to take a single pill a day? I just take it at the sametime I take my multivitamin, it's not really that difficult.

    As for the side effects, it's all about weighing your personal pros and cons. For me, I'm a single guy. I would rather have an extra layer of protection against contracting a lifelong disease. That being said, I haven't noticed any side effects, or anything which would make me stop taking the pill. I think the benefits are worth it.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 23, 2014 11:14 PM GMT
    ^^

    side effects are NOT the result of weighing your individual pros and cons - these drugs slowly DESTROY your liver PERIOD, END OF STORY (and most likely have consequences on your kidneys just to metabolize the drug molecules and by-products)

    so be my guest, roll the dice

    no long term study data is available
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    Aug 23, 2014 11:28 PM GMT
    tj85016 said
    ...these drugs slowly DESTROY your liver PERIOD, END OF STORY (and most likely have consequences on your kidneys just to metabolize the drug molecules and by-products)

    so be my guest, roll the dice

    no long term study data is available

    And yet there's an RJ member here who's been promoting barebacking with poz guys, based on this.
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    Aug 23, 2014 11:55 PM GMT
    silver_phoenix said
    Given the high levels of flaky, reckless behaviour I have witnessed amongst gay men over the years...

    You haven't witnessed shit. You aren't gay, so stop preaching about things of which you have no actual knowledge.
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    Aug 24, 2014 6:02 AM GMT
    Hi, I know that nerdy people usually feel very nerdy and intelligent when they use language that only other nerdy people like them understand (the need to feel exclusive and exceptional is very human throughout history) but in America you do not impress people when you use big words or technical language or acronyms for things to make the regular people feel ignorant. All you do is make the regular people distrust whatever you are saying (you are trying to get something over on us that we don't understand). So, is there someone on here who knows what this nerdy guy is saying in his nerdy smart language about medicine or AIDS, I assume, and can communicate it in a simple way that us regular people can understand? It sounds like he is incompetently trying to say something important that I should know or be aware of.
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    Aug 24, 2014 3:49 PM GMT
    Also some will develop drug resistance making them more susceptible to infection and if they do get infected, there may not be many options to treat them.
  • metta

    Posts: 39133

    Aug 24, 2014 4:14 PM GMT
    From my fb feed, I have noticed that a lot of gay men are furious over AHF's position on this. They have said that they will not contribute to them ever again...will not use their services to get tested, etc. They want to see them close down.

    The reactions remind me of that moment in And The Band Played On when gay people were told they needed to use condoms and they were talking about closing down the bathhouses in San Francisco.

    Is there any data available that proves that the results from the data that AHF is looking at is wrong?

    I hope that one of the results of the AHF campaign will be that the people that are taking it will be more vigilant at taking it when they are supposed to.
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    Aug 24, 2014 4:25 PM GMT
    Michael Weinstein together with the AIDS Healthcare Foundation have for months been at the center of the so-called "Truvada Wars" which much has been written about since early 2014.

    http://lmgtfy.com/?q=truvada+wars
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    Aug 24, 2014 7:13 PM GMT
    The cdc releases nothing without approval from the Obama Whitehouse so truvada must be perfect.

    Follow the money silly, gullible liberal gays: Truvada's maker Gilead contributed 89.5% to Obama in 2008 and 2012.

    http://www.buybackyourvote.com/company/gilead-sciences#t=graph&v=party&se=President&st=&y=2008-2012&ch=n

    Obama doesn't need zyklonb, he's got truvada.
  • KissTheSky

    Posts: 1981

    Aug 24, 2014 7:13 PM GMT
    It seems suspicious that there are no links to data about the actual studies.
    Also, given the number of times the word "vaginal" is used to describe the methods used in the studies, many of these studies were on straight people, not gay men.
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    Aug 24, 2014 7:15 PM GMT
    Prep or not, I have no interest in being with someone with HIV. Sorry no sorry.
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    Aug 24, 2014 8:03 PM GMT
    S34n05 said
    tj85016 saidI'd be curious about long effects of liver damage. I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol (which people consume regularly) is worse than taking a pill.


