Friendless because I'm a snob?

  • slowprogress

    Posts: 51

    Sep 02, 2014 3:18 AM GMT
    So I found myself with a relatively sparse social agenda this long weekend after a camping trip upstate with gay friends cancelled due to weather, and the others each managed to make alternate plans. I even had time to go on first dates with 3 guys I met online, (one of whom I didn't recognize as a frd of a frd and had to reject a second time), which got me all emo this afternoon wondering how things got this way.

    I'm originally from Sacramento, then moved to Ithaca for school for 5 years, then travelled a bit before settling in New York 3 years ago. Between all that it was hard to keep a network of close friends, especially given the emotional barrier of being closeted during all of undergrad. I see my college buddies maybe once every few months, but it's always a formal planned thing, and until recently, most of my closest frds were still in grad school.

    Friends, classmates, coworkers, etc all erronously assume I have an active social life with people other than them - because from their view, I seem to "disappear", partly because I avoid using facebook and other social media for fear of being exposed as unpopular if, say, very few people comment on my status or pictures, etc lol. Also, much more than most people, I tend to neglect connecting online with friends currently situated elsewhere, in favor of interacting in person with those who are available.

    When I came out at 22, I was hoping that I will have met the "one" by 27. Granted I entered the dating scene only after moving here, but I haven't had much experience in the dating world. I've had 2 relationships, each a few months long. I've never dated a guy through an app or dating site (not for lack of trying - friends keep telling me my standards are too high). I do better in person, and had 3-4 other flings that started with some chance encounter at a club, but those guys only had the looks, so it didn't last.

    I made my first friends here through a gay hockey league that I joined. One of them became my current closest friend, and another eventually became my first bf. I broke up with the latter after 4 months, but remained friends for another full year. During that time I met many new people and went out 3-4 times a week, but mostly through his various circles of friends. However I never got too close, as I found all of them slutty and vapid. It was easy to spend an entire weekend with them without having a single genuine conversation. They were willing to go on all-expenses-paid vacations funded by sugar daddies and insist that the generosity is platonic (I declined, and my suggestions that they knew better was condemned as cynical). They are willing to hang out with people who have totally scammed another friend, even the victim himself, just for the sake of having more connections. I yearned for better quality friends, and my ex knew it, accusing me of silently judging them and sticking around just to use them as stepping stones to connect me with more worthy individuals. Some of his friends told him I was a snob.

    He even wrote an 8 page letter imploring me to change my paternalistic ways, and suggested that the truth is less important than people's feelings. I argued that I would love for everyone to treat me with the same honesty that I treat them. I kept his letter in case my view changes when I become his age (he's 5 years older).

    My views did soften over time, but not before our differences led to a falling out (he said he couldn't be around me without feeling inferior), and we haven't hung out regularly for nearly a year now. I left the group, taking with me a small group of mutual, newish friends who were by then closer with me. My remaining friends have more balanced lives with careers (most of the others could only hold retail/service since they party so much) but weren't all that different from the original group; they love RuPaul, squirm at outdoor activities, miss the big parties, and occasionally hang out with my ex's group without me, acting very guiltily after each time haha.

    Except for my closest friend, who's been the only one always available to hang out with me and have honest conversations with... but to a limit, because as much as he loathes even our current group of friends (their interests/culture, not personally) and aspires to be better than the village gays, he still has the same habits of constantly hooking up, then complains about not finding love, yet is too sensitive for advice that questions his habits, hence I find his company kinda depressing sometimes.

    We've tried a couple other gay sports leagues - but weren't satisfied with the quality of poeple. I thought of reconnecting more with my college friends who have finally returned to New York, but worry that they'll pity me for having failed to make quality friends in the ensuing years. I regret jumping into the gay scene and not having a more balanced social life. The tension with my ex has diffused overtime, but because of his popularity, I've gained a reputation, within what seems like a very small gay community, of being that asshole snob who dumped him really hard (he had asked for an honest explanation and I gently obliged, not realizing it was one of those situations where I was still supposed to lie), and I can sense it in the way my friends seem to exclude me when hanging out with guys they assume I'd think less of. I just have the urge to move somewhere new and start fresh.
  • AMoonHawk

    Posts: 11421

    Sep 02, 2014 3:22 AM GMT
    try yoga
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    Sep 02, 2014 4:56 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidtry yoga

    LOL, OMG...that's like when someone sends a person 5 text messages in a row, and they respond with, "okay".

