Friend is Incredibly Judgmental of Guys- Advice Needed

  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Aug 31, 2014 10:33 PM GMT
    I have a friend who I'll see for lunch sometimes but until recently I didn't know had he issues around basically every man, gay or straight.

    I called him out on it when we were walking after two college aged jock types passed us by near NYU and they were talking about something. As soon as they passed and were out of earshot he said "What a pair of douchebags!" Kind of seemed to come out of the blue and I thought that was an unfair judgement and said, "Well, you don't know that... plus they were kind of hot"

    That seemed to launch him into a rant against jocks and "bro-types" saying "they" think they're better than everyone else just because they're hot and have six packs- it's ridiculous!" Plus if they are gay you need to look perfect to date them according to him. He's not bad looking so I don't know where the heck this came from, to my knowledge he wasn't really bullied in HS or as a kid...

    He then mocked them by saying "sup bro? Let's do eachother but we're totally not gay- totally killer!" I asked him how he would feel if some stranger mocked him. He said that would be unfair of them- exactly but tried to rationalize why his harsh judgements were more based on facts and past experiences.

    I tried to switch topics and asked what type of guys he thought were hot and he just said he's given up on dating since "most guys are jerks" according to him.

    Wow, really? By that logic that means all the men in his family are jerks and even more illogically that means he's also a jerk. (he certainly was acting like one all of the sudden)

    He says on the other end of the spectrum of dates he's been on "geeks have no social skills" and it doesn't matter since "gay guys just want to hook up"

    Slightly offensive since I'm not that way. I just said that wasn't true and with that attitude and all these harsh judgements he's making he stays single forever.... he's out but maybe he still has linger issues about being gay? A breakup I don't know about making him bitter? Where is this coming from?

    Plus, I'm wondering now if he's been judging me all this time.... He's not really into the bar scene and has attended some clubs and organizations to try to get out there but what he's saying about other guys has to do more about him than it does them. Maybe this is pent up frustration from his unsuccessful dates? Not sure... there's underlying issues for sure going on.

    Not really sure how to say that in a nice way and short of telling him to either see a gay friendly therapist or shift his mindset about guys in general. How would someone handle a friend like this?
  • FRE0

    Posts: 4865

    Sep 01, 2014 6:56 PM GMT
    It's unlikely that you can do much. He may have deeply ingrained problems; if so, probably he will not change unless something strongly motivates him to do so.

    There is no need to drop him unless you are unable to keep the relationship from harming you, and it could. Being continually exposed to such negative attitudes can be damaging. However, consider that he may just have been having a bad day and is not always like that.

    If he stated that many gay men want only hookups and he is having difficulty finding gay men who are not like that, he would be making a rational statements. But asserting that all gay men want only hookups can be demonstrated to be wrong.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 01, 2014 7:08 PM GMT
    He should be pretty easy to help to be honest. Keep inviting him to places and say positive things about people especially if they seemed interested in him. If he says negative stuff just react as if you didn't hear it. He is rejecting them before they reject him. He does want the invitations but doesn't want to sound desperate. As usual, alcohol is the answer icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 01, 2014 7:16 PM GMT
    Your friend is cynical. I like him. We would get along. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 01, 2014 8:20 PM GMT
    sound like a bitter gay boy problem! Lol, can you stand him anymore? If not, then just cut out the negative people in your life. Make more positive gay friends.
  • SENCGuy1

    Posts: 247

    Sep 01, 2014 8:26 PM GMT
    Your friend must be hurting to act as he does. I don't think suggesting counseling would help him since he'd most likely reject it. I agree with the poster who suggested continuing to ask him places and being a postive example. Maybe you could tell him that you've starting focusing only on the good things in life and how much it's helped you. (It does work).

    But if he's a friend, I wouldn't drop him or walk out on him without trying to help. I think you'll be glad you did.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 01, 2014 8:44 PM GMT
    Don't become a martyr. Drop him* and look for a friend who has a more positive healthy outlook on life. He won't change and you shouldn't have to become his therapist.

    * if you feel that dropping him is too harsh then gradually reduce your time with him until you get to the point where you realize the cost of dealing with the friendship is more than the value derived from it.
  • TaxiYellow

    Posts: 4

    Sep 02, 2014 2:06 AM GMT
    All these dudes saying "drop him" have got to be pretty terrible friends and if anyone I knew would be that quick to drop me, I'd be pretty incensed. Ya'll make the guy OP is talking about seem right. We all have issues and bad habits.

    Anyway. He's definitely got some issues himself. I agree with encouraging positive thoughts and interactions. Build his self-confidence up; we don't feel the need to judge people if we feel good about ourselves. icon_smile.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 3:07 AM GMT
    Don't think dropping him as a friend is the right thing to do.... That might make things worse if he is hurting from something or someone.