    First of all, yes, certain pills can be much more hazardous to your liver than occasional alcohol usage. But that doesn't even matter because that type of argument never works: it's not either-or. No one is saying: "You can either take a pill or you can drink alcohol" because option C is both and option D is neither.
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    Aug 24, 2014 8:07 PM GMT
    declansloan saidHi, I know that nerdy people usually feel very nerdy and intelligent when they use language that only other nerdy people like them understand (the need to feel exclusive and exceptional is very human throughout history) but in America you do not impress people when you use big words or technical language or acronyms for things to make the regular people feel ignorant. All you do is make the regular people distrust whatever you are saying (you are trying to get something over on us that we don't understand). So, is there someone on here who knows what this nerdy guy is saying in his nerdy smart language about medicine or AIDS, I assume, and can communicate it in a simple way that us regular people can understand? It sounds like he is incompetently trying to say something important that I should know or be aware of.

    What are you even talking about? Are you talking about the original post? There isn't a single "big word" in there. And the only acronym is PrEP which only requires a quick google search to understand--it's a drug that all the gays are (erroniously) hailing as the miracle drug which will allow them to have all the bareback random sex they want, not understanding fully how to use it or what the health risks are.
  • tj85016

    Posts: 4123

    Aug 24, 2014 9:03 PM GMT
    thenes said
    S34n05 said
    tj85016 saidI'd be curious about long effects of liver damage. I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol (which people consume regularly) is worse than taking a pill.


    First of all, yes, certain pills can be much more hazardous to your liver than occasional alcohol usage. But that doesn't even matter because that type of argument never works: it's not either-or. No one is saying: "You can either take a pill or you can drink alcohol" because option C is both and option D is neither.


    lol that makes no sense at all. "it doesn't matter", what a dumb thing to say.

    what does Tenofovir/emtricitabine (Truvada) have to do with alcohol?

    Various molecules (e.g. drugs, chemicals, etc) kill or mutate cells in thousands of different ways.

    Truvada should only be taken if you're HIV+ or you are COMPLETELY out of your mind.
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    Aug 25, 2014 1:18 AM GMT
    tj85016 said
    thenes said
    S34n05 said
    tj85016 saidI'd be curious about long effects of liver damage. I wouldn't be surprised if alcohol (which people consume regularly) is worse than taking a pill.


    First of all, yes, certain pills can be much more hazardous to your liver than occasional alcohol usage. But that doesn't even matter because that type of argument never works: it's not either-or. No one is saying: "You can either take a pill or you can drink alcohol" because option C is both and option D is neither.


    lol that makes no sense at all. "it doesn't matter", what a dumb thing to say.

    what does Tenofovir/emtricitabine (Truvada) have to do with alcohol?

    Various molecules (e.g. drugs, chemicals, etc) kill or mutate cells in thousands of different ways.

    Truvada should only be taken if you're HIV+ or you are COMPLETELY out of your mind.


    You misunderstood what I meant by "it doesn't matter". Obviously anything that causes liver damage DOES matter, what I meant (and should have written was) "that's not the point here". Some people are saying "oh, all it does is possibly harm the liver? Well so does alcohol and I already do that, so whatever" without realizing how little sense that makes--doing multiple things to harm the liver can only expedite the damage. It's like when people try to argue that there's no point in worrying the US causing air pollution because emerging countries are already causing it so we might as well too... without understanding that if we ALSO relax our standards it will expedite the worsening of the air quality around the world.
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    Aug 25, 2014 2:37 AM GMT
    thenes said
    declansloan saidHi, I know that nerdy people usually feel very nerdy and intelligent when they use language that only other nerdy people like them understand (the need to feel exclusive and exceptional is very human throughout history) but in America you do not impress people when you use big words or technical language or acronyms for things to make the regular people feel ignorant. All you do is make the regular people distrust whatever you are saying (you are trying to get something over on us that we don't understand). So, is there someone on here who knows what this nerdy guy is saying in his nerdy smart language about medicine or AIDS, I assume, and can communicate it in a simple way that us regular people can understand? It sounds like he is incompetently trying to say something important that I should know or be aware of.

    What are you even talking about? Are you talking about the original post? There isn't a single "big word" in there. And the only acronym is PrEP which only requires a quick google search to understand--it's a drug that all the gays are (erroniously) hailing as the miracle drug which will allow them to have all the bareback random sex they want, not understanding fully how to use it or what the health risks are.
    I know, you will have to forgive my ignorance because I'm not HIV positive and I haven't really been keeping up with the medical lingo on it. I have no problems admitting when I'm ignorant or an idiot about something. I know what I know and I know what I don't know.