    As for the OP...I'm just not understanding the jist of YOUR dilemma, but I do KNOW the dilemma in general. I myself wouldn't say I'm 'friendless', but this weekend I had no plans. No one asked me to a BBQ, and I don't have any family here. I spent Christmas and New Years in almost the same predicament...and if I don't make plans to visit family, most every major 'family' holiday ends up being the same. Maybe I'll go to a bar with a friend, but to me that's not really making use of the weekend. That's just drowning out your sorrows and today I felt like crap all day. It's depressing to say the least, but the thing is...we're not alone.

    With me, I CHOOSE to be a little friendless sometimes. It sucks to feel friendless, but at the same I can say 99% of the 'friend' selection in Denver, I could care less to be friends with. I rather just fucking do me. I'm going to San francisco this week, and I don't need any friends to help fund my shit. A lot of these guys out here TALK about wanting to be in a relationship, but yet they don't want to fucking put forth any effort into one. They just fucking cheap, you go out somewhere they don't even want to try and impress you...yet when you put the effort, they fucking ungrateful. I don't have time for the bullshit.

    You might want to try a change of location. I find that after 2-3 years in a city, the gay scene for a single man stops being productive. You eventually end up in a vicious cycle of drugs/partying, promiscuous sex, and getting nowhere. I can't see how some people live year after year dealing with the same bullshit.
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    Sep 02, 2014 5:00 AM GMT
    Ah, the internet. That miraculous database which lets us simply enter all of our attributes and preferences and effortlessly, efficiently, zeroes in on all those digitally-confirmed compatible soul mates out there.

    Of which there are none.
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    Sep 02, 2014 5:05 AM GMT
    Totally understand OP's situation. It's mind-blowingly frustrating how poorly my gay friends stack up against my straight friends in every way, but then again they're your connection to other guys until you meet that special someone. My perspective is to fake it until you make it. Living an authentic life requires a bit more martyrdom than I'm willing to take on
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    Sep 02, 2014 5:51 AM GMT
    aloneintheworld said
    When I came out at 22, I was hoping that I will have met the "one" by 27.

    Of all the stuff you wrote, that struck me as the most revealing. "By 27"? Why not 28? Or 26? Isn't 26 your age now? How'd you come up with that exact number, of 27? And did you mark it on a calendar?

    Could it be you're a bit too uptight, and need to relax a little, go with the flow more? Maybe what others see in you isn't genuine snobbery, but an internal tension, even obsessiveness, that you'd benefit by losing, lightening up a tad.

    As for your catalogue of faults your friends have, I can list lots about mine, too. People aren't perfect. But I am selective, and only a few enter my "inner circle" of closest friends. Those with whom I'm most comfortable at all times.

    It can take a while to acquire such special friends. It won't always happen by age 27, just like you may not find "the one" by then, either. Until then you make do with what you have, although naturally we avoid truly bad friends.

    Sometimes we attract the friends we do because of who WE are, a reflection of ourselves. We think we pick our friends, but that's only half true, because they're picking us, too. Your ex wrote you "an 8-page letter"? I've never had an ex write me ANY letter. I also find that revealing.

    I'm not convinced you're actually a snob, though of course I've haven't met you, and seen you "in action". Rather, you may be overly critical (a common trait with gay men), and overly detailed in areas where details have the least application. And perhaps a bit controlling, too. Those are not traits amendable to acquiring and keeping friends.
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    Sep 02, 2014 6:51 AM GMT
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 02, 2014 8:01 AM GMT
    Start with new friends.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 02, 2014 1:58 PM GMT
    gay man friends for a gay man
    like a straight man having a girl as a best friend.