    TaxiYellow said Anyway. He's definitely got some issues himself. I agree with encouraging positive thoughts and interactions. Build his self-confidence up; we don't feel the need to judge people if we feel good about ourselves. icon_smile.gif


    This.

    I think that's why it bothered me, probably things going on in his life which I'm not aware of that he want's to talk about with someone and these judgements could be surfacing because of it. That's my guess anyway since this seemed to come out of nowhere and it was unlike how he usually is. Those guys seemed to trigger him so could be like another poster said rejecting them (not them specifically but guys like them) before they can reject him.

    I have some interesting insights to make to him now.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 3:56 AM GMT
    TaxiYellow saidAll these dudes saying "drop him" have got to be pretty terrible friends and if anyone I knew would be that quick to drop me, I'd be pretty incensed. Ya'll make the guy OP is talking about seem right. We all have issues and bad habits.

    Anyway. He's definitely got some issues himself. I agree with encouraging positive thoughts and interactions. Build his self-confidence up; we don't feel the need to judge people if we feel good about ourselves. icon_smile.gif

    I can count the number of friends I have with my hand. They are my real and sincere friends who are there for me when I'm moody and wanna rant, which occurs a lot lol. Actually my two female friends are both kind of cynical themselves so we kind of feed off each other. But we try to help each other through our drama. And then we get alcohol and have some fun. icon_biggrin.gif
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 4:45 AM GMT
    You say he's "not bad looking." In the gay world that's not much of compliment. Ditch him pronto!

    Now if you would have said he was smoking hot, that covers a mtitude of sins in the gay world and my advice would have been to tolerate him and his idiosyncracies. A gay boy can't have too many hot friends.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 4:58 AM GMT
    I reread this, and deleted my earlier post. Because now that I think about it, maybe he's just being a typical hypercritical New Yorker, who speaks in hyperbole. Add to that he's gay, and he's gonna exaggeratedly bitch about everything, and about every man.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 2:01 PM GMT
    I know many guys like your friend. You can't nor shouldn't try to encourage him too much. Do your part and leave the rest alone. I've talked more trash about men than your friend has I'm sure. But I'm constantly reminded that there are men out there, straight and gay, that can be trusted.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 2:24 PM GMT
    I observed one thing in my life
    If a man comments someone in front of you, it's very likely that he'll comment on you in front of someone.

    He might have had some bad experience in the past. Or maybe he's lonely and to justify himself his loneliness he began to ridicule anyone he comes across. Anything can be guessed from his attitude. But one thing is for sure...that he needs to be loved.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 2:34 PM GMT
    I have a friend like yours and when he would call someone out, for example "he's so fat" I would say- "you have no place to talk." You need to keep people like that in their place.
  • budri7

    Posts: 20

    Sep 02, 2014 3:00 PM GMT
    i would screw him and then talk to him
  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4435

    Sep 02, 2014 3:37 PM GMT
    Hey, guy. Haven't seen you here for a while. Glad you're back.

    I know a guy about your age (your friend's, too?) that used to speak that way. He was a graduate of one of the huge Universities that had an active frat scene. He felt completely closed off to it and turned off by it. At the same time he really wasn't a geek and certainly not a twink. He also wasn't out. Wasn't really awake to being gay then though I'm always surprised that that is common. (I knew very young.) I think he just threw up sub-conscience defenses to avoid dating. And developed into a pattern of thought that explained lots of things. To himself and others as well. I just started challenging him about it every time he voiced it but in a good natured way and with no intent to be his therapist. One by one he softened his verbal attitude and his feelings followed.

    Just be his buddy and enjoy the verbal jousting. He'll come around. It will just become a game for the two of you to play.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 3:49 PM GMT
    You need to call him out on his attitude as you've done in the past. I dated someone like him. It was amusing at first, but when I realized that the extent of his personality, it didn't matter how good looking I thought he was. His attitude speaks volumes about his character and his self esteem.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 6:17 PM GMT
    Art_Deco saidI reread this, and deleted my earlier post. Because now that I think about it, maybe he's just being a typical hypercritical New Yorker, who speaks in hyperbole. Add to that he's gay, and he's gonna exaggeratedly bitch about everything, and about every man.

    Lol my bff is from Brooklyn where according to her they don't say "bless your heart," they say "fuck you." She says I'd like it there. I appreciate candor instead of the fake smiles, pleasantries and avoidance. I've been trying to clean up how I say things so as to not offend people, but meh it's hard not to be blunt.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 6:44 PM GMT
    I am from the NYC area too, and I think there's a difference between honest/direct and just being a judgmental ass. My experience is that NYC'ers like people who are REAL, flaws and all, and don't put up a front. That is seen as very rude to people who grew up in a place where false pleasantries disguise the same prejudices and irritations. If a NYCer likes you, you know it, and vice-versa.

