The Hypocrisy of Gay Shower Panic

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    Aug 29, 2014 4:48 PM GMT
    Queue the towel dance and gym shower stalls with curtains icon_rolleyes.gif


    http://www.slate.com/blogs/outward/2014/08/28/espn_investigates_michael_sam_s_shower_behavior_exploring_the_hypocrisy.html

    Gay Men Probably Look at Straight Men in the Shower—and That's Not A Problem

    Sports showers represent an intensely “vulnerable state” for men who are defined by masculinity

    Even absent openly gay co-bathers, communal showers have always been fraught places for straight men. They’ve historically been a troubled spot for integration—Jackie Robinson, the first black major league baseball player, was reportedly hesitant to shower with the Dodgers until another outsider teammate convinced him to join in


    shutterstock_150953807.jpg.CROP.promo-me

  • starboard5

    Posts: 969

    Aug 30, 2014 4:34 PM GMT
    Gay, straight, young, old, watched or watching...there's one response that always comes to mind. "It's a dick. There's three and a half trillion of them on the planet. Yours isn't that special."
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    Aug 30, 2014 5:06 PM GMT
    I can understand Jackie Robinson being hesitant to shower with all the white boys...jealousy and all that...but panic?

    So funny. No panic.
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    Aug 30, 2014 5:19 PM GMT
    For guys who've played team sports in high school & college, you're totally fine with showering with your teammates, and you don't think anything of it. It's just a healthy, normal part of team camaraderie. The recent crop of towel dance shyness is just unheard of......something we never saw anyone pull.
    b5121949.jpg
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Aug 30, 2014 6:28 PM GMT
    When I was in school, from 7th grade on up you were required to shower after every gym class and every team practice. So if you played sports, you were taking showers right next to other naked guys twice a day. Hell, at the YMCA (which was all male back then), they didn't even allow swimsuits in the pool - everybody swam naked. So, in case you were wondering what the Village People were singing about...

    At first it was uncomfortable (when I was 12), but then (after about two weeks) it was just normal. Yes, you checked each other out - straight guys did too - but so what? Oddly, the ones who didn't want to shower with the rest of the guys were the ones who were accused of being gay.

    The whole point of making us shower together was to make it no big deal to be around other naked guys. And guess what? It worked.

    We were so comfortable with it in fact, that when I was in college - and they still had gang showers in the dorms - my roommate and I, and a couple other friends, would come home after a frigid-ass football game, jump right into the hot shower with fresh beers, and spend a good half hour just soaking up the heat, drinking, joking, and bullshitting. It fucking rocked. And as far as I know, I was the only gay one (I wasn't out back then).

    Then around the mid-1980s, America realized there was such thing as homosexuals, and they weren't just in Greenwich Village and Hollywood - they were everywhere. So, boys were no longer required to shower together after gym class and practice. And let's face it, if you give a high school kid a choice, he won't get naked with the boys.

    So, now there's a whole generation of guys who feel uncomfortable being naked around other guys.

    In the gym where I work out, there are no curtains on the shower stalls (it's in the 'hood, and apparently somebody was taking a shit in the showers, so they pulled the curtains off). At least half the guys who use the showers do so in their underwear.

    It's sad.
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    Aug 31, 2014 12:57 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidWhen I was in school, from 7th grade on up you were required to shower after every gym class and every team practice. So if you played sports, you were taking showers right next to other naked guys twice a day. Hell, at the YMCA (which was all male back then), they didn't even allow swimsuits in the pool - everybody swam naked. So, in case you were wondering what the Village People were singing about...

    At first it was uncomfortable (when I was 12), but then (after about two weeks) it was just normal. Yes, you checked each other out - straight guys did too - but so what? Oddly, the ones who didn't want to shower with the rest of the guys were the ones who were accused of being gay.

    The whole point of making us shower together was to make it no big deal to be around other naked guys. And guess what? It worked.

    We were so comfortable with it in fact, that when I was in college - and they still had gang showers in the dorms - my roommate and I, and a couple other friends, would come home after a frigid-ass football game, jump right into the hot shower with fresh beers, and spend a good half hour just soaking up the heat, drinking, joking, and bullshitting. It fucking rocked. And as far as I know, I was the only gay one (I wasn't out back then).

    Then around the mid-1980s, America realized there was such thing as homosexuals, and they weren't just in Greenwich Village and Hollywood - they were everywhere. So, boys were no longer required to shower together after gym class and practice. And let's face it, if you give a high school kid a choice, he won't get naked with the boys.

    So, now there's a whole generation of guys who feel uncomfortable being naked around other guys.

    In the gym where I work out, there are no curtains on the shower stalls (it's in the 'hood, and apparently somebody was taking a shit in the showers, so they pulled the curtains off). At least half the guys who use the showers do so in their underwear.

    It's sad.