    If your not going to date them toss them to the curb.
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    Sep 02, 2014 3:27 PM GMT
    kevex saidtl;dr

  • Destinharbor

    Posts: 4913

    Sep 02, 2014 3:57 PM GMT
    You are a snob. You basically called all your friends low rent and worthless. Usually a snob has reason to feel superior but in your case you whore just like you accuse them of doing (evidence your quickie dates when your weekend plans fell apart). Listen, Cornell, (which really isn't a true Ivy but a State school), start living an authentic life and stop being a sex club regular and try to judge people by their merits with understanding that their backgrounds may have given them fewer advantages, advantages that you should be grateful for, not judgmental of others. If you can't figure out how to find quality people you like, it is most likely because those people don't want to know you. Grow up.
  • SilverRRCloud

    Posts: 901

    Sep 02, 2014 5:16 PM GMT
    Having high standards dictates quality over quality. You have called your shots. Agree that having a dynamic social life is not on the cards for you.

    I find the socializing bit largely overrated these days.

    A friend of sorts has just written expressing her deepest sorrow over the fact that her very affluent and friendly neighbors who used to invite her spontaneously to fancy lunches with wine have just moved out of their gated community. No one cares to invite her anymoreicon_rolleyes.gif

    I believe that limiting yourself to a specifically defined group of people invariably ends up as being counterproductive.

    I have a group of friends who are mostly about work and business. I am in touch with them, and we meet over the drinks, dinners, lunches, etc., and talk shop.

    I also have a group of your usual gay guys who are all about going out, having NSA fun, talking the usual daily gay drama. I know where to find them if I feel like it.

    I also know a few guys who are very much into intellectual pursuits, and who are happy to have a meaningful conversation over a home-cooked dinner.

    I clearly stop short of expecting that the intellectuals will get thrilled talking the night-club exploits, just as much as I do not expect the shop-minded folks to start developing interest in the latest on the philosophy of the language.

    I'll gladly admit that some of the people I know do not share my moral values but are happy to uphold theirs. I have evolved to being very tolerant towards them. I also reject the notion of being anyone's moral guardian.

    Last but not least, I have developed a very good leech radar, and have absolutely no problem in telling those people that they are wasting their time with me.

  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 02, 2014 6:15 PM GMT
    You're getting a lot of harsh responses. I'm relatively new to this site as well, and have found that posting in the forums is like bleeding in the attracts sharks. Only here, you can choose to block or ignore the sharks at the stroke of a key.

    I don't think the issue really has anything to do with you being a snob. You're just looking for gay men that you have something in common with. Actually, this site could be a way
    for you to meet like-minded guys.

    Through viewing member's postings on the forums, and checking out their profiles, you can weed out men you don't care for, and send messages and possibly connect with the guys who have something to say that you agree with.

    Good luck!

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    Sep 02, 2014 11:05 PM GMT
    Your ex wrote a 8 page letter to ask you to change? Lol that's intense. Well, what I learned with gay friends is that you mesh with some, you don't mesh with some. Some can be snobby and judgmental as fuck. Lol, yes I've had good some straight college friends. Some of them are married and move on though. I realize that I do need to make more new gay friends and make more circle of connections but it's just hard sometimes. Lol Oh well, act less judgmental and snobby and try to accept people for who they are in the future.
  • BloodFlame

    Posts: 1829

    Sep 03, 2014 4:56 AM GMT
    I can understand slightly where you are coming from in the sense of not finding people you connect with. Only difference, I'm a little younger. But yeah, I have to agree a bit with Pazzy. If you're talking about friends in general, why not try to meet some non gay friends as well? I'm not saying you should stop making gay friends but don't rule out non gay people either. Friends are about finding at least a few things in common. Like for example, you like sports I'm sure so along with gay sports groups, why not join a non gay one too. Don't go for the sole purpose of meeting 'special" friends, but rather people. You may find a best friend who happens to be straight. As for gay people, well... No one is perfect. I feel that as long as you find something to like about a friend, it should work out. But I also heard that large metropolitan areas have a more fast-nit lifestyle so people are always in a hurry and unfortunately, may pass up chances to meet new friends. My advice here is just be patient and keep trying.