    I agree with the others who think this is a defense mechanism brought about by insecurity. I would have very little patience for it; I can't be friends with people like that, and have disentangled myself from many such folks over the years.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 7:20 PM GMT
    pazzy said
    ShiftyJK08 saidI am from the NYC area too, and I think there's a difference between honest/direct and just being a judgmental ass. My experience is that NYC'ers like people who are REAL, flaws and all, and don't put up a front. That is seen as very rude to people who grew up in a place where false pleasantries disguise the same prejudices and irritations. If a NYCer likes you, you know it, and vice-versa.

    I agree with the others who think this is a defense mechanism brought about by insecurity. I would have very little patience for it; I can't be friends with people like that, and have disentangled myself from many such folks over the years.


    are you sure you're not talking about new jersey people, breh? jersey people pretty much are exactly like that. new yorkers, at least from what i seen, don't give a fuck. they'll leave you alone. you can be a weirdo or whatever else, folks will not pay you any mind. new jersey people are nosey as all hell, will be all in your business and will even go out there way to laugh and insult you if they don't like you. there's some real cool people here BUT then there are some REAL assholes out here too. really, people have nothing better out here to do besides focus on other people mostly because jersey has nothing else better to do to focus on. that's one reason why i'm trying to move out of here into ny, pa or somewhere else. folks are miserable out here.

    it wouldn't surprise me if the OP's friend is from jersey.


    I've lived in NJ my whole life, traveled extensively, and I think the percentage of douchebags is about the same wherever you go; we haven't cornered the market.

    I have encountered a lot of these kind of people as you said described, most of them gay, and I think it is just fallout from getting kicked around as kids. Some of us cope with it better than others, as we've discussed elsewhere.

    I have family in the boros and LI too, though, and worked in the city for years. I think our regional directness is off putting to some people, but I like it. I'd rather know where I stand with someone than having them put up a pleasant false front.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 7:27 PM GMT
    I think you are already formulating your thoughts in a nice way
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 9:58 PM GMT
    To OP. You don't have to ditch your friends simply because they aren't perfect. We all need a bit of forgiveness. If you'd like him to change (it sounds like it would benefit him more than you) then call him out once in a while but mainly just lead by example. We get societal norms from our friends and we adapt to how people around us behave.

    Of course if he doesn't have any redeeming qualities then ditch the miserable bastard.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
    Log in to view his profile

    Sep 02, 2014 10:16 PM GMT
    Ravensong said
    Art_Deco saidI reread this, and deleted my earlier post. Because now that I think about it, maybe he's just being a typical hypercritical New Yorker, who speaks in hyperbole. Add to that he's gay, and he's gonna exaggeratedly bitch about everything, and about every man.

    Lol my bff is from Brooklyn where according to her they don't say "bless your heart," they say "fuck you." She says I'd like it there. I appreciate candor instead of the fake smiles, pleasantries and avoidance. I've been trying to clean up how I say things so as to not offend people, but meh it's hard not to be blunt.


    Out of all of the replies, I will say this...
    over the years, I've become quite judgmental of the guys here in my city, too. Your friend, well, anyone, has the right to feel the way they do. Me, I am very blunt; I got kicked around as a kid & it made grow a backbone and the ones who love me, know I keep it trill. Your friend must've had some very bad experiences to make him the way he does. I feel where he's coming from & yes, gay men can be some very trifling bastards. I got dumped on Valentine's Day; he lost his firm, the client he was working for owed him some serious $$$$; he was bought out by another firm & didn't get a dime for all of the work he did. I could still be incensed in how he went about treating me, but I'm letting Karma handle that. All the happiness in the world, he deserves it because he has nothing else coming to him. I still have my physique, my loved ones & I am pursuing greener pastures.

    Sit your friend down, talk with him & let him get his pent-up frustration out, hell, take him sparring! Let him know that bitterness rots the bones...I'm not letting the smug asshole with the morals of a maggot who dumped me have power over me; when I think about it, I'd rather be alone than be with someone who makes me feel alone.

    I guess that's my $0.02...
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1768

    Sep 03, 2014 6:22 AM GMT
    Hmm I understand your situation. I have an acquaintance like that though he's not rude, just set in his ways thinking that all gay men aren't good in a sense. Almost every facebook post he posts is pretty depressing to read and the times I tried to cheer him up, it just wouldn't work.

    I definitely think that your friend had some bad experiences and thus, holds onto his frustrations and takes it out on others. I think you should try to be there for him and try your best. Hopefully, he'll turn around and see that not all guys are bad. But if he's just completely unlikeable and starts treating you badly, definitely leave him.

    It's all up to you. Only you are the one who knows best and I wish you the best in your decision and I do hope your friend comes around at some time too.