    From what I have recently read, "the problem" is so bad now that when NEW schools are planned, in the building stage, either shower stalls are constructed and/or a limited amount of them are put into locker rooms because todays youth are either not required to shower (it was mandated by board of education to require and then not require) or most of the class, boys especially choose not to shower. Add the fact P.E. has been cut by budget restraints in many school districts across the country. Funny, across generational lines, communal showering has never been a "problem" for women, young girls, lesbians icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 31, 2014 1:04 AM GMT
    I don't like being naked publicly either. Complete strangers do not need to see me naked nor do I want to see them naked
  • bro4bro

    Posts: 1034

    Aug 31, 2014 1:05 AM GMT
    Yep, a young friend of mine (he's 26) told me at his Seattle-area high school the guys on the swim team went into the toilet stalls to change into their Speedos!!!!!!
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    Aug 31, 2014 1:13 AM GMT
    bro4bro saidYep, a young friend of mine (he's 26) told me at his Seattle-area high school the guys on the swim team went into the toilet stalls to change into their Speedos!!!!!!



    What? icon_eek.gif, that is just pure fear, asinine. A whole generation of males, gripped by fear, brought on, no doubt by the 1980's conservative movement icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 31, 2014 1:18 AM GMT
    atlanticshore saidI don't like being naked publicly either. Complete strangers do not need to see me naked nor do I want to see them naked



    Well, you are 18, a generation who grew up in conservative, fear and shame about the human body. Just know that your previous generations were, are, not like yours.
  • whytehot

    Posts: 1166

    Aug 31, 2014 1:21 AM GMT
    What conservative movement? People are showing off their bodies more than ever before. Just not for old cruisey gays at the gym.

    As usual these threads are full of have-beens who aren't getting any action reminiscing the good old days when they could at least look at naked guys

    Times have changed, and you have only gay culture and locker-room-themed porn to thank for it.
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    Aug 31, 2014 1:33 AM GMT
    whytehot saidWhat conservative movement? People are showing off their bodies more than ever before. Just not for old cruisey gays at the gym.

    As usual these threads are full of have-beens who aren't getting any action reminiscing the good old days when they could at least look at naked guys

    Times have changed, and you have only gay culture and locker-room-themed porn to thank for it.



    This thread is actually about history making, openly gay football player Michael Sam and tacky ESPN channel running a ridiculous "fear mongering shower campaign" (aka conservative republican style) that has nothing to do with his ability to play the game. Fear itself is the greatest enemy, not the changing times, if 'we' all were really changing, this fear based stupidity would be a thing of the past icon_rolleyes.gif
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    Aug 31, 2014 1:35 AM GMT
    scruffLA said
    atlanticshore saidI don't like being naked publicly either. Complete strangers do not need to see me naked nor do I want to see them naked



    Well, you are 18, a generation who grew up in conservative, fear and shame about the human body. Just know that your previous generations were, are, not like yours.


    I don't want some pervs looking at my body nor do I feel the need to show of my body to somebody else at the gym

    it is every persons right to feel comfortable
  • whytehot

    Posts: 1166

    Aug 31, 2014 2:03 AM GMT
    scruffLA said
    whytehot saidWhat conservative movement? People are showing off their bodies more than ever before. Just not for old cruisey gays at the gym.

    As usual these threads are full of have-beens who aren't getting any action reminiscing the good old days when they could at least look at naked guys

    Times have changed, and you have only gay culture and locker-room-themed porn to thank for it.



    This thread is actually about history making, openly gay football player Michael Sam and tacky ESPN channel running a ridiculous "fear mongering shower campaign" (aka conservative republican style) that has nothing to do with his ability to play the game. Fear itself is the greatest enemy, not the changing times, if 'we' all were really changing, this fear based stupidity would be a thing of the past icon_rolleyes.gif


    We aren't born yesterday lol; we've seen your other threads and posts about this topic... the article is just a pretext to get you started again, as proven by your own pre-amble re: "towel dance and gym shower stalls with curtains"
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    Aug 31, 2014 3:15 AM GMT
    Hey, guys.

    I was raised (many, many years ago) that male nudity is normal. I remember going out with my dad, uncle, and cousins and swimming nude in our pond. What the fuck?

    My school also allowed the guys to swim naked during PE.

    What's the deal?

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    Aug 31, 2014 3:28 AM GMT
    I think what it really boils down to is camera phones in the locker room. Men are nostalgic for the old days when they could take their own nude selfies and sext them themselves.
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    Aug 31, 2014 3:29 AM GMT
    atlanticshore said
    I don't want some pervs looking at my body nor do I feel the need to show of my body to somebody else at the gym

    And who told you "pervs" would be looking at your body? Are your teenage classmates pervs?

    Where did you get this idea? Who put it in your head? I think this is key to what we're discussing here.

    Why is there this huge generational gap in behavior? Previous US generations didn't have a problem with male social nudity. In fact, in many situations, it was mandatory, even enforced, the accepted norm. Why do YOU have a problem with it? Can you articulate your objections? Who told you to believe this?
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    Aug 31, 2014 3:30 AM GMT
    Jockbod48 saidFor guys who've played team sports in high school & college, you're totally fine with showering with your teammates, and you don't think anything of it. It's just a healthy, normal part of team camaraderie. The recent crop of towel dance shyness is just unheard of......something we never saw anyone pull.
    b5121949.jpg


    Due to my lack of group shower experience, (I was not an athletic
    kid and avoided the gym/showers at all costs) ...
    what is the "towel dance"?