    You live in the mecca of Gay central so I'm very surprised you're not having much luck but something tells me you're looking in the gay nightlife avenue which yeah, could be fun but it's not surprising you're not finding much people of substance other than looks and materialism but again, try not to be too harsh on those you meet in it. I can understand not wanting to hang around people who use others as stepping stones, I try to avoid that myself as it just creates a rather negative atmosphere so I don't blame you for avoiding these types of people.

    And not to nitpick but you seemed to use "quality" people a lot so what do you mean by this exactly? Is it looks? Personality? etc. If it's looks, you have to learn to give some people a break. I mean, if you're looking for friends only,it shouldn't matter too much. I can understand if you wouldn't want to be around someone with bad hygiene and whatnot but yeah, I'm just saying. Don't judge too harshly on looks when it comes to friends because if you do, it's not surprising if you seem to run into a trail of good looking but snarky type guys.

    So I'd just do this first. What would you like in a friend? What would make a good friend to you? What compromises can you make? Once you have that figured, that might help. And if you feel a move would be best, go for it and start anew. I hope this all helped and good luck.
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    Sep 03, 2014 3:51 PM GMT
    Never apologize or second-guess yourself for having - and keeping - high standards, no matter the context. I've found that times spent alone are far more preferable to times spent where and with whom I'd rather not be, and in that sense, not the usual one, "absence makes the heart grow fonder." And don't worry about being labeled "judgmental." However we got them, divinely or otherwise, we were given brains to think with and to make judgments on everything. You sound like an intelligent, educated guy with a good set of core principles, so stick by them w/o isolating yourself, be optimistic, and you'll be fine.
  • Posted by a hidden member.
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    Sep 03, 2014 9:38 PM GMT
    Where can I buy the Cliff Notes?
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    Sep 03, 2014 11:31 PM GMT
    GOD YOU ARE BORING AND LONG WINDED. icon_neutral.gif
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    Sep 04, 2014 12:55 AM GMT
    UndercoverMan saidWhere can I buy the Cliff Notes?

    They went out of business when this site was created!
  • craycraydoesd...

    Posts: 856

    Sep 04, 2014 1:22 AM GMT
    Sounds like first world problems to me. You seem to have no trouble scoring dates. You already have friends including some close ones, but want "better". And your "popular" ex cares enough to find time to write you an 8-page letter... I sure as hell didn't have any ex write ME a letter
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    Sep 04, 2014 5:03 AM GMT
    Hey, I only saw your headline, very intriguing, but I'm wondering why you would publicly describe yourself as a snob which is something most Americans would automatically hate given our history of founding an entire country based on fighting against what was thought as the snobbish British crown? Just curious.
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    Sep 05, 2014 12:04 AM GMT
    Why is this tirade here?

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    Sep 05, 2014 12:14 AM GMT
    Is there a question?
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    Sep 05, 2014 3:08 AM GMT
    AMoonHawk saidtry yoga

    GEt Bent

    OP if you knew the list of personality traits I find to annoying to facilitate conversation...

    yet, I found a guy and managed to keep him for many years. A empirical reality, as impossible as it is to ignore his multitude of imperfections.

  • Daniepwils

    Posts: 151

    Sep 10, 2014 4:16 PM GMT
    Why limit your friends to just gay ones? Most of my true friends are straight. I do have a few true gay friends as well.

    But my question to you is where are you meeting these friends? Most of those gay sports leagues are just guys sleeping around with each other...Yes the sport itself is fun but don't get caught up in all that (which by the sounds of it you aren't). Try socializing somewhere other than where gays frequent...sorry but just being honest. What about your neighbors? Is there a LAMDA Chapter near you? Try joining a non-gay sports league.

    Start going to events and happy hours. Start doing charity/volunteer work. There are so many different avenues you can try.