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    Aug 31, 2014 4:25 AM GMT
    HydesOut2, the Towel Dance is a rather amusing bit of choreography, often painstaking in its complexity, in which a guy will do anything he can to avoid having certain parts of his anatomy exposed in the locker room. It typically involves a towel, as in pulling up underwear while said towel is still wrapped around his waist. Some even have the towel wrapped around them from under their arms, a trick learnt, no doubt, from older sisters.

    I used to do stuff like that when I was in middle school. But I was in middle school. As adults, comfort and confidence are good lessons to learn, as well as acceptance that none of us is all that special. We pretty much all have the same equipment, so what does it matter who sees what? Young, old, hot, not... who cares?

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    Aug 31, 2014 4:54 AM GMT
    BRIX saidHydesOut2, the Towel Dance is a rather amusing bit of choreography, often painstaking in its complexity, in which a guy will do anything he can to avoid having certain parts of his anatomy exposed in the locker room. It typically involves a towel, as in pulling up underwear while said towel is still wrapped around his waist. Some even have the towel wrapped around them from under their arms, a trick learnt, no doubt, from older sisters.

    I used to do stuff like that when I was in middle school. But I was in middle school. As adults, comfort and confidence are good lessons to learn, as well as acceptance that none of us is all that special. We pretty much all have the same equipment, so what does it matter who sees what? Young, old, hot, not... who cares?

    A lovely exposition, thank you.

    I underlined something we were frequently told in the 1950s, because some boys might be initially shy. Not surprising, since we were drilled by our parents not to run around the house naked when there might be guests present. Our naked bodies were a source of shame in public. And now at the Y, and in gym locker rooms in front of strangers, we were told nudity was A-OK. So we were kinda confused about this.

    And the gym coaches would bark at us: "You've all got the same equipment! You all look the same! What do you think you are, little GIRLS? Now get your clothes off!" I don't know how many times I heard those words.

    So that's the world a lot of us here grew up in. And really, a world that made more practical sense than today's US Right Wing paranoia about gay sexual assaults in locker rooms, and their promotion of extreme prudery.

    Unless it's men leering at naked women doing pole dances, or 2 women having lesbian sex together, and then it's just great. The Right Wing fixation on gay male sex is rather sick, and says more about their own sexual maladjustment than our own, of which they accuse us.
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    Aug 31, 2014 5:13 AM GMT
    In middle school, our coach Mr. Demetrician, as well as his assistant coaches, used to shower with us boys. Mr. D. was an eyefull! icon_wink.gif

    What with the Penn State scandal, I don't think that sort of thing happens anymore...
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    Aug 31, 2014 5:41 AM GMT
    bon_pan saidIn middle school, our coach Mr. Demetrician, as well as his assistant coaches, used to shower with us boys. Mr. D. was an eyefull! icon_wink.gif

    What with the Penn State scandal, I don't think that sort of thing happens anymore...

    Back in the 1950s it was an exception for boys under about 15 to see an adult man naked. Unless in their own homes, seeing their father or an older brother shaving at the sink or something.

    Our YMCA lifeguards wore suits during the boys swim period, when the boys wore no suits. But the same lifeguards were naked for the adult swim, when the men were suitless, too. There was some kind of unwritten rule that young boys shouldn't mingle with naked adult males. Not sure why, but I know it was clearly in place.

    And so many of us boys were shocked when we saw our adult summer camp counselors skinny dipping with us. Like myself, at age 9 they had never seen a naked adult male before, and didn't know they had all this hair down there, nor that they were so big.

    I never had a HS gym coach shower with us, though they would look in to make sure we were using soap and actually washing. I did have a strange encounter during a school field trip to Washington, DC in December, 1963, with a naked locker room attendant at a downtown hotel, but that's another lengthy story.
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    Aug 31, 2014 5:57 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said

    ... I did have a strange encounter during a school field trip to Washington, DC in December, 1963, with a naked locker room attendant at a downtown hotel, but that's another lengthy story.


    Something to look forward to...icon_wink.gif
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    Aug 31, 2014 6:08 AM GMT
    bon_pan said
    Art_Deco said

    ... I did have a strange encounter during a school field trip to Washington, DC in December, 1963, with a naked locker room attendant at a downtown hotel, but that's another lengthy story.

    Something to look forward to...icon_wink.gif

    It will require a separate post. I'm not sure what I should call it, or how to justify it.
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    Aug 31, 2014 8:33 AM GMT
    Art_Deco said
    atlanticshore said
    I don't want some pervs looking at my body nor do I feel the need to show of my body to somebody else at the gym

    And who told you "pervs" would be looking at your body? Are your teenage classmates pervs?

    Where did you get this idea? Who put it in your head? I think this is key to what we're discussing here.

    Why is there this huge generational gap in behavior? Previous US generations didn't have a problem with male social nudity. In fact, in many situations, it was mandatory, even enforced, the accepted norm. Why do YOU have a problem with it? Can you articulate your objections? Who told you to believe this?


    well it is not mandatory nor enforced norm, so people can actually choose not to be naked in public